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Tayrod
24-08-2011, 09:18
As far as I can tell there's really no rule stating that you need to place the squigs first in a squig herd. For instance, if I play a squig horde, I could technically use 10 goblins in the first rank, followed by 10 squigs, 10 squigs, 10 goblins, 10 goblins, etc. This would ensure that all casualities in close combat were goblins (who are removed from the back) and would keep our squigs alive a lot longer, when facing off things like swordmasters. Of course, by doing so, you lose out on 20 WS4, STR5 attacks in the first rank. But your 3-times-as-expensive-as-Night-Goblins squigs will stay around beyond the first round of combat (providing steadfast).

My question is thus:

1) Is this possible? Or has it been FAQ'ed, It seems highly unfluffy to rank squigs behind their herders, but I can't seem to find a rule to this effect. Enlighten me :)

2) Can I redress the squigs to the first rank when I reform?

And one question for the general discussion guys:
3) Is it valid from a strategical point of view.. losing out on 20 str 5 attacks sure is alot.

Yrrdead
24-08-2011, 09:30
1.) Also can't find a rule/faq/errata that says no. Seems valid.

2.) Yep

3.) This seems like a bad idea so I'm not sure why you would want to do this. Most people are not using this unit for steadfast. Though I suppose a unit with mainly all Herders with an "invulnerable" second rank of squigs is the point.

Grupax
24-08-2011, 09:35
basicly you create an immune to psych unit of night goblins
with the only difference being that you have no command or nets and instead of fanatics you get loads of str5 supporting attacks :D

I tested it on several occasions not that gamebreaking though and not really cool looking either. lot of times the squigs allmost all died becouse of template weapons/spells :D

T10
24-08-2011, 09:48
2) Can I redress the squigs to the first rank when I reform?


No. You may not take models out of contact with the enemy (unless you are moving them into contact with the same or a different enemy).

If you have a front-to-front combat your Squigs cannot move forward until you start running out of Night Goblins.

-T10

Tayrod
24-08-2011, 09:55
1.)
3.) This seems like a bad idea so I'm not sure why you would want to do this. Most people are not using this unit for steadfast. Though I suppose a unit with mainly all Herders with an "invulnerable" second rank of squigs is the point.

Well, I was thinking it might work against strong elite armies, with a lot of good but fragile troops. For instance, if I go toe to toe with a big block of swordmasters they are going to have 31 strikes at me, this will equate rougly 20ish something dead models on my part ( I dont have my calculator on me right now), If I now place the squigs in the second rank, all the dead guys are goblins, and I will be free to strike back and kill about 11-12 Swordmasters with my 20 squigs attacks, and 10 goblins. Since I have an "unlimited" supply of gobboes, I can use this unit to grind swordmasters (or white lions, etc) into the dust, theoretically.

If the front rank is Squigs, most of the squigs will be gone by the time I get to attack, and I will be striking back with nothing but goblins.

Avian
24-08-2011, 10:08
What if you face something less deadly. Then you get a bunch of weedy gobbo attacks and all the Squigs who could be in the front with their 2 S5 attacks are in the back where the achieve much less.

I can sort of see the point and in some specialised cases it might be useful, but I think spending a bit extra to get more Squigs and putting them all where they can fight actually does more in most cases. It's not as if Squigs are all that more costly than goblins.

Tayrod
24-08-2011, 10:29
I can abselutely see your point Avian, this is a highly specialised formation for a highly specialised situation ;)

Iniesta
24-08-2011, 11:34
I find a minimum herd of 10, with 9 herders and 1 squig in second rank useful. Its only 35 points for a immune to psychology diverter(s). If its not shot at before combat its only herders killed and the squig gets to step forward and do two str 5 attacks. + give a small D6 str5 blast to at least 1 unit,sometimes more.
It also help you control deployment more and i often play a refused flank tactic going for a win rather than to try to annhilate all of my opponents army.

Harwammer
24-08-2011, 11:34
My question for squig herds is what are the minimum number of squigs you must include? 0+? 1+? 2+ squigs? The rules rules don't seem to directly specify. I've always gone with 1 minimum when writing lists.

I'd imagine A unit of 10 ITP night goblins (cheap!) could have its uses. Even 9 goblins with 1 squig finds work (and has the potential to squig bomb).

drear
24-08-2011, 12:38
i cant see it worth it. id rather have 40 squig than havine some goblins that wont run away =/

Harwammer
24-08-2011, 12:40
Regardless of if it is 'worth it' the rules question stands :) besides you can't buy 40 squigs for 30-35 points.

Mercules
24-08-2011, 13:11
I've seen people do it to kill the Goblins so the Squig Herd goes wild. MSU Squig Herd units charging into you preceded by Mangler Squigs and trailed by Fanatics can chew up your battle line fairly well.

drear
24-08-2011, 13:15
if the goblins die the unit explodes sadly . no more wild squigglies.

i just cant see why youd use a special slot for taking goblins . just grab a bajillion in the form of night goblins .
squig should be used for hitting units with heavy armour and eating through them.

Mercules
24-08-2011, 13:51
if the goblins die the unit explodes sadly . no more wild squigglies.

i just cant see why youd use a special slot for taking goblins . just grab a bajillion in the form of night goblins .
squig should be used for hitting units with heavy armour and eating through them.

Exploding is called, Squigs Go Wild. :) It's basically a low cost suicide bomber squad. They hit the opposing unit which wipes out the goblins. The remaining Squigs get to strike in this round and next round and hopefully by then the goblins are all gone and a squig remains. Then the unit blows up dealing D6 S5 hits to all the units in range.

Cost? Roughly 100 points. Results? Variable.

Harwammer
24-08-2011, 15:59
i just cant see why youd use a special slot for taking goblinsI think a small immune to psychology unit is an interesting throwaway. It can operate outside the general/bsb range (unlike trolls) and be very cheap. Slightly screwed over by animosity for this role though.

Also the slot system was removed. Spending 35 points on 9 goblins + 1 squig is barely going to scratch your special points allowance (0-50%).

stashman
24-08-2011, 19:38
Exploding is called, Squigs Go Wild. :) It's basically a low cost suicide bomber squad. They hit the opposing unit which wipes out the goblins. The remaining Squigs get to strike in this round and next round and hopefully by then the goblins are all gone and a squig remains. Then the unit blows up dealing D6 S5 hits to all the units in range.

Cost? Roughly 100 points. Results? Variable.

Instantly when the herders are dead, the squigs go wild, so you can't hit back with a unit where only squigs are left.

Mercules
24-08-2011, 19:46
I don't have the 8th book on me, but I thought it said something about, "If at the start of their combat phase...." I'll Double check once I get home.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
24-08-2011, 19:58
I know you're mostly talking about the legality/effectiveness of such a unit, but I'd just like to say that it seems pretty unfluffy to me, and Orcs and Goblins players are nothing if not background enthusiast (normally). I guess you could try to argue the goblins in front are running away from the squigs, but really it just doesn't make sense to me from a background perspective.

Yrrdead
24-08-2011, 20:10
I don't have the 8th book on me, but I thought it said something about, "If at the start of their combat phase...." I'll Double check once I get home.

It is any time as he says.


Squigs Go Wild: If the unit flees, or if at any time there are only Squigs left alive in the unit with no Herders,[...]

Mercules
24-08-2011, 20:43
It is any time as he says.

Even better! You can just toss 5 Goblins in the front and charge. They have to strike the goblins and when the 5 die the Squigs go wild. Now you can keep the unit as cheap as possible while still having the bomb.

Fusarius
24-08-2011, 20:51
you do not need any squigs as per the rules, and the squigs will still go wild when the unit breaks.

three 30 pt conga lines of doom that do d6 s5 to all units within 2d6 when they run is broken but funny ;)

Yrrdead
24-08-2011, 20:57
I like it.

Harwammer
24-08-2011, 21:46
you do not need any squigs as per the rules,I've found my rulebook and it says 'Squig Herds are composed of both Night Goblins ans Squigs'. Does this infer at army selection the SH units must contain squigs?


[you do not need any squigs] and the squigs will still go wild when the unit breaks.I'd be tempted to argue the rule being called 'Squigs Go Wild' is close to a de facto requirement of the unit to contain squig based life forms with which to go wild!

Tayrod
25-08-2011, 09:33
even so, a single squig is very few points, 9 gobboes and a squig could be fun..

Fusarius
25-08-2011, 18:42
I'd be tempted to argue the rule being called 'Squigs Go Wild' is close to a de facto requirement of the unit to contain squig based life forms with which to go wild!

there is only a minimum req for herders as far as i have seen, it is breaking the rules to do that (take no squigs in a herd unit) and unsportsmanly.

but it would be super funny to have three units run up, break from combat and asplode all over your enemies units :)

a:"what? how does that unit of ten night goblins do that?"

b:"they're squig herds, they explode when they lose combat"

a:" wait, where are the squigs??"

b:"um... under their cloaks???"

NTJ2010
25-08-2011, 19:48
Very beardy but I suppose it's legal (although it won't always work since if the small unit of goblins is simply killed outright (unless you include one beast in the back)

H33D
27-08-2011, 05:16
For 250 points you can get a horde of 50 models including 10 goblins in the front rank, 10 squigs in the second and third ranks, and 10 more goblins in each of the last two ranks. Then you get a single WS2 S3 attack and 2 WS4 S5 attacks per file in contact with the enemy to the front. This would also make it so you don't lose squigs until after you lose 20 goblins.

TMATK
27-08-2011, 15:27
...
I'd be tempted to argue the rule being called 'Squigs Go Wild' is close to a de facto requirement of the unit to contain squig based life forms with which to go wild!

I could have swore they FAQ'd the rule as such. Did I imagine it, or was it in the 1st 8th FAQ for the old army book?

Fusarius
31-08-2011, 06:37
I have not seen it faq'd yet.

It is a very good point to have a squig in the back! I like it!

Tayrod
01-09-2011, 21:30
Quick! Let's use it before the FAQ man comes!

ScytheSwathe
01-09-2011, 22:30
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490009a&prodId=prod1400043
Second from left.

there is a goblin with a bomb you could use (one of the blood bowl secret weapons) So you could justify your all goblin unit blowing up after all!