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View Full Version : 2400 Skaven list for you all to rip to shreds.



kris.sherriff
25-08-2011, 01:39
Hi all,
Have been chipping away painting some the Skaven that I have had around the place for a while and though I should actually make an army list so that I can get some table time in with them. So, here it goes;

Lords
Gray Seer, Bell, Dispel Scroll
Warlord, Worlds Edge armour, Shield, Biting Blade

Heroes
BsB, Armour of Slivered Steel, Rat hound body guard
Warlock, Lev 1, Condenser, Ruby Ring

Core
24 Slaves, Shields, Mus, Champ
39 Clanrats, Full command, Spears, Shields, Warp Fire thrower
29 Stormvirmin, Full command, Flamy banner, Ratling gun

Special
6 Gutter runners, slings, poison
8 Jazzails
4 Rat ogars, 2 packmasters

Rare
A-bomb, warpstone spikes
doomwheel
cannon

C&C people?

Cheers
Kris

Jolly Puggles
25-08-2011, 02:15
*rip shred tear* ;)

Seriously though, I'm not quite sure what I dislike about this list. It lacks...focus. And numbers.

6 Gutter Runners is a lot of points to spend on a largely insignificant unit. You've got a Seer and a Ruby Ring Warlock; between them alone you've got more than enough firepower to take out the warmachines and solos that would be the sole target of those Gutter Runners. I'd drop them completely.

Split the Jezzers into 2 units of 4 and get a Sharpshooter for each. Trust me, the extra point of BS is invaluable. The Jezzail is too good a weapon to waste BS:3 on, so get as many Sharpshooters as you can!

4 Rat Ogres is either going to be a vaguely useful flanking unit or a waste of points. You'll find that you get very mixed results out of them. Drop them or don't...myself, I'd make the unit bigger (I'd double it to be precise) or drop it completely.

Don't give Slaves Shields...it defeats the point of Slaves. Spend the points on more Slaves instead, you'll get better results. If you must equip Slaves with something, give them Spears (so they kill more stuff in CC) or Slings (which is usually enough of a shock to your opponent that it will throw them off their game temporarily, through the sheer number of shots you can muster from a Sling Slave unit!).

DON'T TAKE A RATLING GUN!!!!! Seriously, they're terrible (and far too reliable for my liking!). Spend an extra 10pts for the upgrade to PW-Mortar. You won't regret it.

Hmm...Rat Hound is probably a waste of a few points. Spend them on something else (like a couple of extra Slaves...if in doubt or you have 'spare' points, always add more Slaves. You can't go wrong!).

Biting Blade is another cheapy item that can probably be left on the shelf. If you want Armour Piercing, you might as well fork out for the Razor Standard and get it for a whole unit, including the Character. If you want to keep your Warlords' points down, take a Halberd or Great Weapon instead...you lose the Shield in CC, but either will snag you better results than a Biting Blade (and saves a point or two).

Apart from that, you've got an Abom, Wheel and Cannon, backed up by a Bell, so you're not going to struggle against most opponents.

Personally, I like to average 10pts or less per model, so at 2,400pts I'd be fielding at least 200 Core Troop models...you have barely 100 in you entire army. In all honesty, though, your army would probably knock mine all over the shop!

russellmoo
25-08-2011, 04:12
24 slaves=speed bump-

Try 50, you can take shields if you like, but drop the champ-

If you like the ratling gun take it- however, the mortar and the warpfire thrower are better

give your warlord the fellblade- just because- seriously though- either keep him as cheap as possible, or kit him to actually kill stuff, so trade in the biting blade for either a great weapon, or if you want to be fancy, try a blade of corruption, or warlock enhanced weapon-

I agree with the above regarding jezzails- or possibly drop them to get more bodies on the table-

For the rat ogres- I assume 4 is all you have- if you are intent on running them run them in two units- 1x2- think of them kind of like chariots when being used this way-

kris.sherriff
25-08-2011, 10:58
Thanks for the input guys,

I had honestly not though of running the Rat Ogres in 2 2's, will give it a play test that way I think.
For the Warlord I did just want to keep him cheap I may go enchanted shield and sword of might instead?

I think I am going to leave the Jezzails as is for now purly because they are finished and are a reliable way of knocking a few wounds off some monsters.

I could drop the Gutter runners but I always like to have a scouting unit, could drop the slings to save some points?

Weapon team wise I only have those two and don't really want to spend any more cash.

I think my plan with the list was to kill as much as possible at range to get a head on points and then not loose everything in combat. And try to counter stuff with the Abomb and Ogras.

Any more C&C?

Cheers
Kris

tmarichards
25-08-2011, 22:53
Rather than keep the warlord cheap, I would ask- what is even his purpose? Why not drop him altogether?

Same goes for the kit on the BSB, why not just try to keep him out of combat with a champion to take any flying challenges off him? Giving him the Storm Banner would help you more I think.

Ruby Ring over Doomrocket?

The Bell has, in my experience, done precisely nothing. I don't rate it at all, whereas playing against a plague furnace makes me have kittens in terror.

kris.sherriff
25-08-2011, 23:42
Rather than keep the warlord cheap, I would ask- what is even his purpose? Why not drop him altogether?

He is there to give a bit of punch to the storm vermin. A chieften could probubly do just as good a job for less points but I like the extra attack?


Same goes for the kit on the BSB, why not just try to keep him out of combat with a champion to take any flying challenges off him? Giving him the Storm Banner would help you more I think.

In my experiance unless you have a mobile bunker it is relativly easy to chase down a bsb. I also think that the Storm Banner would hinder my list more than help it?


Ruby Ring over Doomrocket?

Usefull from turn 1, is not one use only, ranged flaming attack and fits in the points with the warp energy condenser?


The Bell has, in my experience, done precisely nothing. I don't rate it at all, whereas playing against a plague furnace makes me have kittens in terror.

This point I entirly agree on, the Bell does not a lot most of the time but it gives me unbrakable clanrats, is harder to kill then a furnace, protects my seer, gives him an 18 inch leadership bubble, provides magic res for a unit and means that I don't have to field plauge monks as I am not a fan of the models.

Cheers

Kris

Jolly Puggles
26-08-2011, 02:03
He is there to give a bit of punch to the storm vermin. A chieften could probubly do just as good a job for less points but I like the extra attack?

The Warlord is definitely a viable upgrade on a Chieftain...the extra attack is nice, but the real bonus is the extra Leadership. With the Bell in the Clanrats, you Warlord+Stormvermin can rampage around the flanks, clearing up stragglers without having to worry about staying close to the Grey Seer (who I presume is the General?) for Ld:10. Enchanted Shield + Sword of Might is cheap, but doesn't really get you anything much better than World's Edge Armour and a Halberd for the same points ballpark and the latter might just save your Warlord if he does bite something big. If he's really there for extra "punch" though, I recommend a mundane Shield and Blade of Corruption...it's a couple of extra points but the Multiple Wounds from the BoC has won me more than one combat and with your high Initiative can spring a surprise kill in a Challenge (that depends on who you're fighting against though).


In my experiance unless you have a mobile bunker it is relativly easy to chase down a bsb. I also think that the Storm Banner would hinder my list more than help it?

Storm Banner is over-rated by most. Any Skaven list that has more than one Weapon Team, Jezzails or a WLC will probably be hindered more than helped by the Storm Banner...the Skaven shooting phase is risky enough without the possibility of a Storm Banner further ruining your day. In my experience, giving your BSB a Magic Banner is usually more worthwhile than protecting him...he auto-dies if the unit he's in breaks, so give your troops a boost rather than saving his sorry butt is usually a safe bet. The Razor Standard, if you haven't already given it to your Stormvermin, is always quite nice. If he's going in that unit with the Bell then the Ranger Standard could spring a surprise move through difficult terrain that your opponent wasn't expecting (who ever moves a Bell through Difficult Terrain?). If you're feeling really saucy, the Sacred Standard of the Horned Rat could really make your day (and/or ruin your opponents, depending on which way you want to look at it!) by forcing re-rolls on the Fear test from the Bell. It's a little pricey though.


Usefull from turn 1, is not one use only, ranged flaming attack and fits in the points with the warp energy condenser?

The Ruby Ring is everything you say and I've often considered using it myself. It is slightly more reliable than the Doomrocket. But...there really is nothing quite like getting a direct hit with a Doomrocket! Large template S:5 hits is very tasty. If you are going to take the Ruby Ring, I suggest putting it on a non-spellcaster. Not only does it spread your casting around a bit, but it means that even if you suffer horrendous fatalities from the Miscast Gods, you'll still have something going off in the magic phase. Still, it's swings and roundabouts, 'cos you won't be able to use the ring if the wielder's in combat, so it's your call really.


This point I entirly agree on, the Bell does not a lot most of the time but it gives me unbrakable clanrats, is harder to kill then a furnace, protects my seer, gives him an 18 inch leadership bubble, provides magic res for a unit and means that I don't have to field plauge monks as I am not a fan of the models.

The Bell is a lot of points, but I think you've summed up the reasons it's worth those points. The effects of Ringing the Bell are not usually that impressive, but the 15 extra bodies it provides in a unit are alone worth about 75pts, MR:2 as a Talisman would set you back another 30pts and a 4+ Ward for the Seer is another 45pts. 40pts for the Rat Ogre and we're already approaching the 200pt mark we payed for it without considering the Impact Hits, Bell effects or giving the unit Unbreakable. All told it's a worthwhile investment as a unit upgrade, so long as the unit pushing it is worth upgrading...you're probably wasting points putting a Bell in a tiny unit and 40 is pushing the boundaries on what counts as a "tiny" unit. I'd advise bumping the numbers on those Clanrats up to 50 or even 60 to make it worth the points putting the Bell in there.

kris.sherriff
09-09-2011, 17:24
Hi all,
I have still been chipping away at the skaven and thinking about the army list but have now had a couple of test games using the following list.

Grayseer, Dispel Scroll, Bell

Warlord, Shield, Blade of Corruption

Warlock Engineer, Level 1, Condenser, Doom Rocket

Chieften, BsB, Dragon Helm, Ruby Ring

44 Clan Rats,Full Command, Shields, Spears, Ratling Gun
29 Storm Vermin, Full Command, Banner of Flamy attacks, Warp fire thrower
30 Slaves, Mus

2 Ratogers, 1 pack master
2 Ratogers, 1 Pack master
4 Jezzeils, Sharpshooter
4 Jezzeils, Sharpshooter
5 Gutter runners, Slings, Posion

Abomb
Wheel
Cannon

The list seems to work OK.

I have played once against a Skaven army with 2 wheels, 2 Cannons, 3 Warlocks and 3 ratling guns and chaff. Dispite losing the grayseer turn one and the bell itself turn two I got a draw in my favour in that game and even then it was dice in the last turn stopping me getting the win. (could not knock the last wound off a single ratogre with a fireball and lightning from the doomwheel. Had he died I would have got a win.

The second game I have played was against the new Ogres and was not looking forward to it having to be on a 4x4! With a bit of tricksy charge blocking and enforcement of the 1 inch rule I got the win but would like to play the game again on a bigger table to see how it would have gone down with a bit more room for us both to deploy and manoeuvres.

Ah well.

The list seems like it works how expected it to in that if something scary makes it to combat and the Abomb or Wheel is not around to deal with it it is going to be a hard game. Not had a chance to cast the dreaded thirteenth spell yet either!

C&C?

Cheers
Kris