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LemonPotato
10-04-2006, 14:38
I need help on tactics to use the black coach effectively, it just ends up dying all the time to shooting because it is a large target or dies to combat resolution. I have tried shielding it with a unit of dire wolves and charging out but it tends to get bogged down even when supported. I always try to charge it in with at least my unit of 3 spirit host but ideally my big zombie unit but then the zombies die and the coach then to combat resolution. Even a unit of 6 wolves in the flank tend to just die, T3+No armour and then the coach crumbles. If i charge it on its own it dies, how do I win with this thing!?!?!

Any tips to using this very expensive chariot will be greatly appreciated because at this rate it will be replaced by a new giant.

Thanks
LemonPotato

gukal
10-04-2006, 15:12
Its commonly accepted that the black coach doesn't have very good rules. A 200-point chariot is a big risk since so many armies can field S7 attacks on warmachines or fast-attack heroes.

I love the model and field it whenever I can though.

I find it does best in my very large magic-heavy Zombie/Necromancer army where I move cautiously for the turn 4 terror checks and turn 5/6 charges. Get the zombies stuck in - then bring the coach out from cover.

It also performs decently in my low-magic knight-heavy army for serious combined charges on turn 3.

If you also like the model, field it and have a back-up plan for when you face cannons (because it will be destroyed almost every time).

- Gukal

LemonPotato
10-04-2006, 15:55
Hmm, haven't actually tried black knights in my vampire counts army yet. Would a unit of 5 with the coach hit hard enough or should i get 10 for a rank and with war banner to build decent combat resolution.

Stouty
10-04-2006, 16:08
You haven't tried blac knights yet :o

They are the main hammer unit of the vampire counts, teamed up with a coash and you can deal a pretty hefty blow. 10 with a vampire thrall or wight lord with a coach on the flank to rid the enemy of their rank bonus will do you a world of good. Unit strength 22 with a rank, standard and a flank. Possibly outnumber.

Very few things will hold up to it, but the coach wavers on it's own.

Senbei
11-04-2006, 15:14
I don't use black nights often or Vampires.... I use. Zombies - most under rated troop in the list. Still... for a troop that always strikes last and is un-upgradable.... they should be cheaper. Field a couple of max size blocks of the fellows and give them a Wight lord... I used to field blocks of 40... Very funy to watch Dwarves flee from them on a regular basis... (on another note, anyone else here think Fear is too powerful against small units of elite troops and of less use against opponents like large units of LD 5 Goblinoids ?)

Stouty
11-04-2006, 15:28
(on another note, anyone else here think Fear is too powerful against small units of elite troops and of less use against opponents like large units of LD 5 Goblinoids ?)

Yes, I've never been a fan of that; the fact that elves are more likely to auto-break than goblins, but it would be difficult to fix the mechanic.

Gaius Marius
11-04-2006, 15:31
The other thing about the black coach is that it causes Terror. You can run the Coach way off on a flank, away from the other sides general and good leadership. Don't try to kill rank and file units with it, but remember that it causes terror tests and has unit weight to remove ranks in a flank charge. In other words it can be a flank distraction/threat all by itself.

Oh, and Black Knights in a Block of 10 with a banner of the Barrows rocks on a lance charge, it is a bonus if you have the hreo slot open for a Wight Hero as well.

GREEN IS DA BEST
11-04-2006, 15:35
What i do with my black coach is just move it along with my troops and use it as a supporting charge...or charge it into small units of say crossbowmen for some easy points because if the opponent is smart they will put them in one row at most 2 and they wont get alot of attacks back at you if any and you auto break them. Then you should be behind their line and able to turn around and rear charge.

Hope that helps.

English 2000
11-04-2006, 17:23
When I still had a black coach I would charge it in with skellies wearing light armour and carrying shields.

The coach does the damage on the charge, the skellies absorb the hits that come back your way with their 4+ saves. You should win and likely outumber.

Zombies won't work as well because they are easier to kill.

Obviously you have to be careful about what you charge. 4+ saves mean squat against troops with great weapons.

You can also use your troops to tie enemy units up. Charge the coach in, to tip the balance.

If the enemy fails the terror test you have infantry in position to catch them as they break. If they pass the terror test the damage from the coach should enable you to win the combat.

None of these are reliable tactics because of the random nature of impact hits. But that's life.

MarcoPollo
11-04-2006, 21:17
My buddy used to use Ghouls in mutual support on a flank. The ghouls could flee from a charge to open up a counter charge from the black coach. More often than not, I would allow the combo run up and down a flank and minimize their damage. Having the coach behind enemy lines is a bad idea and I would try to minimize the coaches movement whenever I could. So, the coach was a real huge support to those nasty ghouls and thus allowed two options to get stuck in with alot of CR on a flank. Impact hits and poision really do wonders for CR, that's for sure.

shadowprince
12-04-2006, 05:42
you don't shield it, besides it is a large target and that wouldn't work anyway, what you do is crash it into the front of a unit, than slam the flank with dire wolfs or black nights.

Alco Engineer
12-04-2006, 06:07
I like to keep it behind terrain to start with. I usually back it up with a unit of zombies.

I must admit in 1 game I had, it managed to get rid of nearly a thrid of my opponents army.....and didn't even get into combat!

I was playing against gobbos, and it had 6 fanatics launched at it. It survived with 2 wounds left. Then it had bolt throwers hammer into it. I was surrounded by fanatics, so I couldn't charge without being smashed, so I maneuvered close to one of the units that had sent fanatics at me. At the start of his turn he tested for terror and broke, then when panic came into play the turn after, he lost his general, and a bolt thrower and his stone thrower. Simply taking out his general meant that I now owned the magic phase making life a lot easier for me :evilgrin:

I do like the black coach. It usually doesn't perform spectacularly, but it does distract my opponent and is a bit of fun too.