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Andy p
29-08-2011, 04:24
Ok so this may seem premature considering the book isnt even out yet, but upon inspection of the latest white dwarf it mentions the rumoured chill rule in the section that is pimping off the new monsters.

Now im curious, the words for this rule say that any enemy models within 6" have always strikes last.

That's fine, but does this mean if I am in combat with say....a unit of 100 night goblins, (and by gum dont they seem to be popping up everywhere these days), does that mean I need to measure in a 6" radius around the blasted thing? Thereby slowing some but excluding others?

Surely it would be better if it was just units around the creature rather than models? I mean it's 6 inches, chances are if you are getting slowed down by it, it's probably SITTING RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU!!!

This rule just seems...well sloppy and will probably become unnecessarily complex in big combats.

Anyhow I hope this is just a typo, or else I imagine you are going to get a lot of threads like this one in the next few weeks. :cries:

Tzeentch Lover
29-08-2011, 04:27
Yeah. I hope it's a typo in the WD. It's going to be rather frustrating measuring 6" to each model in a unit.

T10
29-08-2011, 08:17
It would only actually affect models in a position to strike, so even with a unit of one trillion million Night Goblins you should be able to quickly discount a large number of models.

-T10

Avian
29-08-2011, 08:30
Giving otherwise identical models in a unit different strike order (or other differences, for that matter) is a daft rule to include and likely to cause arguments about just which models were killed and how this affects return attacks.

You could for example have a model who has already attacked at, say, Initiative 3, but then due to casualty removal it ends up in a position to fight last. Then you had to remember that this model has already attacked.

T10
29-08-2011, 08:59
I don't think that would be an issue, assuming that the effect is in fact continuous rather than immediate. E.g.: "All models within range have the Always Strike Last special rule until the casters next Magic phase" as opposed to "All models that are within range right now have the Always Strike Last special rule in their next round of combat".

When it is time for the Initiative 3 models to strike, you measure and find that, say 3 models are unaffected and 7 models are unaffected, so 3 models get to fight. Any Initiative 3 models that "step up" into their position later would miss their chance to attack.

When it tis time for the "Always Strike Last" models to fight you measure again and find that, due to casualties, only 4 are affected. These four models get to fight.

This should work nicely since models are, as ever, removed from the rear. The affected models would remain in position, or possibly be replaced in case of slain characters/champions.

Avian
29-08-2011, 09:10
Example off the top of my head:

Unit of Beastmen Gor. Front rank models are within range, second rank are not. Second ranker behind champion attacks at In3. At In2, the champion is killed by Ogres, so the second ranker steps up. When it comes time for the last-strikers, that model should now strike again but it has already attacked.

T10
29-08-2011, 10:42
Sure, it's a situation that can likely occur. But the bulk of the unit will at least function "normally" and the comparatively minor matter of models being replaced will either be covered by the spell, or easily resolved by the players.

jtrowell
29-08-2011, 13:01
I was under the impression that it affects *units* in range, not models.

T10
29-08-2011, 13:15
This is what we have to work with right now:

Now im curious, the words for this rule say that any enemy models within 6" have always strikes last.


-T10

Surgency
29-08-2011, 13:34
Example off the top of my head:

Unit of Beastmen Gor. Front rank models are within range, second rank are not. Second ranker behind champion attacks at In3. At In2, the champion is killed by Ogres, so the second ranker steps up. When it comes time for the last-strikers, that model should now strike again but it has already attacked.

Doesn't the Third Ranked Gor also step into the second rank? He would take the place of the model that already fought, right? Or you could just say that the third ranked gor pushed his way to the first rank while the second was occupied with whatever was in front of them?

SkawtheFalconer
29-08-2011, 16:29
This is what we have to work with right now

Exactly. Have this debate when the army book is out.

Avian
29-08-2011, 17:24
Doesn't the Third Ranked Gor also step into the second rank?
Maybe there was no third rank Gor.

Linoosthelost
31-08-2011, 10:13
Itīs models within 6"

popisdead
02-09-2011, 20:26
The affected models would remain in position, or possibly be replaced in case of slain characters/champions.

I think I am confusing what you are talking about but what about Sword of Swift Slaying on a Minotaur champion? The ASL cancels out the ASF so he's Init 3, at Init 2 an Ogre kills him, then he is replaced with a Minotaur from the third rank (not Horde formation) and he is ASL.

Korraz
02-09-2011, 20:49
The replacing Minotaur would be able to attack. He hasn't attacked yet and would attack at Ini 0.
As usual, the answer is "There is no answer. Do the reasonable thing. Models that already have attacked shouldn't attack again. If dispute, roll D6."