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Da Black Gobbo
29-08-2011, 23:29
Hi everyone! now that the final rules (rumored for a while though) of the Thundertusk and Stonehorn are out, what do you think about them?

I'm personally impressed about the Thundertusk, is a toolbox full of tricks to support the army, a Catapult, a debuff for every enemy, some shots from the riders and decent CC power, 4 attacks+ 6 attacks from the ogres and thunderstomp, the only downside is its big size and the magnetisation of cannon balls, but o well is a really nice model and when i start my ogres i'll field one to support ogres and ironguts.

The stonehorn is hard as nails but appart from that it doesn't bring anything new to the army, it hits hard, but so does a decen Irongut unit or some mournfangs.

What do you think?

Coldblood666
30-08-2011, 01:42
I'll most likely use one of each. But yea the Mournfangs are much better for the points so I plan on using a lot of them too.

minionboy
30-08-2011, 05:46
The always strike last rule will be very nice, though it will take an FAQ to answer if it affects whole units partially in that range or if it is indeed each individual model, which would be a pain to measure.

nagash42
30-08-2011, 06:14
a cannon ball will mess up a unit of mournfangs easier then the stonehorn so it will get to battle less messed up?

Scammel
30-08-2011, 06:32
Most people seem to have written off the Stonehorn, but for me it still has one important factor going for it - it hits hard. I mean, it actually hits the foe, rather than having to use the rather poor Ogre WS. 3D3 impact hits will make short work of large single models/small units, whereas most other Ogre units would see half of it's attacks just disappear immediately.

Nubl0
30-08-2011, 07:11
I intend to get 2 thundertusks and atleast one stonehorn for the awesome model. In all honestly though the stonehorn brings the pain, which the army already does really well, the thundertusk however is amazing with its arua and stonethrower shots. I garuntee the stonehorn will be golden vs the likes of elves though where their high int will be no defence.

stampy
30-08-2011, 07:35
I'm thinking for 2000pts:

2 Thundertusks (or 2 more Stonehorns - undecided on which to take at minute)
1 Stonehorn with hunter
Firebelly
2 units of 3 mournfangs
fill rest with core pts requirements

Why pick between the beasts when you can have all of them?

Characters will be a squeeze for pts allowance but going by this months white dwarf, should be doable.

Da Black Gobbo
30-08-2011, 11:27
The thing is that always strike last will murder DE, imagine your humble 12 bulls charging a unit of 18 Black Guard, If you charge, you'll be loosing lots of models, but with a little help from our furry friend, your ogres suddendly make 4 impact hits (asuming no good roll on charge :D) 3 dead bodies, add (with fists) 29 attacks, 14 hits, 10 wounds, 8 dead guys (with average to low luck) now you have 7 flimsy elite elves ready to do a couple of wounds and run scared like the little girls they really are. Maybe the Stonehorn could do this on his own too but i don't know why, but i love sinergy.

Chaos Undecided
30-08-2011, 13:15
I think you summed them up pretty well the Thundertusk is more a support unit that can loiter around behind the front line and pelt the enemy with missile attacks whilst its aura causes havoc for any nearby combats. The Stonehorns just designed to leave a bloody hole in your opponents battle line and quite difficult to stop in the process which I guess is handy in itself if your opponent is focussed away from the rest of your army.

Gaargod
30-08-2011, 13:33
The stonehorn doesn't really fill any roles a unit of mournfangs or ironguts couldn't do. It's a heavy hitter, nothing else really (with a hunter on top, its a bit different, but that's going to be too many hero points to be viable in most armies).

The thundertusk does, to be fair. It still hits competently hard, and has some nice tricks too.

Consider further - you're, realistically, going to want at least 1, probably 2 Ironblasters. Those things are stupid hard for 170pts. By the time you've taken 2 of them, you can just about squeeze one thundertusk into 2250, if you wished.

Citadel97501
31-08-2011, 23:45
I would like to point out how awesome the Stone Horn will be against Dwarves & Empire. Suddenly they need 3 cannons hitting one stone horn to have a good chance to kill one, leaving your others to go unmolested long enough to get into combat ie stomping all over artillery tactics.

Da Black Gobbo
01-09-2011, 12:10
But the Thundertusk brings a lot of help against lots and lots of enemys plus having a decent catapult, BTW the catapult does d3 wounds to everyone or just the one on the center?

Morax
01-09-2011, 12:24
The thundertusk is easily protected from cannon fire. Most imperial gunners rely on the bonuce to hit the intended target and, although the base of the thundertusk is huge, that is unlikely to change. Simply place some ogres between the cannon and the thundertusk and the cannon then has to bounce through a bunch of ogres first. With the new rules of "Who's Been Hit?" the cannon would have to kill all of the intervening ogres to get a shot at the thundertusk. Not a sure thing but a way to add some survivability to a thundertusk for a crafty ogre general against a gun line.

Confessor_Atol
01-09-2011, 16:19
That's a great observation Morax. I imagine the thundertusk wil always be behind bulls. However, this does not protect against the stone thrower shots........

I'm still struggeling to decide though because, as black gobo pointed out, the Stone horn hits devistatingly hard. While we have other units that do too, this type of redundency really makes target selection difficult for you enemy. This will allow one (if not many) of your hard hittings units to make it to your enemy's line and wreck-shop. Add this to scouting maneaters, mornfangs, and vanguarding cat+hunter, and they just will not know where to shoot first.

Vsurma
01-09-2011, 17:33
I am not convinced putting ogres in front will be beneficial.

With the length of the beast if the opponent wants to hit the beast it won't be too hard.

Also now they get the option of trying to hit some ogres to the front as well. It might work, or you might lose 2-3 ogres and get the beast hit.

Still a tactic worth considering..

GodOfRandom
01-09-2011, 17:55
I havent seen the rules, but I think Thnertusk is easile countered by warmachines, Stonehorn is MUCH harder to kill, cause he halves the amount of wounds from multi wound shots. Maybe this makes it sometimes better than mounfangs.

goinggreen
01-09-2011, 18:08
I think the only way to figure this out is to try each of them out in several games (yes I will do this) both models are awesome so I don't mind buying 2 of them. The way I look at this is:

Stone horn, hits really hard and is a huge target, great for assaulting a huge unit of something on its own.

Thundertusk is more subtle, and is a support unit. Great for softening a unit with the stone thrower and the aura of frost will make sure a unit of whatever will get stuck in.

They are both circumstantial to whatever you need in your army.

loveless
01-09-2011, 20:22
The Stonehorn looks scary, but a savvy opponent is going to blast away the Thundertusk(s) before they get too close to his lines.

You'll have to work on target priority to keep it safe, but I'm not sure there are much more important targets than the giant walking stone thrower with the ASL bubble. Mournfangs might work well as a diversion, as well as "surprise!" Maneaters.

The Satyr
01-09-2011, 20:29
The Stonehorn looks scary, but a savvy opponent is going to blast away the Thundertusk(s) before they get too close to his lines.

You'll have to work on target priority to keep it safe, but I'm not sure there are much more important targets than the giant walking stone thrower with the ASL bubble. Mournfangs might work well as a diversion, as well as "surprise!" Maneaters.Yes but between scouting Man eaters and ambushing Gorgers they wont have long to blast them b4 something nasty is upon them.

loveless
01-09-2011, 20:36
Yes but between scouting Man eaters and ambushing Gorgers they wont have long to blast them b4 something nasty is upon them.

That was effectively my point lol. I left out Gorgers because...well, I'm not paying money for something that looks like that.

The Thundertusk is a support piece that needs support - it's tough to hide and easy to shoot, so you need to be sure you're putting in higher-priority targets to get it where it needs to be - near melee.

Da Black Gobbo
02-09-2011, 11:02
Gorgers are hideous models, but, you can field a Clawed fiend instead. Anyways with the right positioning it would be difficult to get a straight shot, Put your big block of ogres on a side but a bit ahead, and right in front of the Thunder get your ironguts smaller hammer unit. I got to see the codex yesterday and i manage to do something like this:

--Slaughter master: Armour of Silvered Steel, dispell scroll.

--Bruiser: BSB banner of discipline, heavy armour, ironfist.

--Firebelly: Great weapon, fellheart.

--12 Ogres: Full command, iron fists gnoblar thingie.

--6 Iron guts: Full command, gnoblar thingie.

--1 Gorger (i don't remember it's cost but i think i can get it for just under 100 points could be mistaken)

--3 Leadbelchers.

--Thundertusk.

--Iron Blaster.

And there it is, i think is pretty supportive army, with the magnificent new lore (whatever people say) some fire support, some stuff to shut magic off (scroll, fellheart)
Some shooting (a cannon a catapult a bolt thrower and some lead belchers as cherry on the top. Nice combat block+support block+thundertusk and an anoying element, clawed fiend, i mean gorger, gorger it is. To upgrade it for a 2.5k battle i'd add some Mournfangs, like a unit of 6 and some other add.

What do you think?

Jim
02-09-2011, 11:33
On a slightly unrelated note - isn't it a good sign that there are no obvious choices between the two?

Seems like GW did a good job on the internal balance here...

Jim

GodOfRandom
02-09-2011, 11:41
Good point, Jim.

This situation looks really similat to Tomb Kings' Warsphinx and Necrosphinx

AussieSocks
02-09-2011, 15:10
Except that the Tomb King Rare slot is so choked up with Heirotitans and Caskets (and Catapults) while the Thundercrushing+stomping+breathing Warsphinx is like some terrifying undead hydra makes the war-sphinx a pretty obvious choice.

I think the Stonehorn may be a more common appearance because people will fill the rares with Ironblasters. With the ability to get stonehorns into Hero slots, i think they may be more common.

Personally i will be using Two hand weapon ogres combined with the Thundertusk.

Originally i was a fan of Great-weapons all over the place, but the ability for ogres to chop up whole elf units now before they can strike will be too good to pass up.

That is.... if we survive the purple sun.....

isotope99
02-09-2011, 15:41
Originally i was a fan of Great-weapons all over the place, but the ability for ogres to chop up whole elf units now before they can strike will be too good to pass up.

That is.... if we survive the purple sun.....

I may be wrong but I thought ASL cancels out ASF rather than overiding it so high Init elves would still strike first, they just wouldn't get their re-roll to hit?

Is the HE rule a special case or am I just misreading the rules?

Da Black Gobbo
02-09-2011, 15:44
I may be wrong but I thought ASL cancels out ASF rather than overiding it so high Init elves would still strike first, they just wouldn't get their re-roll to hit?

Is the HE rule a special case or am I just misreading the rules?

I think they will strike in initiative order, unless they have great weapons. Canceling one to each other and then aplying normal rules, strike in I order and stuff.

popisdead
02-09-2011, 20:05
The one that breaths ASL is the better of the two but the Stonehorn looks bdass!!!!

Jericho
02-09-2011, 21:53
I may be wrong but I thought ASL cancels out ASF rather than overiding it so high Init elves would still strike first, they just wouldn't get their re-roll to hit?

Is the HE rule a special case or am I just misreading the rules?
If ASL aura cancels out SoA entirely, then I assume the great weapons would force them to strike last, rather than on Initiative. This was one of the first things that popped into my head upon reading the rules. The models vs. units within 6" thing is also a sticky issue.

FAQ for the FAQ God :D

Da Black Gobbo
03-09-2011, 13:04
Yep we'll have to pray to the great FAQer to FAQ the rules, and let's hope he doesn't FAQ us too!!