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View Full Version : Woo! Phalanx and cover!



FlashGordon
31-08-2011, 17:09
http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/phalanx.html
It looks sweet! :D

Promethius
03-09-2011, 10:21
What a rubbish picture. Looks like a Ramilies star fort rather than a moon sized space ship, which is what phalanx is. An illustration of phalanx could have been awesome.

shadowhawk2008
03-09-2011, 18:14
And who says the Ramillies isnt based off the Phalanx?

Promethius
03-09-2011, 19:47
And who says the Ramillies isnt based off the Phalanx?

There's no mention of it in the Ramilies fluff, and the ramilies is a stationary space station that can be moved with tugs. It's also got no room for engines in its quadrant design. Wheras the phalanx is a space ship which moves under its own power.

The bearded one
03-09-2011, 19:54
We don't know the scale of the picture though. Those little blibs around it could be the size of battlebarges for all we know.. :p

bound for glory
04-09-2011, 01:21
well, i'm looking forword to it. love me some soul drinkers...even if its the last we'll read of them.:mad:

MajorWesJanson
04-09-2011, 18:02
There's no mention of it in the Ramilies fluff, and the ramilies is a stationary space station that can be moved with tugs. It's also got no room for engines in its quadrant design.


Below? It moves up relative to the observer? Look at Atlantis on Stargate.

shadowhawk2008
04-09-2011, 19:33
There's no mention of it in the Ramilies fluff, and the ramilies is a stationary space station that can be moved with tugs. It's also got no room for engines in its quadrant design. Wheras the phalanx is a space ship which moves under its own power.

Background is changed all the time. Considering the outward design similarities between the two, I would say that the Ramillies is just a scaled-down version of the Phalanx, and a little more restricted for obvious reasons. Imagine a rogue Imperial Governor or a Chaos Warband or whatever which takes over one (or more) if these and just goes on a rampage throughout several subsectors.

FlashGordon
04-09-2011, 19:59
well, i'm looking forword to it. love me some soul drinkers...even if its the last we'll read of them.:mad:

I hope it is not the end! That would be a shame.

Joewrightgm
05-09-2011, 02:59
I guess I've never understood this series. I have the omnibus, and I forced myself to read the first book, made it two chapters into the next in the book, but I couldn't care less about the characters or what they've done.

According to the blurb there, they're on trial. The Hell? When did the Adeptus Astartes gain a sense of mercy? Their librarian turned into a giant mutant spider and killed the chapter master before leading a war on a demon world in the name of a demon prince.

Huron wants to expand his chapter and he gets shot with a melta point blank and chased into the maelstrom; But a librarian tainted and mutated by the warp, murdering their chapter master and leading an unholy war on a demon world, then killing Imperial servants? Let's give this one some merit, it really isn't as bad as it sounds . . .

shadowhawk2008
05-09-2011, 07:14
You haven't read the first book with any clarity it seems.

The Soul Drinkers who sided with Sarpedon did so because of what they (probably not all of them were with him to reclaim the Soulspear) had been through on that space station and because of how they had been betrayed by the Mechanicus and the ineptness of the Guard (?) officer in charge of the operation.

They were censured by the Inquisition while the Mechanicus got off scot-free. Sure, it turns out later that the Mechanicus forces in question had been duped by a Tzeentchian daemon but the Soul Drinkers were totally unaware of this.

They also didn't go to fight Vi'Meth in the name of said daemon. They did it in their own interests.

As for the trial process. Vladimir Pugh isn't like most other chapter masters or astartes it seems. Even the trial isn't so fair as it sounds because all the people the Soul Drinkers have pissed off since going renegade are there howling for blood. The deck is totally stacked against them.

As for the Astartes getting a sense of mercy. The same thing happened with the Mantis Warriors in Goto's short story Trial of the Mantis Warriors and it is what happens in IA10 at the end of the Badab War when the Executioners, Lamenters and the Mantis Warriors are judged by a court of their peers.

Huron also did far, far worse things than the Soul Drinkers have yet done.

Joewrightgm
05-09-2011, 20:50
Huron also did far, far worse things than the Soul Drinkers have yet done.

Your probably right about the first book; its been so long, its dimly remembered, but I didn't enjoy the book enough to really remember more than a basic outline of event.

as for the Astral Claws: You mean like killing Imperial servants, allies and openly accepting the open mutation of their brothers? At least the Astral Claws drew the line at open mutation.

True about the Mantis warriors, and even the rest of the Badab renegades, were shown 'mercy' of a 100 year penitent crusade after the investigation found out it was out of hubris and mis-directed loyalty they did it. Not because their giant-mutant-spider-chapter-master-murdering chief librarian told them too! ;)

Seriously not trying to troll here (even though it sounds like it!). I'm at a lack for reading material lately, and I may actually read the omnibus again to see what I missed.

I think I just found it really weird that these space marines were openly mutating and it never seemed to cross their mind (from what I hazily remember) that "Oh Jesus we're mutating! Huh, no going back now is there gents? Death to the False Emperor!"

bound for glory
05-09-2011, 22:49
very sadly, the entry for phalanx says its the last in the series...

shadowhawk2008
06-09-2011, 07:23
Your probably right about the first book; its been so long, its dimly remembered, but I didn't enjoy the book enough to really remember more than a basic outline of event.

as for the Astral Claws: You mean like killing Imperial servants, allies and openly accepting the open mutation of their brothers? At least the Astral Claws drew the line at open mutation.

True about the Mantis warriors, and even the rest of the Badab renegades, were shown 'mercy' of a 100 year penitent crusade after the investigation found out it was out of hubris and mis-directed loyalty they did it. Not because their giant-mutant-spider-chapter-master-murdering chief librarian told them too! ;)

Seriously not trying to troll here (even though it sounds like it!). I'm at a lack for reading material lately, and I may actually read the omnibus again to see what I missed.

I think I just found it really weird that these space marines were openly mutating and it never seemed to cross their mind (from what I hazily remember) that "Oh Jesus we're mutating! Huh, no going back now is there gents? Death to the False Emperor!"

The SD didn't seek to expand their numbers beyond the established 1000. They didn't plunge an entire sector (re: Maelstrom Zone) into war with another sector. They didn't start pirate raids on Imperial shipping (as the AC are supposed to have done). They didn't drag 3 other chapters with them into "heresy" and revolt. They didn't secretly absorb the remnants of a successor chapter into their numbers (granted they don't have successors apparently). They didn't cause a big who-ha with the High Lords. They didn't declare fiefdom over an entire sector. They didn't take the PDF/Guard forces of an entire sector and put them under their direct control. They didn't take the gene-seed of another chapter and use it for their own gains. They didn't defame the Imperial symbols on their wargear as far as I remember.

The SD were also driven by Sarpedon's own philosophy of following in the ideals of the Emperor, not the bureaucrats on Terra. Hence why they sort of accepted their mutation until they found they were being manipulated by a daemon, after which they sought to cure their mutations, the point of the second book.

*Just giving a counter-argument and not really derailing the thread* but all of this does have an effect on the "trial proceedings" in Phalanx insofar as the prosecutors are fairly unwilling to listen to them.

Mr_Foulscumm
14-09-2011, 12:24
I hope it is not the end! That would be a shame.

Shame is the opposite of the word I would have used.

Anyway, isn't this just the story that they published in Hammer and Bolter?

shadowhawk2008
14-09-2011, 12:42
It is being serialized in H&B. The full thing will be available later.

Mr_Foulscumm
14-09-2011, 13:47
Yeah, so it's the same story. Oh well, good for the people that like series but don't like ebooks.

FlashGordon
15-09-2011, 16:14
Shame is the opposite of the word I would have used
And why are you telling me this? and why should i care?


Yeah, so it's the same story. Oh well, good for the people that like series but don't like ebooks.

Well its not a ebook.

Col. Tartleton
15-09-2011, 16:23
The entire series is dumb. Luckily the Soul Drinkers aren't actually Sons of Dorn. It's just one big conspiracy after another.

shadowhawk2008
15-09-2011, 17:13
The entire series is dumb. Luckily the Soul Drinkers aren't actually Sons of Dorn. It's just one big conspiracy after another.

Gene-seed identification by the Angels Sanguine confirms they are not.

Vivia
17-09-2011, 13:23
Omg, I read your spoiler and I shouldn't have done it! It's a shocking revelation and kind of nice too.

shadowhawk2008
17-09-2011, 13:36
One of the funniest moments in the novel so far have been when the Crimson Fist Captain, Reinez, calls the Angels Sanguine Captain, Gethsemor, a popinjay. That was a good laugh ;)

Vivia
17-09-2011, 13:42
(Had to look that in the dictionary.)

It sounds accurate as far as I'm concerned. Bring it on Crimson Fist! :)

shadowhawk2008
17-09-2011, 13:45
*Leaves expletives regarding said Crimson Fist unsaid.*

Vivia
17-09-2011, 14:04
Those levelheaded Crimson Fists, they should go and do "other" things. :skull:

Goosey_J
26-09-2011, 23:11
The SD didn't seek to expand their numbers beyond the established 1000. They didn't plunge an entire sector (re: Maelstrom Zone) into war with another sector. They didn't start pirate raids on Imperial shipping (as the AC are supposed to have done). They didn't drag 3 other chapters with them into "heresy" and revolt. They didn't secretly absorb the remnants of a successor chapter into their numbers (granted they don't have successors apparently). They didn't cause a big who-ha with the High Lords. They didn't declare fiefdom over an entire sector. They didn't take the PDF/Guard forces of an entire sector and put them under their direct control. They didn't take the gene-seed of another chapter and use it for their own gains. They didn't defame the Imperial symbols on their wargear as far as I remember.

The SD were also driven by Sarpedon's own philosophy of following in the ideals of the Emperor, not the bureaucrats on Terra. Hence why they sort of accepted their mutation until they found they were being manipulated by a daemon, after which they sought to cure their mutations, the point of the second book.

Still, they did (however unwittingly) dance to the machinations of a Chaos daemon, suffer widespread mutation and murder their chapter master, which is pretty much an 'instant death' sort of scenario in the eyes of the current Imperium. There's not really a lot of wriggle room in their whole 'purge the alien, the mutant, the heretic' way of thinking.

Realistically, it's not a stretch to imagine a chapter as pious and righteous as the Imperial Fists taking one look at old Spidery McEightlegs and burning him to crispy cinders right then and there. In fact, that's a much more plausible outcome then the whole 'WE MUST GIVE THEM A TRIAL' scenario that Ben I-can't-write-a-decent-book-to-save-my-life Counter seems to have cooked up for them.

bound for glory
27-09-2011, 01:50
thats your opinion, buddy. there are many who like the series. you don't, thats fine. you mock the book, even tho you most likely hav'nt read it. fine again. but who are you to attack ben counters books? what have YOU had published? yeah. thats what i thought...

Sephiroth
27-09-2011, 07:22
One of the funniest moments in the novel so far have been when the Crimson Fist Captain, Reinez, calls the Angels Sanguine Captain, Gethsemor, a popinjay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3VI4SZemrM&hd=1). That was a good laugh ;)

:eek: *Monocle pop'd*

Well, I do say, such foul language! :mad:

shadowhawk2008
27-09-2011, 08:59
Still, they did (however unwittingly) dance to the machinations of a Chaos daemon, suffer widespread mutation and murder their chapter master, which is pretty much an 'instant death' sort of scenario in the eyes of the current Imperium. There's not really a lot of wriggle room in their whole 'purge the alien, the mutant, the heretic' way of thinking.

Realistically, it's not a stretch to imagine a chapter as pious and righteous as the Imperial Fists taking one look at old Spidery McEightlegs and burning him to crispy cinders right then and there. In fact, that's a much more plausible outcome then the whole 'WE MUST GIVE THEM A TRIAL' scenario that Ben I-can't-write-a-decent-book-to-save-my-life Counter seems to have cooked up for them.

You know, that happens so much in the background. Doesn't mean it is conclusive to any degree. Just because a chapter was unknowingly manipulated by a Greater Daemon doesn't mean they get served a death sentence.

Eisenhorn did that for quite a while.

As for murdering the Gorgoleon, it would be murder if he had been killed in cold blood. But he wasn't. He was killed in an honour duel. The end.

They also didn't suffer mutations until after the internal chapter war, by which point they had already been declared Excommunicate.

As for the trial/killing them all outright. There is an important consideration here. And that is, what makes a chapter that was once as revered and respected as the Soul Drinkers fall to Chaos. I am sure that the same question was asked of the Astral Claws at the end of the Badab War, but by then they had done so much worse than the Soul Drinkers that the judgement of "kill-on-sight" was inevitable. There was no wiggle room there.

But there is wiggle room here. Purely because even though Inquisitor Kolgo and the Sister Superior from the second novel are present at the trial, the trial is being held aboard the Phalanx by the Imperial Fists. Because of their status as a First Founding chapter, and because they have such close ties with so many worlds and organizations and individuals in the Imperium, they get away with quite a bit.

But what I said above is what still holds here. That is the entire point of Vladimir Pugh's decision to hold said trial.

Goosey_J
27-09-2011, 22:56
thats your opinion, buddy. there are many who like the series. you don't, thats fine. you mock the book, even tho you most likely hav'nt read it. fine again. but who are you to attack ben counters books? what have YOU had published? yeah. thats what i thought...

That line of argument doesn't stand up mate. Having an opinion on creative works does not require one to have invested any time in creating anything at all, it merely requires one to be informed as to the subject they're discussing. By your line of reasoning all opera critics must have performed in an opera, all film critics must have directed a film etc. It doesn't quite work like that.

But since you've had a personal dig at me I'll tell you who I am to criticise a work of badly written science fiction. For a start I'm someone who's read the first 4 books of this abysmal series. I'm also someone who owns and whose read a great deal of Black Library books. In fact you could broaden that statement to someone that's been reading science fiction and fantasy books for the last 15 years by authors of varying competence (most of which who can write better then Ben Counter). Finally, and least importantly, I'm someone who has a first class honours degree in Creative Writing, with a cousin who's a thrice published author and several friends who all work within the UK publishing industry. None of which is particularly relevant to me having an opinion on a series of books I consider to be poorly written, but since you wanted to know who I was to dare have such an opinion, I thought I'd let you know.


You know, that happens so much in the background. Doesn't mean it is conclusive to any degree. Just because a chapter was unknowingly manipulated by a Greater Daemon doesn't mean they get served a death sentence.

Eisenhorn did that for quite a while.

As for murdering the Gorgoleon, it would be murder if he had been killed in cold blood. But he wasn't. He was killed in an honour duel. The end.

They also didn't suffer mutations until after the internal chapter war, by which point they had already been declared Excommunicate.

As for the trial/killing them all outright. There is an important consideration here. And that is, what makes a chapter that was once as revered and respected as the Soul Drinkers fall to Chaos. I am sure that the same question was asked of the Astral Claws at the end of the Badab War, but by then they had done so much worse than the Soul Drinkers that the judgement of "kill-on-sight" was inevitable. There was no wiggle room there.

But there is wiggle room here. Purely because even though Inquisitor Kolgo and the Sister Superior from the second novel are present at the trial, the trial is being held aboard the Phalanx by the Imperial Fists. Because of their status as a First Founding chapter, and because they have such close ties with so many worlds and organizations and individuals in the Imperium, they get away with quite a bit.

But what I said above is what still holds here. That is the entire point of Vladimir Pugh's decision to hold said trial.

Eloquently argued and all fair points. My main gripe here is the mutation aspect. As I've already stated, the Imperial Fists are a particularly pious and righteous chapter (the Black Templars came out of them, for one), and I really have a hard time imagining them doing anything but executing mutants on the spot. Maybe if we we're talking about the Ultramarines or the Salamanders or any other chapter with a degree of tolerance (let alone benevolence), it wouldn't be so bad, but we're not. We're talking about masochistic zealots that believe they failed the Emperor and seek to cleanse just about anything (themselves included) in order to redeem themselves.

If Benny boy decides to go the route of 'we're giving you a trial to hear your story but then we're going to kill you anyway', that'd be more acceptable then 'should we let the renegade spider mutant live' path. But still, it is a hefty stretch of the imagination to even perceive that level of tolerance within the Imperial Fists chapter.

Wintertooth
28-09-2011, 00:00
It's not a trial in the sense of ascertaining guilt or innocence. It's a trial to make sure they've been found guilty of their every sin against the Imperium, because they can only execute them once.

Pugh wants the stain of a Successor's heresy cleansed from the Imperial Fists, by every crime being seen to be condemned and punished. Not because there's any doubt the guy with spider legs is a Warp-corrupted heretic who's going to be incinerated after the verdict is delivered.


But since you've had a personal dig at me I'll tell you who I am to criticise a work of badly written science fiction. For a start I'm someone who's read the first 4 books of this abysmal series. I'm also someone who owns and whose read a great deal of Black Library books. In fact you could broaden that statement to someone that's been reading science fiction and fantasy books for the last 15 years by authors of varying competence (most of which who can write better then Ben Counter). Finally, and least importantly, I'm someone who has a first class honours degree in Creative Writing, with a cousin who's a thrice published author and several friends who all work within the UK publishing industry. None of which is particularly relevant to me having an opinion on a series of books I consider to be poorly written, but since you wanted to know who I was to dare have such an opinion, I thought I'd let you know.

But you haven't read this book? Back in your box then.

Goosey_J
28-09-2011, 01:37
But you haven't read this book? Back in your box then.

... Because it's not out?

Phalanx - Ben Counter - April 2012

Herp.

shadowhawk2008
28-09-2011, 07:09
Have you read Trial of the Mantis Warriors in the Legends anthology? It essentially tackles the same problem, the only difference being that the trial wasn't as hostile, the chapter master's underwent psychic interrogation, and while they had links to the chaos-serving Astral Claws, they were themselves pure.

It all comes down to that point I emphasized previously. Inquisitors don't give a damn about the reasons. Space Marines do.

I would imagine that for Dorn's sons, it is not enough to merely purge their misguided, disloyal, traitorous (or what have you) brethren. They need and want to know what it is that set them on that destructive path.

And the IF are pious and righteous sure, but they are not fanatical zealots like the Black Templars. You could say that they are more "considered" zealots.

As for that point about Benny Boy, I don't want to spoil chapters 11/12 but I would really recommend that people read them. Sarpedon is the scapegoat for the entire chapter since his brothers are on trial by extension and the trial is a very hostile environment for the Soul Drinkers with next to no supporters.

shadowhawk2008
28-09-2011, 08:19
... Because it's not out?

Phalanx - Ben Counter - April 2012

Herp.

Its been available in H&B since the e-mag rolled out and the ebook will be available in a couple months. Preorders are out now.

Wintertooth
28-09-2011, 13:13
... Because it's not out?
The final instalment was in last week's H&B. The explanation of the trial was in last year's H&B.

Even if it wasn't, that doesn't excuse expressing opinions and passing judgment on something you know naff all about.


Herp.
Suits you.

Goosey_J
28-09-2011, 13:28
The final instalment was in last week's H&B. The explanation of the trial was in last year's H&B.

Even if it wasn't, that doesn't excuse expressing opinions and passing judgment on something you know naff all about.


Suits you.

I don't read hammer and bolter, I wasn't aware that any explanation of the trial had been published at all. I was under the impression that this was a speculative thread, so apologies for that.

Despite that, you're mistaken anyway. I know plenty enough about Ben Counter's literay contributions (having read at least 7 of his books) to express an opinion on and pass judgement on his work, past, present or future. I would ask you politely as well to stop your condescending remarks at me, they serve no purpose in this discussion.

Wyrmwood
28-09-2011, 13:33
To be fair, he's going on his knowledge of the plot and past experience with the other books. His assumption that Ben Counter's writing isn't up to par is pretty judgemental; that said, I haven't really noticed an improvement in Ben's writing since Grey Knights.