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fruitystu
03-09-2011, 17:09
This thread does exactly what it says in the title!

Simply list the things which you prefer not to encounter during a game, or in a general gibberfest...

First up, I really don't like it when people criticise my army choice. I'm not a particularly competitive player, but I am a competent general. Oft times I'll have a unit in there purely because I like it's description, or the models are cool. Yet it seems some can't leave their hobby behind, and leap straight in with purely subjective comments, like 'tier' and that. Blech, not for me! Likewise when my opponent, or worse, a backseat gamer, finds it impossible not to mention 'competitive' 'comp' or 'optimal'. See, from where I stand, it's a game. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm competitive at work, and a highly motivated person, but this is just my hobby. This is what I do to blow off steam. Trash talking is a time honoured tradition, likewise bragging. But to slate someones army, and usually based off what Johnny 10,000 posts spewed on the internet, is a different matter. Now don't get me wrong, all are entitled to their opinions, and there is nothing inherently wrong with a player enjoying the competitive scene. Just please, it's damned obvious I don't fall into that scene, so please keep things balanced and respectful.

And I did mention backseat gamers. You want to play me, cool. Let me know and we'll arrange a game. Until said appointed hour, please keep schtum when I'm battling it out with another person. Nothing ruins a game for me like a particularly sneaky manouevre being pointed out to my opponent. It's a disservice to my tactical skill, and even worse for my opponent, as you're casually suggesting he couldn't possibly have seen it coming. This mostly harkens from my experience as a former staffer. I'm good at teaching people the game, and offering advice. But the advice for the most part comes after the battle has ended. Even if it's just grabbing empty movement trays to show what they could have done, is far better than just playing the game for them. Backseat gaming is extremely rude, and ill mannered. I know it can be hard at times, especially if it's a relatively new player about to get hammered by a simple but effective tactic, and it's not always possible to resist a couple of hints. But try your hardest. They won't learn owt by being kept safe from harm!

And finally (yeah, I've entered self righteous waffle right enough!) it's an opponent who won't focus on the game. Be it just chatting with his mate rather than the opponent, or outright wandering off, the game requires your attention, as does your opponent. Pay attention, and you can motor through most games in a couple of hours, or even quicker if both people know what they're doing, and have brought their books!

So, yeah, that's the sort of thing likely to ensure I don't play you very often (I would twice, but that seems a little harsh. Everyone has a bad day, but it might be some time afore I face off against you again!).

Svorlrik
03-09-2011, 17:29
I totally agree about the backseat gamer, nothing worse than you and the opponent getting stuck into an enjoyable game and having other (usually less competent) players pointing out what you should and shouldn't be doing.

I'm all for players watching and learning from games, and cheering along whilst they wait for a table to game on or whatever, but I also don't expect them to join in unless their minis are on the table.

charlarino
03-09-2011, 17:41
Completely agree on people keeping focused on the game, manys the time when I'm waiting to cast a spell and my Opponent is either on the phone to someone else, or chatting to a mate in the background..

I generally wait 5 minutes then if its someone I don't know too well I start packing my models up and I bugger off to play someone who's willing to devote his full attention to the game in hand

WarmbloodedLizard
03-09-2011, 17:51
when they field SC, especially when it's more than one or when it's someone who knows I have an aversion for SC. I can still live/play with it. I just don't like it. (I have less of a problem with it when it is a very themed list, though.)

Haravikk
03-09-2011, 18:08
The worst type is someone that's really, really stubborn about a rule even though they are very, very wrong. Anyone playing an army should at least know their army's rules better than someone that doesn't collect that army! I hate it when someone is forceful about a rule to the point that I then doubt my knowledge of it and back down, only to find out later that I was in the right. Not to say I'm right all the time (far from it), but more often than I sometimes give myself credit.

Also, people that are rules-lawyers in friendly games; you know the types, always have to be precise with the ranges, never lenient, require everything to be looked up, etc. etc., particularly annoying are the people that are like this even when they're already winning by quite a margin. There are a few people I simply don't play anymore because of this.

theunwantedbeing
03-09-2011, 18:39
The worst type are the disinterested 40k players who constantly bitch about how much fantasy sucks and how 40k is so much better and faster. Why play fantasy at all if all you are going to do is whinge about how much you hate it all?

Backseat gamers I don't really have an issue with to be honest.
Except those who like to reveal my "hidden" stuff which my opponent shouldn't know about.

DeeKay
03-09-2011, 19:08
Totally agree on the backseat gamer. Most of the time, their advice sucks anyway!

My personal pet hates in a player can be split into 3 groups:

1) People who insist on taking "fluffy" lists that start whinging and moaning that they can't beat the competitive players. If you want to play with competitive players and come out on top, you have to think competitively as well. Ditto to those people who take the same army list constantly and wonder why their one trick pony doesn't work anymore.

2) Self-righteous fanbois who insist on saying one gaming system is the "better game". AFAIK, the idea of games is to have fun and if you have fun playing a particular game, then that's great. True, some rules sets may be better designed than others. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else will think it's better because of it.

3) Cheaters. Nuff said.

Also I have a dislike of people who say things like "Grey Knights are awesome" or "you should really start a Blood Angels army". These people are in a vast minority, and they usually shut up after they've seen my lovingly converted Chaos army, but it still ticks me off when a kid that's younger than some of my collection starts telling me about these things.

With regards,
Dan.

cool-kid-on-the-block
03-09-2011, 21:39
People who dont have the attention span to play a whole game without commenting on another game or starting a converastion with other people who arent me/the opponent.

That and when people not playing tell one person to do something they were going to do anyway, so that when they do it, it seems they are following the beckseat gamers advice and the opponent knows what they are trying to do as well.

Harkon Fenton Mudd
03-09-2011, 22:24
very much agree with most points...

personally theres a few things...

1) Cheaters...pretty self explanitory...a special place in hell goes to those who 'forget' rules that are unconvenient for them...

2) Whining Fluff-nuts...as has been mentioned...someone who plays a fluffy/themed army (and most of mine are) but whines excessantly when it fails repeatedly (which i dont...i enjoy the challenge of trying to beat something with it)...

3) the 'proxy' guy...its fine to proxy some times...if its prep for a tournament and you're tweaking a list...if you want to try out a big thing before committing the /$ to buy one...or if you've forgotten something (Peg Knights usually as they wont fit into the @~&%ing case)...those are fine...but if you're still doing it four weeks later with the same models and no discernable reason..?..go away...

4) Rules Lawyers...if you have to argue over every point...every miniscule rule then you have lost the point of the game...have fun...

5) Committee players...again already mentioned but its specifically those players who start accepting/looking for advice on how to play/what to do...if this goes above getting a rules clarification or a third opinion on if unit A could possibly see unit B to shoot/charge/glare intently at...then you clearly dont know what you're doing...if I'd wanted to face multiple opponents then I would've rocked out a larger army and the others would've been part of it...

5a) if said opponent tells the offending people to go away then respect goes up
5b) this rule can be overlooked in situations where the game is being used in an educational manner...usually where someone is trying to get a younger sibling into the game so they will discuss whats going on...this is generally (at least in my local store) acceptable...

6) Distracted playes...again self explanitory...those players who can't focus on their own game are to be glared at severly...a worse offender is the one who is 'distracted' when you are making a key roll...often requiring you to re-rollit as he wasn't looking...

6a) the only situation where a distracted player is accceptable are those occasions where the entire group/store is distracted...i.e. something uber monuental has occured on another table, a hot chic has gone past the store, a fight has broken out between a traffic warden and someone he just gave a ticket too etc.

end of mini-rant...check blood pressure returned to normal...make tea...sit down for a bit...

Harry

D'Haran
03-09-2011, 22:47
I want to throw in those opponents who are adversely affected by how the game is going. I mean if the game is going badly for them they get whiny and bemoan the current state of affairs and especially if the game turns around and they 'feel bad' for doing well. I mean this is a game, and a game of dice at that, I don't need an opponent with a guilty conscience spending the last 3 rounds of the game feeling bad for winning. The only reason to act that way is if you're a cheater.

ac4155
03-09-2011, 23:09
The plays who stop playing because they have had a few bad dice rolls or a bad turn. Why bother playing if you're going to give up and let me win as soon as it's stopped going your way

Waagh Rider
03-09-2011, 23:43
1. People who whine about people bringing fluffy lists to pick up games. It's hard to get games for some people and when you turn up with your 'fun' army it's often nice to play against another balanced army and have fun rather than relentless Beard/Cheese/Spam players. (sounds like lunchtime for a wargamer) In an ideal world, the Beards and the Fluffs would only play amongst their respective groups, but you often don't know what you're up against until the other guy has set up, and as the career of Justin Bieber shows, it is far from an ideal world.

2. People who set up their list specifically so that their opponent is beaten by turn 2, and within those two turns have their magic phase shut down, and their units magic spammed and panicked off the board. You are very clever and clearly the master of Warhammer, now go off and find something else to do. (this was more of an issue in 7th, when terror bombing and leadership reduction was the goal of all Daemons players).

3. Players who are so confident that they are just going through the motions of beating you in 2 turns, that they tell you what they are going to do stage by stage in patronising fashion, calculating the precise Mathhammer odds of every move you make, all the time predicting that it will all be over before turn 3...

This makes me sound like a very bitter player, when in fact i'm a delight to face over a gameboard! I just like to have fun in my 2 hours not at work. Sometimes I can see the way the wind is blowing by the end of turn 1, and I know it'll just be two hours of headache....

Spyral
04-09-2011, 00:09
Arrogant players - the ones who 'are right' despite black and white saying otherwise (this is on non contentious issues)

+1 to the commitee - I play a 1 v 1 or a 2 v 2 (or a 2 vs 1 with 2x1000 vs 1x2000) That's what I've 'signed up' for - I have NOT signed up for 5 vs 1...

No-One
04-09-2011, 01:03
cheaters: self explanatory, but if you wanna cheat, honestly, you shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. you're gonna lose sometimes, its a game, dont be a bitch about it, accept it and try to play better, dont try to cheat to get your wins, earn them.

competitive-is-the-only-way! types: cant stand them, i wanna play the army i wanna play, whether its competitive or heavily themed and not so good, i dont care, i've built, converted and painted the army, not you, so dont try cramming your ideals of how the game should be played down my throat

rules-lawyers: all that needs be said is a swift dose of punch-in-the-face-icilin is good medicine to cure your disorder...

Count_Orlock
04-09-2011, 01:20
The worst thing I know is when people critize my army, so I agree with the OP. I once went to a tournament with my Ogres, back in 7th ed. They weren't good, I knew it. But I like Ogres. I went up against Dark Elves, reaaaally bbad match-up. But the player was very friendly, so I had fun even though he almost tabled me. But his friends were constantly walking by, saying things like "Nice, Ogres! THat's a free win for you!" and such. That made me really angry, and to be honest, kind of sad. That's just rude and mean.

I also don't like bad winners/losers. It's a game, sometimes you lose. It won't get better if you start to curse, and through dice around you. And if you win, there is no reason to mock your opponent. It's simply not done.

Bottom line is, I just want people to be nice and have fun.

Sexiest_hero
04-09-2011, 01:54
People who pick on noobs weak gamers. Every player should have two lists one to play vets, and a softer list for newer players.

The pouter, He is starting to lose so he gets pissy and yelly at his dice, army and GW.

The Converter hater. I have lots of older models, that have been heavly converted, and some units don't have models at all. I'm making a beast men army with insect heads and body parts. I call them Men-sects. Some People don't like heavily converted models and are quick to voice their own opinions when not asked.

the "You suck if you took that guy." Some people don't have the cash to rebuy a army every year, or god forbid just love the mini.

The "your paint job sucks guy." My hands arnt steady, I have kids, and a clumsy wife. I do my best, thank you.

The Best painting award douche bag. You paid to have your army painted, that's cheating bro.

Im alright with the other player getting help, generals have advisers. But nothing is gonna save him from me!

Eternus
04-09-2011, 07:38
I agree with lots of the stuff that's already been said, especially stuff like people who are convinced they're right about how they play a certain rule but are blatantly wrong. I don't like having to drag out the BRB, but if I have to then so be it. If we're gonna play the game, lets at least play by the rules.

A new one for you, but this might be unique to me and my way of thinking. I don't like 'boring player'. By boring, I mean players who always play pretty much the same army and the same list every game, and will never consider trying something different. They always play a pitched battle, because it's too much effort to try a scenario for a change. It's like they're just going through the motions rather than playing the game to enjoy themselves.

The way round this is obviously not to play people like this, but they're not bad people, they just don't want the same things from the game as I do, and I feel like they're missing out, and this means that people who agree to play them are also missing out if they want to do something different. There is so much that can be done with this game, so why some people insist on playing in just two dimensions instead of three is beyond me.

Ville
04-09-2011, 08:00
Too firm handshakes! Don't hurt me after the game, it's just a game, man!

RanaldLoec
04-09-2011, 10:02
1) Inconsistent application of wheeling, reforms and rear or side moves.

yes you can move backwards 3 inch but not diagonally that requires a wheel.

No you cannot fit that 8 inch wide horde through that 6 inch gap. You can premeasure and plan ahead its called tactics.

2) It's a SOCIAL hobby meaning I will talk to people you still have my attention. Maybe I TRUST you to roll for that spell I don't require to witness your every move and dice roll. It doesn't mean I'm not interested.

MOMUS
04-09-2011, 10:56
Too firm handshakes! Don't hurt me after the game, it's just a game, man!

HAHA. Surely that should be done before the game? Meaning you suffer with any dice rolling and in the 'movement' and 'staying hydrated' phases. :evilgrin:

Makrar
04-09-2011, 10:59
The now classical 8th hater.

Not content with not enjoying there own hobby they must impart how much Warhammer 8th sucks with other players. I mean if you dont enjoy it fine i understand that but please **** off and leave me alone, dont stand next to my game and whine about how 8th is the spaz edition, How everything is obscene and no tactics are involved, when they played it was must better etc.

completely ruins my day :(

(Yes this has actually happened more then once to me)

Rosstifer
04-09-2011, 11:27
The now classical 8th hater.

Not content with not enjoying there own hobby they must impart how much Warhammer 8th sucks with other players. I mean if you dont enjoy it fine i understand that but please **** off and leave me alone, dont stand next to my game and whine about how 8th is the spaz edition, How everything is obscene and no tactics are involved, when they played it was must better etc.

completely ruins my day :(

(Yes this has actually happened more then once to me)

I've had it once, and got berated by reasons I should play Warmachine instead. Cool, I'll try Warmachine, it's a cool game, but I'm not going to rage quit WHFB because a neckbeard told me too.

Fizzy
04-09-2011, 11:37
Younger players that whine and almost cry when I pick off 5 of his marines with artillery.
"I'm just gonna lose so whats the point?"

I mean I have lost maybe 35 times against older and experienced players when I was a kid. I shook their hand for a good game and asked " Same time next week?"

It's a game :)

fruitystu
04-09-2011, 11:38
Oh, another one! People who don't bring their gubbins with them, like Dice, Tape Measure, Books, Army List etc. You do need more than just your models for a game!

And I don't mind Rules Lawyers so much, depending on how far they go. This is directly linked to the statement above, as I've found a great many Rules Lawyers are not terribly fond of you looking up the rulebook to confirm something!

The Self Styled Tactical Genius. You know, the sort of bloke who runs a gunline, where the only tactical skill required is to remeber to point your cannon at the target. It's not that their army is incredibly boring to fight, essentially reducing my overall strategy to legging it across the board as fast as my army can. Oh no. It's the smug 'I R GENIUS!' look on their face as they do it. Now once or twice a year it can be fun to take on or field a gunline, just for poops and giggles. But there are players out there who do nothing but. Surely every, single game must be pretty much the same for them?

Ville
04-09-2011, 12:48
HAHA. Surely that should be done before the game? Meaning you suffer with any dice rolling and in the 'movement' and 'staying hydrated' phases. :evilgrin:

Apparently in my case they use crushing handshakes merely as a revenge, instead of disabling me for the duration of the game. We are all gentlemen here after all, you know!:angel:

Orkushun
04-09-2011, 13:30
I don't like the type that changes his mind 20 times before finally making a move, breaks my concentration :P

nurgle5
04-09-2011, 15:30
I have to agree with the points made on cheaters, rules lawyers and players with their own cheer-leading team. Just like to add, all of these are sooooo much worse at a GT :p.



whine about how 8th is the spaz edition, How everything is obscene and no tactics are involved, when they played it was must better etc.

Hilariously ironic considering how the only tactic in 7th ed was hit them in flank with at least 3 mounted troops, rinse and repeat.



Younger players that whine and almost cry when I pick off 5 of his marines with artillery.
"I'm just gonna lose so whats the point?"


This actually happened to me about 3 or 4 times in 40k against older players. Well, they were only about 5 years older than me, but I vividly remember one guy freaking out about because 20 heavy bolters* (that's 60 strength 5 shots) somehow managed to kill 6 havocs despite the fact they were hiding in a building :rolleyes:. He got massively upset over it and mentally quit the game. Turn bloody 1.

* I was playing Imperial Guard, so this is quite possible at the 1500pt-1750pt mark.

wizbix
04-09-2011, 15:30
I hate those players that, when rolling dice, tend to throw it at your carefully converted and painted models.

fruitystu
04-09-2011, 15:37
Or those who don't clear the decks before rollling, and worse, insist on rolling Scatter dice well away from the target. It's just good practice to roll as close as feasibly possible. And it prevents the magically self orienting tape measure!

Eternus
04-09-2011, 16:29
How about players who's collection is litterally just thrown into a box and is always in a horrendous state?

WarmbloodedLizard
04-09-2011, 16:57
Hilariously ironic considering how the only tactic in 7th ed was hit them in flank with at least 3 mounted troops, rinse and repeat.

hitting a unit in the flank is the goal of a specific tactic, not the tactic itself. it's not in the least ironic. There are a lot of things that were better/more interesting under 7th (e.g. importance of movement, less randomness) but also a lot of things that are better under 8th (infantry more important, tiers are much closer)

I, however, agree that people who haven't played more than 1-2 games of 8th and still keep whining about it are annoying. (about as annoying as people who always have to point out how flawless 8th is and how bad 7th was.)

Scammel
04-09-2011, 17:11
Those with double standards when it comes to luck. A slightly-below average roll/above average roll on their/your part will draw out huge groans and lots of complaining, a slightly-above average/below average roll on their/your part will pass without comment. Obviously, everyone will bemoan bad luck when it happens, but I do find it rather annoying when it's actually been about average over the course of a battle but I'm getting constant earache.

jack da greenskin
04-09-2011, 17:21
I dislike opponents who make the game anything less than fun. eg -

People who are fine normally, but when you're charging, or shooting into cover, or doing something fiddly that requires a bit of common sense and co-operation, turn into tools. Really lawyer the hell about not getting within an inch of this scenery piece, me only being able to see a body and head, that kinda thing. Ambiguities like this are what deter me away from warhammer and GW games, only because what it does to otherwise alright opponents.

People who tell you their wrong interpretation of the rule, and when you explain it, and why you're right, resort to awful arguments about why their way is right ("We've always played it this way." "The shop owner says its played this way"). Had to spend 15 mins explaining why my guard vets were not destroyed by my vendetta blowing up after moving flat out, and it really ruins the game.

Gamers who think they know exactly what is good and what is bad. Everyone thinks their opinion is informed, and people branch into 2 categories IMO here. I know several people who will give me an objective view if I ask them about a unit or an army composition, and I'd trust their opinion if they said "This unit won't work very well with that," "try this" "It's more effective if you do that" kind of thing. IME, this group of people only tend to talk about the units if you ask or are obviously unsure.

The other group are a lot more vocal about their opinions. I know 2 people who can't go 5 minutes without telling you how broken their unit of X is, or why Y will toast everyone. Their opinions are normally misinformed too. It irritates me to see them harking on so I'll normally challenge, and have to sit through 10 mins of why scout bikers are the most broken unit in the game. SCOUT BIkERS (!)...
"They are amazing if you get the first turn charge and auto-hit with your meltabombs on the sergeant."
Me: "You won't always get first turn, I'm sure they're useful, but they're not game breaking. Meltabombs are good, but not fantastic, you've only got one attack with them and if you fluff that, or get a bad roll on the vehicle damage chart, that 200pt unit is effectively useless, as it is half the games you play anyway."
"You're AUTO-HITTING if the vehicle hasnt moved yet because its the first turn. And they get to booby trap a piece of terrain... yadda yadda"

It's like trying to get blood out of a stone, I really dont have time for it tbh. YMMV

EffCee
04-09-2011, 18:00
Players who start to whine and sulk if they are losing or if a unit/character is under-performing. It's a game FFS, just laugh it off and move on!

nurgle5
04-09-2011, 18:02
hitting a unit in the flank is the goal of a specific tactic, not the tactic itself.

Arguably 7th ed was less tactical because calvary could win games on their own, that's all I was sayin' :cool:.

And I'd know, I played Bretonnians for most of that edition :p!

Eternus
04-09-2011, 18:05
Arguably 7th ed was less tactical because calvary could win games on their own, just sayin' :cool:.

Please, not 7th vs 8th again! Just sayin'...

rob_appo
04-09-2011, 18:14
I suppose every group has one, that one guy who writes a list purely to be as cheesy as possible and forgoes all fun in the game. The guy who you challenge to a game and then says sure I'll write a list, and 5-10 mins later you ask him about the list ans he just replys Teclis :eyebrows:. I can understand why people like playing in a horribly competitive way but in a pick up game I dont wany my opponent to try to make the game as horrible as possible.

ewar
04-09-2011, 18:25
This gripe might be a bit petty, but my bugbear is opponents who pick up the dice which have hit, and not the ones which have missed, when rolling handfuls of hit/wound/saves.

It's because when there are 40 dice on the table, you can't see every dice obviously - so you're relying on an opponents honesty when they're just picking up dice saying 'hit', 'hit', 'hit' etc.

Whereas if they pick up the misses you can see for yourself that all the hits are on the table to see and there is no incentive to pick up false dice 'by accident'.

Of course I don't care about this with my gaming group, as I trust them to be honest, and I think we just do it this way automatically - but it bugs me when tourney players do it the other way... makes me immediately distrust them!

Anyone else play it this way!?

jimbo2
04-09-2011, 18:26
1. People who roll their dice dangerously near the miniatures and risk chipping the paintjob.

2. People who pick up my miniatures without asking, keep your dirty, grubby, fat fingered hands off please.

3. Loudmouths, the kind who can just go on and on without any input from you, or make massive braying geek jokes.

4. As some have said the "I hate 8th" crowd, fine then, but stop playing it and go away - I like it and you aren't more intelligent than me just because you are easily disatisfied in life.

5. The "You should play Warmachine/Hordes/Spartan Games" crowd. I'm glad they like those games but that's not what we're playing. I don't have a problem with GW's pricing structure so the price difference is utterly irrelevant to me, I like the games I play and I don't like Privateer Press's rules or models so stop bugging me about it.

6. Fast dice rollers that don't give you a chance to see what's going on, and by the same token people who don't talk through their actions.

Got no problem with rules lawyers myself, if someone wants to pull that stuff fine as technically them's are the rules.

The bearded one
04-09-2011, 18:26
Those with double standards when it comes to luck. A slightly-below average roll/above average roll on their/your part will draw out huge groans and lots of complaining, a slightly-above average/below average roll on their/your part will pass without comment. Obviously, everyone will bemoan bad luck when it happens, but I do find it rather annoying when it's actually been about average over the course of a battle but I'm getting constant earache.

This, by Grungni, this.

I remember during a battle last week; my saurus roll their attacks against some black orcs, and hit a large %, including quite a couple 6's. My greenskinned opponent doesn't groan or complain, though the bystanders groan 'urgh, there he goes again with his lucky rolls (I bought a dicebox of blue dice and for a while they rolled pretty good. Over time they have begun to roll average to sucky)' , but then don't bat an eye when only about 1/5 of those hits manage to roll a 4+.

It's not that big a deal, though it does get rather bothersome if it's done all the time. That game my first magic phase had 12 powerdice, accompanied by a cacaphony of sighs from bystanders, but nothing when the Slann breaks concentration on his second spell, and the skink priest then miscasts on his first spell and loses both his wizardlevels. I shrugged it away with an "o, well" and "that wasn't so bad, was it?" towards my opponent but when similar things happen to other players they often sigh, moan and groan. :(

Robotlord
04-09-2011, 18:28
People who complain about me giving the new kid handy advice on how to use the army he bought just that day and proceeded to play a game. I certainly didn't help him to win the game, but I prevented him getting tabled in 2 turns. If he had been tabled he would have learnt nothing. As it was he was tabled in turn 4, but at least he took about 12 chaos warriors and a manticor with him.( Small game, around 500-750 points, no percentages.)And this was just with 20 NG, nets and 3 fanatics.

nurgle5
04-09-2011, 18:32
This gripe might be a bit petty, but my bugbear is opponents who pick up the dice which have hit, and not the ones which have missed, when rolling handfuls of hit/wound/saves.

Anyone else play it this way!?

I'm with you on this one. I play the this way and I've been encouraging people in my group to play the same. I mean, no one would cheat by removing successful rolls would they? :p

I've found that it's little things like this that lead more sportsmanlike play.

Andy p
04-09-2011, 18:33
This gripe might be a bit petty, but my bugbear is opponents who pick up the dice which have hit, and not the ones which have missed, when rolling handfuls of hit/wound/saves.

It's because when there are 40 dice on the table, you can't see every dice obviously - so you're relying on an opponents honesty when they're just picking up dice saying 'hit', 'hit', 'hit' etc.

Whereas if they pick up the misses you can see for yourself that all the hits are on the table to see and there is no incentive to pick up false dice 'by accident'.

Of course I don't care about this with my gaming group, as I trust them to be honest, and I think we just do it this way automatically - but it bugs me when tourney players do it the other way... makes me immediately distrust them!

Anyone else play it this way!?

Yeah that's how we play it at my club too, it just makes sense, get rid of the misses/fails to wound and leave the hits/wounds behind.

I think many people are tempted to just twist a dice roll here and there, it's the type of thing I did when I played board games at about the age of six.

It's something that most people grow out of, but some often retain it as a bad habit. :p

The bearded one
04-09-2011, 18:42
Mmm, I don't believe I'm very consistent with which ones I pick up. I think just pick up whichever is less work to remove :p

jack da greenskin
04-09-2011, 18:44
I suppose every group has one, that one guy who writes a list purely to be as cheesy as possible and forgoes all fun in the game. The guy who you challenge to a game and then says sure I'll write a list, and 5-10 mins later you ask him about the list ans he just replys Teclis :eyebrows:. I can understand why people like playing in a horribly competitive way but in a pick up game I dont wany my opponent to try to make the game as horrible as possible.

know exactly what you mean. Agree to game, list tailor, take gitsy jammy tailored units, and still not a fun or happy opponent.

Scammel
04-09-2011, 18:47
I'm with you on this one. I play the this way and I've been encouraging people in my group to play the same. I mean, no one would cheat by removing successful rolls would they?

I've found that it's little things like this that lead more sportsmanlike play.

I personally pick up the hits, I can't help it. I totally understand why people try to encourage it, but one bugbear I have is when people (not you, I know it's not your intention) describe the very action of picking up the hits 'unsportsmanlike'. If I'm not picking up misses, I'm not doing anything wrong!

ewar
04-09-2011, 18:59
I personally pick up the hits, I can't help it. I totally understand why people try to encourage it, but one bugbear I have is when people (not you, I know it's not your intention) describe the very action of picking up the hits 'unsportsmanlike'. If I'm not picking up misses, I'm not doing anything wrong!

To be fair, he didn't call it unsportsmanlike, just that it encourages sportsmanlike behaviour.

I think it's just when playing with strangers it's easier to know you're not doing anything wrong when the hits stay on the table :)

Scammel
04-09-2011, 19:49
To be fair, he didn't call it unsportsmanlike, just that it encourages sportsmanlike behaviour.

I know, that's why I put in the little disclaimer. As I said, I appreciate why people find it preferable.

That's another thing that's annoying, now that you mentioned 'hits staying on the table'. People who consistently manage to roll dice off the table. Again, obviously there's bound to be one or two that attempt to escape, but if dice keep going off when you roll them in a certain area, stop rolling them there! It pays to think just for a second about the best place to roll them.

fruitystu
04-09-2011, 19:59
Yup, always remove your failures. And remember to count out your dice in front of your opponent when gathering for your attack. If batch rolling declare the batches (say for 35 attacks, 10 dice 3 times, then 5) to your opponent.

Oh, and if at all avoidable, please please please DON'T roll your dice one at a time. It's pointless. It just takes up more time, and it certainly doesn't create suspense! It's just hacks me off.

Brother Alexos
04-09-2011, 20:13
I would have to say, I hate opponents that take the WYSIWYG rule to an extreme. I remember I had modeled a Big Shoota on an Ork Nob, to resemble that he has a better shoota than the other boyz, and he kept on telling me I couldn't use a weapon on him because my Codex doesn't allow it. We argued the point so much we only got 2 turns of the game in. Even without the weapon, I still thumped him pretty good, and it was clear I could win without it.

Next up, people who hate ANY form of proxy models, no matter the reason. I remember playing a doubles tournament, and it had been around a month after the Tyranid codex came out. My little brother ran a Genestealer-heavy list, and I was running a Speed Freaks list. All of that was cool, except my little brother had been using a Mycetric Spore for his Carnifex, and GW doesn't make a model for it. So we have been using a Soda Can with a weird paint job as a proxy. One of the enemies decided that that gave us an unfair advantage, and told us we had to either use an actual model, or re-write his list so he didn't have one. He was playing a Vostroyan Tank-Heavy army, and I knew that his carnifex wouldn't last two seconds. So I pointed out that his Knight Commander Pask was a Vostroyan Heavy Weapons loader (beautiful conversion work.) and that he would have to re-write his entire list so he didn't have that. He shut up pretty quick.

I know that that's all 40k-based, but I've only recently gotten into the Fantasy scene.

Andy p
04-09-2011, 20:36
I can't really hold anything against people who proxy, at my club im the only fantasy player who uses an entirely painted army, the rest use whatever they have, combined with bits of paper that have base sizes drawn on them.

Oh how I have stuck it to those bits of paper. :D

Dark Aly
04-09-2011, 21:10
Mmm, I don't believe I'm very consistent with which ones I pick up. I think just pick up whichever is less work to remove :p

I'm with you there If I roll a handfull of dice that need 2+'s then I pick up the 1's if I need 6's then I pick them up. I suppose it's because I'm idle.

There is only one thing that makes me not like opponent and that is whether or not I enjoy playing them. There is only one way for me to gauge that and that is to play them.

I don't normally like to play rules lawyers or WAAC players but by getting to know the people in my group I get to know what kind of game they like and as my own tastes are varied I accept/decline games depending on what mood I'm in.

Like wise I usually have several army lists written- either for a more competeive game and one for a fun frolick with house rules, fudging and beer.

I can also be guilty of being a bad opponent though. Somtimes I loose interest in a game when it has been all one sided or run-of-the-mill mundane and so explain to my opponent that I think it's about time to call quits. This normally only happens when they're not enjoying it too much either as it's quite infectious if they're having fun.

Count_Orlock
04-09-2011, 23:15
How about players who's collection is litterally just thrown into a box and is always in a horrendous state?

Yeah, there's a player at our local club that does that. It's not fun to play against an army where most of it is broken, twisted weapons, and covered with glue because of several repairs a month. It makes me sad. :(

OldMaster
04-09-2011, 23:26
You know, I've been reading through this and I found myself unable to recall any game in which I played against an opponent who did anything described in this thread.

I guess I can consider myself very lucky.

RanaldLoec
05-09-2011, 08:34
Oh, and if at all avoidable, please please please DON'T roll your dice one at a time. It's pointless. It just takes up more time, and it certainly doesn't create suspense! It's just hacks me off.

Guilty as charged.

If I'm rolling 5 or less 1up armour saves if I roll all 5 at once I seem to fail at least 2.

It's a silly superstitious habit that I find hard to break.

That and I'm convinced my dice plot my down fall behind my back just because they have to share a box with the tape measure. I swear the sneaky little gits roll onto a 6 then flip onto a 1 when I'm not looking.

Except leadership tests then their more than happy to roll onto 5's and 6'd. :mad:

ewar
05-09-2011, 10:26
Guilty as charged.

If I'm rolling 5 or less 1up armour saves if I roll all 5 at once I seem to fail at least 2.

It's a silly superstitious habit that I find hard to break.

That and I'm convinced my dice plot my down fall behind my back just because they have to share a box with the tape measure. I swear the sneaky little gits roll onto a 6 then flip onto a 1 when I'm not looking.

Except leadership tests then their more than happy to roll onto 5's and 6'd. :mad:

My superstition is the exact opposite - single dice rolls always fail. For my bretonnians I like to take their armour and ward saves at the same time - if I roll singly then they're guaranteed to fail.

I also try and make important rolls very nonchalantly - stupid I know, but I can't help but feel the more hyped up I am about making a key roll (i.e. break tests) the more likely it is to fail!:confused:

The bearded one
05-09-2011, 10:58
I also try and make important rolls very nonchalantly - stupid I know, but I can't help but feel the more hyped up I am about making a key roll (i.e. break tests) the more likely it is to fail!:confused:

+1

I even caught myself doing it at a roulette table in a casino :p just nonchalantly looking at what number was being rolled.

phoenixguard09
05-09-2011, 11:00
Two things I don't like.

1. People who take advantage of their opponent. Whether this is through arguing a rule until the argument is ceded in their favour, sneakily picking up the wrong dice or writing up a faulty army list, "Of course my Gors are 5pts each. I don't know what you're talking about."

2. People with bloody lucky dice. Its made worse by the fact that I have been known to roll 3 Miscasts in 1 turn. With 3 Wizards. Several times.

ihavetoomuchminis
05-09-2011, 12:28
I think you people have said it all yet, but i want to give my opinion:

1- Cheaters. I hate them.

2- Double standard players. You know....those who ask for shooting with a unit they forgot to shoot with, but later don't let you shoot with yours.

3- Those who roll armour saves 1 by 1.....because they think the odds of saving are greater.

4-Extreme list-tailoring players.

5-"i only play the competitive armies with their competitive units, and you are dumb if you don't play them so" type of guy.

6-"this unit suck, because i don't know how to play it properly, and i've read in the internet that it sucks" guys (usually point 5 and point 6 guys come together in the same body).

7- People who take the very same Overpowered Special Character at every single game. Usually they claim themselves to be great players.

8- 8th edition haters.

9-Rule lawyers that are looking for unfair adavantage in every single rule, despite being crystal clear how it is written.

10- Loudmouths. Why are you shouting? You're embarrassing me.

11- People who plays easy-mode armies and say that their army is not so great, because it has a weakness....wich tends to be a weakness that every other army has too. Usually they also say that they are great players and you should play better.

12- "I don't care about models and painting" guys. They use to proxy everything, and never paint anything. They ruin my enjoyment. I'm not against proxying when you want to try something, and of course i am not against unpainted armies, as long i can see some love for the models. It's a matter of their attitude.

13- People who get angry when things go wrong. I can understand some level of frustration when nothing goes good, because i've been there. But being angry at first sign of losing....no way i can tolerate this.

14- People who gives up the game when they see they're going to lose. I'm talking about that people who start making silly decisions just to finish sooner. I once played against a gunline with my chaos army. After 3 turns of being shot to pieces, i managed to get into close combat with most of my army unharmed, and he said "we can leave it here, can't we?"......i said no, and he started to being a jerk, retiring units of the game without rolling dices....and things like that.

I think that's enough.....

The Low King
05-09-2011, 13:26
People who estimate distances when it suits them but measure very exactly when it benifits them. It really frustrates me when someone wheels their unit the distance they want, only roughly measureing the distance (often they go too far) and then the following turn suddenly finds my unit is the tinyest fraction of an inch within their front arc and that they can charge it.....

People who just throw 6 dice at a nuke spell to try and IF it because otherwise i might be able to dispell it (when they have other spells they can cast). You are basically deciding the game on the flip of a coin, its not fun and its not tactical. I mean, im fine with 'nuke' spells in general (i play dwarfs) as a suitible amount of magic defence can protect me from them (tactical dispelling) but please dont deliberately go for the miscast....

Invigilius
05-09-2011, 13:33
I also can't stand people who belive that when they lose is because of bad luck and when they win is because they are brilliant. Also the people that start whinnig every time you get an above average dice roll.

ewar
05-09-2011, 13:50
I also can't stand people who belive that when they lose is because of bad luck and when they win is because they are brilliant.

Surely that applies to every wargamer in history!? :p



People who just throw 6 dice at a nuke spell to try and IF it because otherwise i might be able to dispell it (when they have other spells they can cast). You are basically deciding the game on the flip of a coin, its not fun and its not tactical. I mean, im fine with 'nuke' spells in general (i play dwarfs) as a suitible amount of magic defence can protect me from them (tactical dispelling) but please dont deliberately go for the miscast....

The flip side of this is that it's no fun to play against a Dwarf army which has more dispel dice than you do power dice, and completely shut the phase down. Even with my Rumination slann I've struggled to get more than a handful of spells through against Dwarfs, resulting in the 6 dice IF attempts. Swings both ways.

Duke Ramulots
05-09-2011, 16:24
Sounds like most of you covered the types of people that irk me so I will just reiderate...I HATE CHEATERS

It's a game, play it on equal footing. I promiss it wont hurt.

The Low King
05-09-2011, 16:43
yeah but as a dwarf player i invest 300 points in magic defence (wich is often the man target of every assisination unit someone has) and my opponant invests 400 points in magic themselves (usually varies between 200 and 500 points depending on their army)......how many spells is 100 points worth? for me, usually as many as get through (1 per turn).

Even a cheap mage can get spells threw my dwarf defence with enough small spells, yet someone who throws 6 dice at a spell (possibly slan excepted because they cost way more and are often designed to IF) is redering every part of the system pointless, tossing a coin to decide whether my entire battleline falls apart or 500 points of wizard gets blown up......

I played a woodelf player recently (single level 4: life) and he choose NOT to take dwellers. The game was so much more interesting with me having to decide wich spells to try and block, carefully calculating whether i could still kill his gladeguard if they were toughness 7, than sitting back with all my dice and 2 runes of spellbreaking useless hoping that the chaos player doesnt roll too well for the infernal gateway on my hammerers and lord.....

Sorry for the rant but ive lost and won too many games off deliberate IF spells.



On the flip side, something i really do like in an opponent is the ability to get completely mauled yet still come out smiling....

Waagh Rider
05-09-2011, 16:47
People who estimate distances when it suits them but measure very exactly when it benifits them. It really frustrates me when someone wheels their unit the distance they want, only roughly measureing the distance (often they go too far) and then the following turn suddenly finds my unit is the tinyest fraction of an inch within their front arc and that they can charge it.....

People who just throw 6 dice at a nuke spell to try and IF it because otherwise i might be able to dispell it (when they have other spells they can cast). You are basically deciding the game on the flip of a coin, its not fun and its not tactical. I mean, im fine with 'nuke' spells in general (i play dwarfs) as a suitible amount of magic defence can protect me from them (tactical dispelling) but please dont deliberately go for the miscast....

Hang on! Are you seriously suggesting that throwing 6 dice at Dwellers or Foot of Gork is a bad thing for a player to do?! I'm no powergamer, in fact I hate the breed, but really?! The game is over if you do that? I've been playing for a long time, and I play a lot of 8th ed, and I just don't buy this stuff about the uber spells 'deciding the game'. And if they do, and you've got the time, play again to balance it out, but don't criticize someone for using a perfectly reasonable tactic/rule. Now if that person has written an armylist that entirely revolves around being able to get that spell off (and has spammed wizards in order to roll/choose that specific spell) I would probably tell them to get a life, but I'm not bothered if they 'go for the miscast' by rolling 6 dice.
That's just whinging, surely?

The Low King
05-09-2011, 22:16
Hang on! Are you seriously suggesting that throwing 6 dice at Dwellers or Foot of Gork is a bad thing for a player to do?! I'm no powergamer, in fact I hate the breed, but really?! The game is over if you do that? I've been playing for a long time, and I play a lot of 8th ed, and I just don't buy this stuff about the uber spells 'deciding the game'. And if they do, and you've got the time, play again to balance it out, but don't criticize someone for using a perfectly reasonable tactic/rule. Now if that person has written an armylist that entirely revolves around being able to get that spell off (and has spammed wizards in order to roll/choose that specific spell) I would probably tell them to get a life, but I'm not bothered if they 'go for the miscast' by rolling 6 dice.
That's just whinging, surely?

Well, firstly this isnt about what is 'bad', its about what i dont like someone im playing to do. yeah, sure, im not going to rage-quit, i dont really like it when people do it.

Also, its not about using 6 dice to cast a spell that is my problem, it is someone deliberately throwing 6 dice at a spell every turn in the HOPE that they get IF and blow up my unit because they think they cant get it through otherwise.

Its not the spells that are the problem, ive had templates roll up my line of dwarf before after a dark elf player carefully sniped my Runelord with a spell i underestimated and let through before launching off a load of spells with minimal dice and the dagger..However annoyed i was at the turn of events (was about to win) it was a very well done tactical play by the player.

On the other hand, trying to drop gateway on my unit fo 28 hammerers with a Lord and a runic banner (nearly 700 points) when playing watchtower (my only unit that could take it from a block of chaos warriors) is not tactical and as i said, decides the game on the flip of a coin.

fruitystu
05-09-2011, 23:17
Found another phrase which is currently getting on my pip....

'Diced'. I here the younger gamers using it with alarming frequency. Rather than admit they've just been spanked like a little red-headed stepchild, and their opponent might just have played a blinder, they've clearly been 'diced'. That is to say, the dice and not their opponent was the sole cause of their defeat. I honestly cannot think of anything more insulting to an opponent to say to a fellow gamer. Sure, the dice can betray even the tippermosttoppermost Tournament Champion now and again, but I'm seeing it used after every single game. It's acute denial, and for my ha'penny worth, it would utterly ruin a game. Everyone enjoys a victory, and as long as it was hard fought, few of us mind defeat. But to deny your opponent in that way is just pathetic.

And guess where they picked it up from? The local Competitive Crowd. I know I'm in ranty mode now, but I despise this sort of meaningless phrase. Just admit you took a pounding and that you made mistakes. If you've truly been 'diced' then your opponent will know it. As much as I think everyone can enjoy the enemy suffering sudden and repeated bouts of 'Rubber Lance Syndrome', I don't think there are many who wouldn't wince in sympathy when a charge which should have paid off flounders, causing the opponent the game.

cool-kid-on-the-block
05-09-2011, 23:58
commities are worst at tounaments.

i have stood by and watched a friend of mine have a debate at a tounament about wether the opponents a unit could charge the watchtower when it was surrounded by skaven weapons teams that basically blocked the charge. appart from it being a cheezy tactic i think he was in the right as the unit would have to make a zigzag charge to get there but when the opponents boys rolled in and backed him up he had no choice but to back down without making a real problem out of it.

kinda like peer pressure.

Waagh Rider
06-09-2011, 00:04
Well, firstly this isnt about what is 'bad', its about what i dont like someone im playing to do. yeah, sure, im not going to rage-quit, i dont really like it when people do it.

Also, its not about using 6 dice to cast a spell that is my problem, it is someone deliberately throwing 6 dice at a spell every turn in the HOPE that they get IF and blow up my unit because they think they cant get it through otherwise.

Its not the spells that are the problem, ive had templates roll up my line of dwarf before after a dark elf player carefully sniped my Runelord with a spell i underestimated and let through before launching off a load of spells with minimal dice and the dagger..However annoyed i was at the turn of events (was about to win) it was a very well done tactical play by the player.

On the other hand, trying to drop gateway on my unit fo 28 hammerers with a Lord and a runic banner (nearly 700 points) when playing watchtower (my only unit that could take it from a block of chaos warriors) is not tactical and as i said, decides the game on the flip of a coin.

Point taken that you don't like it. However, the guy is using a legitimate method to get rid of the biggest threat to his troops' domination of the watchtower - If my opponent uses all the tricks at his disposal to kill my horde of savage orc Big'Uns, that's his prerogative because if they get into contact with his troops they tend to make a mess of them. What is your opponent meant to do? Hold back on the Gateway to give you a chance to fight him? And if you win, he's more or less handed you the game by not doing the thing that he should have done to kill your Hammerers. (this notwithstanding that he can easily roll 2 strength 2 hits when he does get the spell off - removing a unit is not a given) When I play, I like to think my opponent is cutting loose to beat me, not giving me an easy ride. And there is an awful lot of Warhammer that is decided by the 'flip of a coin', the combat system for one. I don't hold with that - my troops being massacred because of the roll of a dice - hate it..... You sound like a sore loser old chum.

Kharn_21
06-09-2011, 00:43
I only have one thing to add, people rolling leadership test dice one at a time and stopping if the first comes up low enough to not need the second. I'd much rather players just roll both together

Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

The bearded one
06-09-2011, 00:44
..... You sound like a sore loser old chum.

don't you know dwarfs grumble?

Waagh Rider
06-09-2011, 00:55
don't you know dwarfs grumble?

Good point, well made!

AndrewGPaul
06-09-2011, 09:49
There is only one thing that makes me not like opponent and that is whether or not I enjoy playing them. There is only one way for me to gauge that and that is to play them.

I don't normally like to play rules lawyers or WAAC players but by getting to know the people in my group I get to know what kind of game they like and as my own tastes are varied I accept/decline games depending on what mood I'm in.

I don't like passive-agressive players who have a problem with the game, but don't say anything, then run off to the internet to bitch about it. If you're not having fun, say something. If there's an issue we can do something about it. Sometimes that might mean giving up on the game and finding new opponents because we both want different things from the game. Fair enough. It's better to do that than to play a miserable game.

What really bugs me is people who get all grumpy when things start going badly - whether or not it's a game-loser, it makes the whole experience unfun.

Sh4d0w
06-09-2011, 11:03
The absolute worst out of all of them are the people that give up after a few bad dice rolls.
I once versed this guy with my orks vs his daemons. He had a bad couple of landings/dangerous terrain..etc. So he's lost half his army by the 3rd turn. He then precedes to waste time by constantly checking his phone and talking to me about various units. He did this because the place we were playing was closing in 20 minutes. He did this right up until closing time. It was a friendly game, enough said.

AndrewGPaul
06-09-2011, 12:08
If they're going to be like that, I'd rather they gave up sooner rather than continuing in a bad mood. That doesn't help anyone. If they quit in a huff then I can go and find a better opponent and now I know that they're not worth playing in future.

Eternus
07-09-2011, 12:29
I also can't stand people who belive that when they lose is because of bad luck and when they win is because they are brilliant. Also the people that start whinnig every time you get an above average dice roll.

I don't know, if I throw a unit of Chaos Warriors into the front of a unit of Skaven Clanrats and out of 16 attacks kill 2 Skaven, I'd say that's pretty bad luck, and if this kind of thing happens once a turn for a whole game, I'd say it's not unreasonable to say that I was scuppered by unlikely dice rolling.

At the same time, I have often put a victory down to good luck, because a key action my opponent initiated didn't work out because the dice were mean to him, or because a unit of mine held or won a combat when it really shouldn't have done.

It does take skill to judge whether your battle plan is a good one or not when you have to account for the vagaries of the whims of the Dice Gods, but that's half the fun!

IcedCrow
07-09-2011, 13:26
Most of this game comes down to luck. If I look at most of my wins over the years, rarely was it because I was a super tactical genius. It was usually because I either stacked the deck so far in my favor by abusing rules loop holes (back in my younger tourney days) or was because I either had a streak of hot luck or my opponent had a streak of cold.

Many of my losses also came about due to a round of horrible dice rolling.

I think people put too much stock in their "skill". Dice luck as far as I've seen it counts for quite a bit. You can have the greatest plan in the world, sealed by Alexander the Great himself, and then the dice rape you across the table and you get tabled hard.

That's the hobby though.

{this isn't to say that if a person plays another person whose skill level is higher or lower that the game will be even}

Eternus
07-09-2011, 13:36
Agreed. Luck does play a significant part, but you need far more luck for a pants plan to come good than for a great plan to come good. In 8th more than any other edition I think you have to build contingencies into your plan, because nothing is as cut and dried as it used to be.

IcedCrow
07-09-2011, 13:44
That's why I like this edition so much more than the abortion that was 7th edition. It requires you to have backup plans.

Knight doesn't always take Bishop anymore, and in fact pawn can take queen if queen moves into pawn's square if luck is not on your side (forcing you to fall back to Plan B and if you don't have Plan B then you are getting ready to lose)

Spinocus
07-09-2011, 18:09
Opponents that attempt to 'weasel' their way through a game, taking advantage of the little things in order to always get their way.

I have a friend who cheats... a lot... mainly due to his flagrant abuse & ignorance of the rules (I suspect the latter is also somewhat deliberate on his part so he can simply feign ignorance and get his way) but most of the times he's simply deliberate with the shenanigans. Part of the problem is that his bad habits were continually reinforced until they sucked me into their Warhammer circle. Prior to my coming along he mainly played against two friends, one of whom is a thoroughly mediocre general and easily beat more often than not, the other a very good friend of mine who, despite being a superior tactician (and smarter overall), defers to our weasely friend as the 'alpha' in all social situations. So my good friend was seemingly content drawing or losing most of the time which is funny given how contentious and competitive he can be when playing games with yours truly.

Classic Weasely moves consist of...

1) 2 + 2 = 5 - Fielding lists that exceed the point allowance or lists that simply aren't allowed. Nothing beats the feeling that you almost had a battle in the bag only to go over your opponent's list in your head after the fact and come to the realization that he was roughly 100pts over the limit. How could this happen? In our little Warhammer circle we don't play with open lists. We set the point allowances beforehand and only allow basic identification of the troops on the table, their weapon & armor loadouts, spells selected and the location of characters. All magic items, magic banners, etc. are kept under wraps until BTB contact is made or a magical spell/item forces someone to make that knowledge public. It's a bit more 'realistic' and makes for an uncertainty factor that we prefer.

2) Umm, on Second Thought - Redeploying or 'tweaking' a few choice units AFTER the Deployment phase is finished, thus lining up the best troops for maximum effectiveness. The best part is the "Why are you being a d--k?" look you get after telling him to stop it. The only way to make him stop is to do it yourself, which leads to ridiculous situations where both of you are re-jiggering your lines at will... It's just childish.

3) It's the Little Things - Flipping over that cannon to represent a misfire (thus taking it out of action for another turn) only to have him attempt flip it over on the other side of his crew, thus placing it 2 - 3 inches closer to my ambushing/tunneling unit, putting said cannon within grapeshot template distance (7th ed rules) and improving the chances that the crew could charge that unit, thus tying my unit up for a turn preventing them from wreaking havoc elsewhere.

4) Making S--t Up as We Go Along - Using that 100pt Bretonnian banner that negates ranks only for CR purposes and insisting that it negates ranks... period... thus killing SiN and sending my fat block of Clanrats running to the rear (I barely had a clue what was going on, this was one of my first WHFB games). Then there was the game my Skaven faced his Empire and during a critical combat he told me about some 'Rat Banner' that gave him +1 CR vs. Skaven... Again, I was new, clueless and thought this was a legit item...

5) That's a Mulligan - A great example of a 'do over' was the time he marched three blocks of heavy Bret cavalry forward a whopping 10 - 13", only to realize a few moments later that this move placed them in a vulnerable position (i.e. pinning & killing zone) for my well placed Slave blocks and weapons teams. He then proceeded to PULL ALL THREE BLOCKS BACK AND MAKE A STINK ABOUT IT WHEN I TOLD HIM NO ***** WAY!

In order to stay on top of people like this you MUST know ALL the BRB rules backwards & forwards... as well as ALL the rules of their armies' books... otherwise you'll wind up with the above and other equally ridiculous situations. True, there's no excuse for not knowing all the rules, especially when engaged in tournaments and competitive play. However when playing friendly games the responsibility of having to know everything otherwise you'll be taken advantage of becomes more than a little annoying. Like most people I want and expect my friends to abide by the rules and play nice during friendly games that don't count for jack squat! Despite the fact that I don't play competitively or outside my social circle I'm still a very competitive person who hates losing... and to know that I lost because my opponent & friend is stacking the deck against me is infuriating.

IcedCrow
07-09-2011, 18:11
Spinocus, I've had to play people much like the guy you are talking about, and I agree with you. They will try to pull stuff on people and then complain loudly and call you a rules lawyering git if you don't give them their way.

Another reason why I avoid public games.

Andy p
07-09-2011, 19:55
Spinocus, I've had to play people much like the guy you are talking about, and I agree with you. They will try to pull stuff on people and then complain loudly and call you a rules lawyering git if you don't give them their way.

Another reason why I avoid public games.

Agreed, there was one such person who used to frequent the store I used to play at when I was just learning the rules for 8th edition.

It always annoyed me to find out that a list was 50-100 points over, or that a rule he assured me we were playing correctly, we were in fact playing completely wrong.

It's true that it is my fault in part due to ignorance, but it is also his for deliberately taking advantage of that ignorance. I dont have a photographic memory and I didnt have a great deal of time to study the rules, at that time in my life.

I did catch him out on some things, but you can only really know whether something is wrong with experience and sometimes a bit of intuition. It was tiring having to remember my army rules, his and the core rules.

Is it unreasonable for me to want a trustworthy opponent?

AndrewGPaul
07-09-2011, 20:00
Spinocus, why does that guy still get games?

Scammel
07-09-2011, 20:12
I remember an upcoming 1500pt game in 7th against a VC player with my Ogres. Our circle of friends had been told both lists and were discussing the possible outcomes, when they began to realise that the other guy was roughly 700pts over. When we started setting up, one of said circle told him this and together they went over the list and made the necessary amendments.

At one point in the game, my unit of Bulls was being thrased, holding only due to Toothcracker. There were two Ogres left, one decides to strike the vamp general, inflicting 2 wounds.

'Two 3+ saves from the Flayed Hauberk!'

Said other friend chimes in.

'Erm, we got rid of that to make up the points, remember...'

The bearded one
07-09-2011, 20:25
700 points over? Hotdiggidy.. how could you not notice you were 700 points over xD

Spinocus
07-09-2011, 20:30
Spinocus, why does that guy still get games?

Heh, good question... Because we're friends first, Warhammer opponents second! In our social circle Warhammer constitutes a very small percentage of our time, so we put up with his BS. Despite my complaints he's a decent, agreeable, loyal sort... provided there's no Warhammer, money, status or p---y at stake.... LOL!

Like I said in my post, I'm actually very good friends with the other opponent I mentioned (the adept tactician). Like me he's very competitive but honest, the overwhelming majority of games we play against each other are hard won/lost and enjoyable.

I keep promising myself that i'll look into local wargaming groups to widen my circle of opponents. My problem is I'm not setting foot anywhere near the local GW store, too many kiddies & weirdos in there!

Scammel
07-09-2011, 21:07
700 points over? Hotdiggidy.. how could you not notice you were 700 points over xD

In a later 2000pt game, he was closer to 3000pts than 2000. Heck, he was closer to 3000pts than 2500pts. I tended to put up with this kind of thing because I could beat him regularly anyway.

Duke Ramulots
07-09-2011, 21:12
In a later 2000pt game, he was closer to 3000pts than 2000. Heck, he was closer to 3000pts than 2500pts. I tended to put up with this kind of thing because I could beat him regularly anyway.

I refuse to believe he didn't know he was over. Did he ever have a list at hand that was even close to the points being played at?

Makure
08-09-2011, 01:38
We have several guys locally that can make for painful experiences,


one guy is cheerful and enthusiastic about his army

but swears and throws dice when luck goes against him.
also he can't make a legal list to save his life, he just doesn't even try to stay within the percentages.

however every couple of months the scars fade and your drawn in by his good nature and enthusiasm and give him a game

...double 1s %#*@&!!!



Another always starts off as a deadly serious super competitive power gamer

but if things start to go wrong for him suddenly he is a zany goofball who only plays for a laugh

"I'm going to see what happens if I randomly determine my moves with the scatter dice, I'm going to see if my cannon crew can kill your knights in combat CHARGE!"
and if that didn't ruin the game enough he then says "I would have won if I'd played seriously"

he was a friend from outside the game so I couldn't outright refuse to play him, but he moved so I never have to play him again :P


One of the young guys sulks when things go bad. But wait it gets worse!
I was playing him and he lost his general.
My turn, I start moving my units and he walks off without a word
(I figure he's gone to get a drink or use the toilet and finish moving and wait for him to return before we continue)

...he never comes back.
I go looking for him he's not in the store, he had walked out and left his army on the table a friend of his had to pack it up at closing.

I will never play against him again...ever.

muppet515
08-09-2011, 01:50
he walks off without a word
(I figure he's gone to get a drink or use the toilet and finish moving and wait for him to return before we continue)

...he never comes back.
I go looking for him he's not in the store, he had walked out and left his army on the table a friend of his had to pack it up at closing.

I will never play against him again...ever.

Hey, but as a consolation, you got a free army, right? ;)

ChaosCajun
11-09-2011, 04:05
What I don't like....someone besides me who wins.

Khorneflakes
11-09-2011, 10:38
he said a friend of his packed up the other guys army so he didnt keep them.

sent from my toshiba notebook, using my fingers :D

abdulaapocolyps
11-09-2011, 22:22
I, seriously, would have taken whichever models I liked from the ones he left.
I hate bad winners, my regular opponent is awsome, the nicest loser you will ever meet and great fun to play, until things start to go his way. "ha! You didn't like that did you! DINK!easy." As his swordmasters run down my warriors of chaos. "good move mate". But no, he's not having that "they smashed them.ha!"this is usually followed by a fluffy description of what just happened...sigh
I HATE being overly competitive but have trashed him 7 games in a row purely because I cannot let him actually win a game. He seems to have settled down with th losses though, some have been due to horrendous luck and I think he is beginning to take the game in his stride...I hope!

fruitystu
11-09-2011, 22:32
During points-free multi-player games (yeah, I do that!) that one opponent who hasn't written down his choice of magic items and who has what, and as a result always seems to have the most advantageous combination at precisely the right time.

AndrewGPaul
11-09-2011, 22:58
I, seriously, would have taken whichever models I liked from the ones he left.

Going back to the OP, what I don't like in an opponent is them being a thief.

Kahadras
11-09-2011, 23:47
I think at the end of the day it's just people who don't really want you to enjoy the game. I've come across a few which I've decided that I just won't play again due to their attitude towards their opponant.

The good example had to be during a Bloodbowl league were I was drawn against a guy who just seemingly did everything in his power to make the game as difficult as possible. He wouldn't speak to me other than the absolute minimum was reqired, grumbled to himself about everything that didn't go his way and finaly threw a massive tantrum near the end of the game when I nearly took out his Rat Ogre. Claiming I was only doing it out of sour grapes because I was losing.

As it was I lost but it was his attitude that made the game horrible to play.

Kahadras

Duke Ramulots
12-09-2011, 00:16
Going back to the OP, what I don't like in an opponent is them being a thief.

Taking abandoned property isnt alwys stealing.

ImperiusDominatus
12-09-2011, 00:43
I, seriously, would have taken whichever models I liked from the ones he left.
Wow, really? That would probably elevate you to one of the worst people to play against. It's kind of hard to take the moral high ground when you think stealing somebody's models is fine just because they're a sore loser.

But anyway, there's not much more I can add to this thread. I'll just echo the people that said cheaters; there's really not much worse than that. My most hated thing is when people try to conveniently forget rules that put them at a disadvantage and hope that I don't notice.

kanebbcksc
12-09-2011, 01:29
I had a drill sergeant years ago whose philosophy on stealing and theft was as follows; If someone leaves their locker unlocked, or belongings unattended and someone takes them, then it is their fault for failing to maintain accountability of their stuff. He called it acquisition... Someone "acquired" my shorts, spandex, and T-shirt while I showered one day. I mentioned it to said drill sergeant, and he said that while it was f'ed up and gross for someone to take my dirty PT clothes, I should have maintained better accountability. Needless to say, after this I began locking my dirty clothes in my locker, and just walking to the showers in my towel! Silly, but it isn't exactly an immoral philosophy. If some dumb**s left his stuff lying around and someone acquired it, well I wouldn't blame them. I personally wouldn't take it as I am a believer in the idea of what goes around comes around, but other people have no such compunctions. I will often ask for a 5 minute smoke break during games. I would definitely not like it to happen to me. However, I am an easy-going gamer, and I don't argue much or rules-lawyer. I just play to have fun, and if I come across someone I don't have fun playing, then I finish the game and rarely ever play them again!

Duke Ramulots
12-09-2011, 01:47
I had a drill sergeant years ago whose philosophy on stealing and theft was as follows; If someone leaves their locker unlocked, or belongings unattended and someone takes them, then it is their fault for failing to maintain accountability of their stuff. He called it acquisition... Someone "acquired" my shorts, spandex, and T-shirt while I showered one day. I mentioned it to said drill sergeant, and he said that while it was f'ed up and gross for someone to take my dirty PT clothes, I should have maintained better accountability. Needless to say, after this I began locking my dirty clothes in my locker, and just walking to the showers in my towel! Silly, but it isn't exactly an immoral philosophy. If some dumb**s left his stuff lying around and someone acquired it, well I wouldn't blame them. I personally wouldn't take it as I am a believer in the idea of what goes around comes around, but other people have no such compunctions. I will often ask for a 5 minute smoke break during games. I would definitely not like it to happen to me. However, I am an easy-going gamer, and I don't argue much or rules-lawyer. I just play to have fun, and if I come across someone I don't have fun playing, then I finish the game and rarely ever play them again!

A large portion of my income is from scrapping, so I agree with your drill sergeant.

Imperial Stormtrooper
12-09-2011, 03:31
That's why I like this edition so much more than the abortion that was 7th edition. It requires you to have backup plans.

Knight doesn't always take Bishop anymore, and in fact pawn can take queen if queen moves into pawn's square if luck is not on your side (forcing you to fall back to Plan B and if you don't have Plan B then you are getting ready to lose)

Sigged just because of how truthful and awesome that statement is.

At my local gaming store there is a huge amount of people who refuse to play fantasy just because they hate 8th from the one or two games they played of it. I for one, really like 8th edition, not saying that I didn't like 7th edition, but there was a reason why I called 7th edition "Knight-Hammer", I really can't say I miss it.

Laurela
12-09-2011, 05:11
1. Backseat gamers for sure.
2. People who randomly pick up your models to inspect them. At least ask first please.
3. People who don't write down their army list and/or bring their army book with them.
4. And finally, people who quit playing after turn 3 because they think they've lost.

MOMUS
12-09-2011, 06:04
I had a drill sergeant years ago whose philosophy on stealing and theft was as follows; If someone leaves their locker unlocked, or belongings unattended and someone takes them, then it is their fault for failing to maintain accountability of their stuff. He called it acquisition... Someone "acquired" my shorts, spandex, and T-shirt while I showered one day. I mentioned it to said drill sergeant, and he said that while it was f'ed up and gross for someone to take my dirty PT clothes, I should have maintained better accountability. Needless to say, after this I began locking my dirty clothes in my locker, and just walking to the showers in my towel! Silly, but it isn't exactly an immoral philosophy. If some dumb**s left his stuff lying around and someone acquired it, well I wouldn't blame them. I personally wouldn't take it as I am a believer in the idea of what goes around comes around, but other people have no such compunctions. I will often ask for a 5 minute smoke break during games. I would definitely not like it to happen to me. However, I am an easy-going gamer, and I don't argue much or rules-lawyer. I just play to have fun, and if I come across someone I don't have fun playing, then I finish the game and rarely ever play them again!

Is it your fault when someone throws a brick through your window, because you didnt leave them boarded up?:rolleyes:

Anyway, i dislike opponents who cant have fun and those that are loud. Some nights i need earplugs at my local club and its not even the person im playing against.:(

The bearded one
12-09-2011, 08:20
Is it your fault when someone throws a brick through your window, because you didnt leave them boarded up?:rolleyes:

I think that's called a reductio ad absurdum :)

AndrewGPaul
12-09-2011, 09:03
I'm not sure it is. Something simply being unattended isn't a valid defence for theft. Not in my opinion or MOMUS', and not in the eyes of the law either, otherwise shoplifting wouldn't be a crime.

In general, the fault lies with the person comitting the act, not with someone who may have "made it easy" for you.

On a personal level, having a gaming environment where there's such an air of suspicionthat you've got to keep a hawk-like eye on your property every second doesn't sound like somewhere conducive to having a relaxed, fun game.

The bearded one
12-09-2011, 09:15
No, he still has a point, but it is a reductio ad absurdum nonetheless, using an example as preposterous as he could think of.

While the person stealing your unattended stuff is at fault of course, you'd also be partially to blame for leaving it unattended in the first place. However in a gaming environment you should be able to leave your things unattended for a little moment without having to worry about it being stolen.. though if you leave your army and walk off and leave it standing 'till closing time and a friend has to take it away for you, then it is quite likely stuff is going to be missing.

Andy p
12-09-2011, 10:03
This is an idealism ive seen around quite a bit in my time, but the problem with it is that it reinforces this idea of excusing criminals of well....being criminals.

Gaming or not, you should be able to trust the people around you enough to be able to leave things out from time to time.

Blaming someone for being naive or forgetful and leaving their things out is ok to an extent, but the real blame and accountability should always be on the thief themselves.

ImperiusDominatus
12-09-2011, 10:12
No, he still has a point, but it is a reductio ad absurdum nonetheless, using an example as preposterous as he could think of.

While the person stealing your unattended stuff is at fault of course, you'd also be partially to blame for leaving it unattended in the first place. However in a gaming environment you should be able to leave your things unattended for a little moment without having to worry about it being stolen.. though if you leave your army and walk off and leave it standing 'till closing time and a friend has to take it away for you, then it is quite likely stuff is going to be missing.
But that's not how it works. You're not 'partially to blame' if something of yours is stolen, regardless of how careless you might be. Especially if you've left your stuff in the care of a friend and in what you consider a trustworthy environment.

Taking somebody's stuff just because they're acting immature is not in any way whatsoever justified, no matter how you try to look at it.

The bearded one
12-09-2011, 10:32
Taking somebody's stuff just because they're acting immature is not in any way whatsoever justified, no matter how you try to look at it.

Of course it isn't, I'm not implying it in the least. You should be able to leave your gamingstuff unattended in an environment like a gaming club or store. You shouldn't be expecting things to be stolen if you turn your back a moment, though if you just walk off like the guy Makure fought (who walked off and left his army behind. A friend packed it up at closing time) the likelyhood of something being nicked does increase due to such carelessnes. It's still not justified, but you are playing the odds that something happens by leaving it for several hours, even if it's just a little kid in the store who goes "oh, shiney". Heck, my local GW store had to paint up a new Ork Warboss every month or so :p . You're not accountable in legal terms or anything, though it does sound like something a parent would say ;) "well, you shouldn't have been so careless! Now eat your vegetables"

But if for example you were to forget your bag and leave it on the street and it goes missing then, the response in my opinion ought to be "stupid, stupid, stupid! I shouldn't have left my bag on the street!" , not "o noes, civilisation is rotten! It's like Soddom and Gomorrah I tell you! What did I do to deserve this? Smite the criminal, o Lord, for society is evil!" :p

RanaldLoec
12-09-2011, 11:23
If its not yours, if you didn't but it, receive it as a gift then its not yours. If you decide to deprive a person of their belongings the choice is yours.

Yes take reasonable precautions to safe guard your property. But the choice to steal always remains, it is the thief that decides to steal. Just because an item is left unattended does not mean you have the right to take it.

We spend a long time, making and painting our models.

Taking them is not a characteristic of a bad opponent, its the characteristic of a thief.

Mirbeau
12-09-2011, 13:47
Not much, I like all sorts, simply people who fully lose sight of the fact we are playing a game, to enjoy ourselves.

psycho7384
12-09-2011, 13:56
I dont' like it when someone says " it's not a big deal either way' but then insists that it goes their way. I thought it wasn't a big deal? Or when someone execpst other to take care of their things. My buddy does this all the time. He leaves his models sitting on my shelf even thought he has a safe place to put them and then bitches when something happens to them. Put them away if your so concerned about it. And the thing I hate the most is people who have a problem with rule lawyers. Why are you so oposed to someone who is only trying to make sure everyones playing by the rules? It makes me think that their trying to hide something and they don't want anyone to find out.

IcedCrow
12-09-2011, 14:26
Because Rules Lawyer are people who try to take advantage of the rules and reword the rules to give them an advantage.

There is a difference between playing by the rules, and lawyering rules.

BigbyWolf
12-09-2011, 14:28
People who have the gall to beat me.

How dare they ruin MY game!

IcedCrow
12-09-2011, 14:38
Sigged just because of how truthful and awesome that statement is.

At my local gaming store there is a huge amount of people who refuse to play fantasy just because they hate 8th from the one or two games they played of it. I for one, really like 8th edition, not saying that I didn't like 7th edition, but there was a reason why I called 7th edition "Knight-Hammer", I really can't say I miss it.

Just noticed this, and thanks =) Knight-hammer is pretty apt for 7th edition.

"Warhammer, the game of fantasy cavalry battles"

The bearded one
12-09-2011, 14:48
How about charge-hammer? :p

- charge!
- ???
- profit!

vorthrax
12-09-2011, 17:53
Simply list the things which you prefer not to encounter during a gameElitism .

drear
12-09-2011, 18:54
players who use ld test focused armies. now its a tactic dont get me wrong. make me panic off the board.
but when its somthing they do every game, to win by turn 2 because everything panicced off the board..its not fun.
yes that tactic works. now try somthing new?

players who will trash talk about their army before a game or even when no game is going on. ill buy a new unit, and they will go on and on about what specific unit they would take to destroy it and beat me.
they ignore every variable and just assume every game will be a pitched battle 1 on 1 between 2 units.
its not fun ..its not even a discussion , its just sombody saying hes better.

people who dont paint their armies..this ones a personal thing.
i find playing a painted army an amazing experiance. even if its just a unit or two thats finished.
facing grey plastic just makes it a game of risk or monoply ..nothing is unique or interesting.

kids..there are some shining gems of younger players at my local shop, players who know how to play and will, and do beat me alot.
but theres always the ones whos parents never told them to shut up, or never told them other people could be right..etc
one kid tried telling me a ressurection orb in his necrons meant he wouldnt phase out ever.
one kid pushed sombody because they beat him in combat..

Gazra
13-09-2011, 03:55
Re: the theft thing, I'll use the analogy of WiFi. I'm not saying I (or anyone else) have a right to steal an unsecured signal, but if you're going to leave it open you shouldn't be surprised if it happens. The person stealing it is still definitely in the wrong, but the person allowing the opportunity to even come up is not doing everything they could to protect themselves.

Immature players, in general are a pretty big pet peeve.

popisdead
13-09-2011, 23:49
People who critizise gaming skills. I don't care I'm not the top gamer (I do fine). I play for fun and don't want to spend my life devoted to a single hobby.

People who critizise painting styles or talent. If you want pink space marines who cares?

People who chuck dice at my nicely painted models knocking them over. If you chuck dice you're an idiot.

lordfeint
14-09-2011, 02:18
The only thing that puts me in RAGE mode is the 2 loudmouths in EVERY STORE that have the Goku vs. Superman Fight Club going on and just will NOT shut up and end up bugging everyone in the store.

I've been fortunate enough to not have to deal often with cheaters, but we do have THAT GUY that always bemoans everything that beats him as being cheese and next in line for a nerf.
(I play Dwarfs, he HATES my cannons, despite being regarded as the cheesiest player himself in the store.. I'm talking the guy who drops 20 skaven w/ slings at our monthly Mordheim cheese)