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venusianfurs
02-06-2005, 11:37
How is this done? I mean, I know the High Lords of Terra must deliberate for ages before all being in agreement, but what would they actually deliberate over? Why and when would they decide to create a new chapter?
Also, the business is done on Mars by genetors, but how do they do it - what's the exact process, and how long would it take?
Do they take genes from any marines, or would it have to be the chapter masters, dreadnoughts or someone old enough?
And can genes be taken from any chapter, ie a recent one, or must they come from original first founding stock?

athamas
02-06-2005, 12:08
i cant remember everything but....


when they wish to make a new chaptr they select a gene stock... say ultramarines..

they take these gene seeds and implant them in 'volenters' who are used to grow more gene seeds, this proces of using 'volenters' goes on till they have enough geneseeds to implant enough ppl to make 1000 marines, [so 1500+ seeds because of 'acidents']

they then creat the marines as normal, and IIRC they spread the first of them around a few chapters as scouts, to give them live training, then they bring them back, and assemble the chapter!

sometimes they will take a capitan and he will be chapter master, along with his cronies making up the company staff and capitans!

Typheron
02-06-2005, 12:29
Why and when would they decide to create a new chapter?

as the need arises i would think, in part to perhaps replenish lost chapters who have been wiped our, or are close to being wiped out. They also from time to time create chp[ters as an experiment, the exorisits i think are a chapter of marine composed entirely of induviduals who have been possed by deamons and then had the deamon exorsised from them giving them a greater understanding and protection from chaos.

Other chapters have also been founded to combat long term threats, there are serveral chapters located arround the EoT who were created and tasked with specifically guarding the area from the threat of chaos.


Also, the business is done on Mars by genetors, but how do they do it - what's the exact process, and how long would it take?

It takes about 50-100 years, induviduals are implanted with an approperate gene stock from the stores kept on mars and held immobile in vats of what must be nutrients or something. thewre not so much volenteers as born for the task of creating a new chapter. you get 2 geneseeds from each person, one at about 20-30 years and one later on, normally harvested at death.

once a sufficient amount of geneseed for the new chapter is accumulated then as athamas said they crea6te the first marines and spread them arround for there training. there then brought back together as the core of the new chapter. The size of the chapter at this point is very small and so there not much in the way of combat duties going on for them, they get a homeworld or a chapter fleet from mars and then they begin the process of recruiting the bulk of the chapter aided by mars. This is the bit that take a while as it takes as long as they need to get enough stable marines together to form a fighting force. Its normally at this point that things can go very wrong and any serious mutations can show within the geneseed at which point the entire chapter may be terminated.


Do they take genes from any marines, or would it have to be the chapter masters, dreadnoughts or someone old enough?
And can genes be taken from any chapter, ie a recent one, or must they come from original first founding stock?

they take the geneseed from a bank of samples thats kept in a really heavily defended vault somewhere on mars. Every chapter is required to provide a tithe of geneseed per year to mars for genetic testing and storage in case a chapter suffers critical losses and must be re-built or a new one founded. The geneseed comes randomly from the chapter, although chapters such as the blood angels pick there gene seed carefully as to show only the best to mars. The geneseed can come from any chapter and normally only one type of geneseed is used, nasty things can happen when geneseeds are cross bread such as the cursed founding where the geneseed was tampered with to try to imporve it and all the chapters founded ended up with either mutations or they have a curse following them about.

the geneseed is normally grouped under a founding legion for storage purposes unless theres a noticeable change in the gene stock. Ultramarine genestock is prefered as its the most stable of all the geneseeds. None of the trator legions gene stock is used, its stored in a sealed stasis vault in case the gene seed itself was the cause of the fall to chaos.

Avenging Dentist
02-06-2005, 19:58
Actually, recent fluff has somewhat loosened the restriction of using geneseed from one donor Chapter:
"Though the particulars of a new Founding are shrouded in secrecy and arcane ritual, it is known that all of a new Chapter's genetic make-up is not always from the seed of one donor Chapter. Instead, a new Chapter may represent a genetic cocktail of the gene-seed of others. Although purity testing is rigorous in the extreme, it is possible that these disparate genetic elements may react with one another at a later date, in ways quite unforeseeable by their creators."
(US WD 302, page 75 - Index Astartes: Rogue Sons)
I was kind of surprised at this, since I had always thought that only one chapter's was used. However, it's canon, so I suppose it's possible now...

Inquisitor Samos
02-06-2005, 20:10
Well, since from the background a large majority of Chapters are originally derived from the Ultramarines Legion, it might not be as bad as it sounds using different Chapters....... they could all well have the same "Parent" stock from their own Foundings, so their gene-seed might not be all that dissimilar anyway.

Kinstryfe
03-06-2005, 04:03
My understanding of that snippet was that each marine has the same combination of organs in them, but all organs are not necessarily from the same genestock.

For example, the Imperial Fists are lacking a few of the geneseed organs (they can't spit acid or hibernate, iirc), so a new chapter may be made primarily of Dorn's geneseed, but contain those missing organs from Ultramarine stock.

That made more sense to me than having marines of completely differing seeds in one chapter. Of course, I just realized that the preceding posts may have realized that as well...

~Kinstryfe

Talos402000
04-06-2005, 10:00
I agree with pretty much everything that was said except to add that new marine chapters are trained by the Mentor Legion.

venusianfurs
04-06-2005, 12:23
Where's this from?

salty
04-06-2005, 13:02
I didn't think it was required to produce a tithe of geneseed every single year, I thought it was something like every 10 or 20 years? I'm quite likely wrong, but if there are just 1000 Space Marines per chapter, and geneseed can be harvested only once (as per the "volunteers"; this is the bit that may be wrong!) during the lifespan of the Marine, then in a very short space of time, there will be no Marines with geneseed left to be harvested except the dead ones!

Salty :)

athamas
04-06-2005, 13:38
hence the phrase..

'the only good marine is a dead marine!'



yeah.. i trust you got the rite idea with 'volunteers!'

Typheron
04-06-2005, 13:47
Gene-seed can be harvested twice from a marine, they have 2 glands for it. The first is normally taken out just after they mature and the second is taken out at the time of death normally, i know the 2nd is located in the back of the neck somewhere.

salty
04-06-2005, 16:42
lol, as an Ork player I agree that the only good Marine is a dead one, but surely harvesting them once every 10 years is preferable? I mean, that way you are assured an amount of geneseed coming in over a long period of time (unless teh chapter is wiped out of course).

Salty :)

taedore
28-08-2005, 21:25
Btw, I am trying to collect a Mentor Legion army, but nowhere does it say the Mentor Legion are the ones doing training. They test all new equipment that Mars sends out for the other chapters but nowhere does it say they train new chapters.

Brother Othorio
29-08-2005, 02:01
Btw, I am trying to collect a Mentor Legion army, but nowhere does it say the Mentor Legion are the ones doing training.

damn you beat me too it (i actually had a go at doing a Mentor Legion force a few years back, but gave up when i realised i couldnt paint white) ~ tho i shall add that it is an impossibility for the Mentor Legion to have trained any fledgling chapters for the simple fact that they are a product of the most recent founding and therefor wouldnt have had the chance.. tho it does make sence that they will be involved in subsequent foundings in some way

Kage2020
29-08-2005, 03:39
Incidentally, you can find a similar thread on 40kOnline here (http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php/topic,94754.0.html). Funny number crunching to be had to throw some of the information from GW into a bit of a different light.

Kage

Wiseman
29-08-2005, 05:07
genetors on mars spend 100 years creating enough seed for the chapter, using slave humans held in large bottles of nutrients until finally they can start implanting them into marines. Now what i want to know is who decides whose the boss of the chapter and the chaplains and such....

Flame Boy
29-08-2005, 12:09
I would imagine that the senior Adeptus Mechanicus Genators would screen the candidates for intelligence, reliability, physical prowess and spiritual stability to hand-pick the officer ranks within the fledgling space marine force. It would end up like the Olympics followed by a series of written exams I guess... :D

Wiseman
29-08-2005, 12:17
thats gota suck, how would ya feel owning all the events and then getting done because your an idiot

Kage2020
29-08-2005, 23:33
genetors on mars spend 100 years creating enough seed for the chapter, using slave humans held in large bottles of nutrients until finally they can start implanting them into marines.
Well, it's actually half that period as the above link indicates... :D

Kage