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SlaaneshSlave
04-09-2011, 02:14
I tried out a new, unconventional Skaven list today that is magic strong, but has no bunker. Got some conversations going at the store today. We wondered what the reaction would be to it on WarSeer. It is strong, but is it overpowered? Is it worse than other armies with 2 Lord level casters? No unbreakable unit must make it "softer"?

So, without further ado...


Lords

General Warlord - 100
- Warrior bane
- Charmed Shield

Grey Seer #1 - 320
- Power Scroll
- Talisman of Preservation

Grey Seer #2 - 320
- Power Stone
- x2 Warpstone Tokens
- Skalm

Heroes

BSB Chieftain - 129
- Halberd, Shield
- Rampager's Standard
- Goes with Rat Ogres

Plague Priest - 129
- Flail (wish I had points for Censer)
- Dispel Scroll

Core

x50 Skaven Slaves - 102
- Musician

x50 Skaven Slaves - 127
- Musician
- Shields

x40 Clanrats - 270
- Full Command
- Shields
- Warpfire Thrower

x40 Clanrats - 265
- Full Command
- Shields
- Poison Wind Mortar

x5 Giant Rats - 23
- Packmaster

Special

x18 Rat Ogres
- Master-Bred Rat Ogre (Champion, 18 total ROgres)
- 4 Packmasters
- Skweel Gnawtooth (total 5 Packmasters)

Rare

Hellpit Abomination - 250
- Warpstone Spikes

Warp-Lightning Cannon - 90

Summary
Points - 3000
Models - 218
Levels of Magic - 9
Fortitude - 5

ftayl5
04-09-2011, 02:45
Looks... interesting.

Have you tried a game with this list?

I think 2 level 4's and a level 1 is massive overkill on the magic.
On average you'll get 7 dice ( + 1/2 chance of a channelled dice) which means that there's simply no way that all of your wizards will play a role. And if you roll poorly for magic then that'll be a huge chunk of points wasted (for that turn at least)

The warp tokens will help with this certainly, but I think the list would be much better if you spent the 320pts of unnecessary grey seer on more... anything. Some Gutter Runners would be nice, maybe another rat dart or some Plague Monks.

About the Rat Ogre horde though: Very competitive, nigh impossible to stop in combat and if Skweel gives them regeneration then they're gonna go and kill anything they touch (save perhaps T8 Saurus Warriors)
HOWEVER. If they don't get regeneration, they'll be a huge target and with T4 and no save shooting will be a big threat.
For that reason I'd advise casting Warpstorm as much as possible and try to sneak the Storm banner into your list (35 Stormvermin with the Storm Banner is exactly 320pts, hint hint)

Just my thoughts.

SlaaneshSlave
04-09-2011, 05:43
Played it today against a Demon army. Demon conceded on turn 2.

On turn 1 I got 5 on winds of magic. Used a Power Stone and with 7 dice cast the 13th irresistibly. He lost his Horrors bunker with both casters, 1 was his general. Seeing that he could not survive seeing 2 13ths a turn, he charged me with everything at top of turn 2.

My HPA held up his horde of Demonettes with Herald. My slaves with Grey Seer lost to a DP and Fiend of Slaanesh, but the Grey Seer did not die & they held. My Rat Ogres killed his horde of Bloodletters with BSB Herald to a man. He had no casters, no general, no BSB, and lost 1200 points. I was down 23 points in giant rats and a warpfire thrower. Game was over.

This was not a normal result. And to be fair, he was off his game. So, the conversation about my list starts...

So, the horde of Rat Ogres is worth its 800 points. Skweel gave me poison, but I don't think he is needed. This unit has 61 Str5 attacks before stomps, or the characters. It has 2 weaknesses. 1) Can't take on the top tier deathstars in the game (Chosen w/3+ ward, Regen GG, etc.). 2) Very vulnerable to massed shooting.

To assist with the 1st... The 2 Grey Seers are kitted to cast the 13th once or twice a turn regardless of winds of magic. I am willing to throw several warp tokens and kill my Seers when needed. Skalm is taken b/c I will be taking damage. Few units can survive loosing 4D6 models a turn for many turns. Once the Seers die, then the Rat Ogres clean up. And can use Slaves to slow down the deathstar a turn or 2.

If I face a shooting heavy army, my problem is very different. No real way to protect the Rat Ogres, as hoping for regen from Skweel isn't a plan. So... Rampager's Standard on the BSB. With reroll on charge distance I should be able to be in combat by turn 2.

Seems to be an interesting build. Will be fun to see how it work out over time.

ftayl5
04-09-2011, 10:25
Yes it's a very interesting list. If you do play more games with it, be sure sure to tell us the results.

rakmial
06-09-2011, 20:23
I'm confused as to why Rogre hordes are worth the enormous investment - aren't hordes best in point-efficiency when they only have a single attack anyway? It seems wasteful to have supporting attacks from rogres when they could be mashing away in the front rank. I much prefer to use them in pairs, like chariots. Makes your opponent think twice about devoting any large spells or shooting at them, and they get their full amount of attacks. And, if they die, its less than a 100 points lost, rather than an autosurrender XD

Dominic1905
06-09-2011, 21:15
I'm confused as to why Rogre hordes are worth the enormous investment - aren't hordes best in point-efficiency when they only have a single attack anyway?

I think you're getting confused, yes, hordes are better for infantry when they only have a single attack, as if the have more than one the effectively lose it. However, rat ogres a Monstrous infantry, which means they can make up to 3 supporting attacks (which is all the attacks they have), so the lose very little efficiency (unless they gain an attack thanks to skweel (I think they can))

Back on topic, it doe seem to be a very good list, I like using rat ogres in my army list as well.

This may be just a personal thing, but if you dropped an ogre and found sounds points elsewhere, would you consider giving your warlord a bonebreaker, seems like a good idea to me.

spikedog
06-09-2011, 21:55
I used to use a similar list to this although without the 2 seers (as I play in a friendly environment) but I was finding that people were so scared of the RO unit that they rarely let it reach combat untouched. I found that in fact it rarely made combat with much of the back rank at all. So I have started using units of 9 ROs in a 3x3 formation. They still get shot at but the enemy has to now split their fire between more targets and I find a similar number if not slightly more reach combat, plus of course it gives you more tactical versatility and less of a hit when you lose a unit to an insta-kill spell etc.

rakmial
07-09-2011, 19:48
I think you're getting confused, yes, hordes are better for infantry when they only have a single attack, as if the have more than one the effectively lose it. However, rat ogres a Monstrous infantry, which means they can make up to 3 supporting attacks (which is all the attacks they have), so the lose very little efficiency (unless they gain an attack thanks to skweel (I think they can))


D: I never read that rule before - slap me silly, that's pretty good.