PDA

View Full Version : When are 2 Level 4 Casters OP?



SlaaneshSlave
04-09-2011, 02:23
At our local store we play alot of 3k games. That size works really well with 8th ed. I have noticed a trend of armies taking 2 Lord level casters.

I have been playing around with a horde of Rat Ogres (18 of 'em). Realized today that I could take that unit and 2 Grey Seers, so I tried it out today.

Rat Ogres are generally considered soft, or at least not the best unit Skaven has to offer. Took no Bell or Furnace. Really had no good place to "hide" my Seers. And only 1 HPA. So, is this (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316335) soft enough to take 2 Grey Seers at 3K?

What is the OP line where you can take 2 Lord level casters? When is it not friendly anymore? Is anytime good?

Tzeentch Lover
04-09-2011, 02:54
Uh, probably as soon as you modify the winds of magic roll.

The rebellious 2d6 PD roll cares little for the number(and/or quality) of wizards you have. ;)

Don Zeko
04-09-2011, 05:45
Yep. In general, you're wasting your points if you either over-invest or under-invest in magic, since your power dice pool is (mostly) unaffected by the number mages. I suppose there are a couple of exceptions, though. Two level 4's allow you to mix and match lores in ways that might lead to some OP combos (enfeebling foe + Dwellers, Miasma + Purple Sun and so forth), but you're usually not going to have enough dice to go around if you have more than a level 4 and a level 1 or 2 casting.

Vsurma
04-09-2011, 07:07
OP when your playing 7th edition...

8th cares not if you spend 300pts or 1000pts on mages, you still only get 2d6 dice to cast with.

Harwammer
04-09-2011, 09:12
OP when your playing 7th edition...

8th cares not if you spend 300pts or 1000pts on mages, you still only get 2d6 dice to cast with.
I don't know about that, a few armies have ways of significantly increasing their PD pools. Rolling 2 fours with a +4 modifier on power dice generation gets real messy for the opponent! Also, by taking two level 4s you'll have a huge range of spells to choose from whilst a failed cast/dispel wouldn't be so crippling for the phase.

I can see Miasma spam, Pit of Shades and Purple sun being pretty interesting. So would be Caress and Bjuna combined with the shadow's debuffs. I imagine the best thing about comboing death with other lores is you can use the lore attribute to refresh your dicepool. Add in herdstone shard, rod of power, etc for a head start and you'll be laughing (manically).

Vsurma
04-09-2011, 11:42
True but it is rarely cost effective and pretty much never op.

I did myself run a list with a slann, tetto'eko and 3 lv1-2 skink priests at a tournament, I think my mages cost 1100pts out of a 2400pts army.

It worked (2nd place) but only because of tetto'eko redeployment rule, the cost of an additional lore level mage is likely to be 300+ points, it will rarely pay itself off.

Haravikk
04-09-2011, 11:55
Only if you're using them to force off really broken combos I suppose. Otherwise you're most likely just hurting the rest of your army by spending so many points on the two wizards, so while you'll have a definite advantage in the Magic phase, you may struggle in the others.

Chain
04-09-2011, 12:01
2 lvl 4 Supreme sorceresses i could see pretty dangerous

one taking the Dagger


The opponent is sure to focus on Power of darkness

Oberon
04-09-2011, 15:37
2 grey seers can both have 13th spell, going for it twice a turn could hurt. One with power scroll, the other with power stone, or something.

SlaaneshSlave
04-09-2011, 17:17
2 grey seers can both have 13th spell, going for it twice a turn could hurt. One with power scroll, the other with power stone, or something.
And that is my strategy. Along with Warp Stones. I expect 1, or 2, will blow themselves up. But I'm OK with that.

popisdead
14-09-2011, 21:06
so mostly this is an issue of being a Skaven player, not taking 2 lvl 4s in particular

lovedinplaster
14-09-2011, 22:17
Idk.. It seems pretty redundant running two seers.. You could better spend your lord points on spamming warlords.. Or take a verminoord for point saturation.

I think a grey seer.. A plaguepriest and a engineer can work wonders.. If you have an army that can fit them

EnternalVoid
15-09-2011, 05:22
Two lord magic users are not necessarly back, but can be if you don't make plans. And of course certain armies do it better then others. Like said already, it works better if you have a combo for it. I have taken two high elf Archmages before, a Lv4 and Lv3, and between the Silver Wand on the Lv4 and Seerstaff on Lv3 I had a pretty good chance of getting the magic spells I needed to build the phase I wanted. On top of it the Banner of Sorcery made it a little easier to get the Power Dice i needed.

The only times I have seen two Seers taken is either for the dual 13th spells or in a campaign we had when the Skaven player wanted to protect his General *important to the campaign* but wanted crazy magic. He used one Seer all high risk / high reward style and had his general safe as back up for when either the first Seer died or could not finish the job.

Frankly
15-09-2011, 05:27
so mostly this is an issue of being a Skaven player, not taking 2 lvl 4s in particular

Not really, I'm looking in taking dual slann list in 3k games.I'd also look at taking 2 x lords in 3K VC if I ever play them again.

I think the idea is to have the ability to cast 2-3-4 'must stop' spells. i.e. 2 x 13th spell for example.

For me with dual Slanns it'll be to cast debuffs for my ranged attacks. Rumination and death lore + power scroll etc, I might be able to have enough dice to get where I'm going in the magic phase.

This is all theory at the moment. :)

CrystalSphere
15-09-2011, 08:03
If you have two lvl4s with the same lore, you get all the spells (nothing to chance) plus the default spell double, so you can cast it two times. I find this incredibly useful if you plan to base your army on getting certain spells off, and using certain lore. Another bonus is being able to have 2 arcane items, and in the case one mage is killed, you still get +4 to dispel. It is a lot of points but i find it is worth it, as it makes for a reliable magic phase that you can base your army around.