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Orkushun
04-09-2011, 14:06
Hows this for a Skaven army to start with and later build up on? need some advice

Skaven Army

1 Chieftain @ 122.0 Pts
Halberd; Battle Standard
Armour of Destiny [50.0]

29 Clanrats @ 235.0 Pts
Spear; Light Armour; Shields; Standard; Musician

1 Clawleader @ [8.0] Pts

1 Weapon Team @ [65.0] Pts
Poisoned Wind Mortar

29 Clanrats @ 155.0 Pts
Light Armour; Shields; Standard; Musician

1 Clawleader @ [8.0] Pts

2 Rat Ogres @ 88.0 Pts
Frenzy

1 Rat Ogre Packmasters @ [8.0] Pts
Whip; Light Armour

1 Doomwheel @ 150.0 Pts

Models in Army: 66
Total Army Cost: 750.0

rakmial
06-09-2011, 20:31
1. Your battle standard bearer (BSB) cannot be your general, so your list is illegal.

2. Clanrats ought not to have spears AND shield, as you're only allowed to use one in combat. Also, skaven champions are only good for accepting challenges and then dying, and there's not much need for that with this list.

Bubbasan
07-09-2011, 04:53
Clanrats are only allowed to use spears OR shield in close combat? I have never heard of such a thing. Please tell me where this rule comes from

Yrrdead
07-09-2011, 05:23
Clanrats are only allowed to use spears OR shield in close combat? I have never heard of such a thing. Please tell me where this rule comes from

You've never heard of it because it doesn't exist, rakami is mistaken. Though he is correct about the general bsb thing.

ftayl5
07-09-2011, 05:36
Clanrats are only allowed to use spears OR shield in close combat? I have never heard of such a thing. Please tell me where this rule comes from

Indeed it is not a rule, I believe he is just saying that it's a bad idea because they cannot get a parry save from the shield if they also have a spear.

My thoughts on the list:

I would drop the spears on the Clanrat unit. They're not a good investment IMO as a Clanrats main role is to simply stick around and try to survive, not actually kill anything themselves. Not only does a spear not help in this role it actually makes them worse as they lose the parry save and become more expensive. Hence I would suggest just taking Hand Weapons and Shields.

Your BSB cannot be your general which at this points level simply means that you probably can't fit in a BSB, unless you want a LD 5 Warlock as a general.

As to the Chieftan himself, I would get rid of the Armour of Destiny and spend the points on Slaves. 50pts for that + the 25 for BSB = >30 Slaves! Which would be of much greater help to you than a 4+ ward save on 1 character.

Hope this is helpful.

Jolly Puggles
07-09-2011, 07:40
In low-points games, Stormvermin shine a lot brighter than in higher points games...I'd recommend an upgrade/downgrade; turn one of those Clanrat units into Slaves and the other into Stormvermin.

30 is also quite small for a Skaven infantry block and 2 Rat Ogres is more likely to get shot than see any useful action, so I would drop them to boost the size of my main-block infantry. I tend to go for an average of 10pts (or less!) per model in my army...yours is a few models shy of that average, which isn't neccesarily a bad thing, but you may find that casualties hurt a lot more than, perhaps, they could.

The Doomwheel is a bit of a risky choice. With only two units to support it, it could end up careening across the board only to get mashed up into tiny bits before you can bring the rest of your force to bear. It depends on what you're up against really. An alternative to dropping the Rat Ogres is dropping the Doomwheel...150pts will get you another 3 Rat Ogres and supporting Packmasters, which would turn the pair of R.Ogres you have now into something really very scary for this points level.

As has been mentioned, a BSB can't be the general. For characters, if you want a BSB at all, you can either go Warlock+BSB or Chieftain+BSB. Either way, the BSB is probably better off taking a cheap magic banner (e.g. BoEF) or not taking any magic items to keep your points down; he's already worth 170 victory points to your opponent before you add any gear and at 750pts that's much more significant than at higher points levels.

If it were me, however, I'd avoid a BSB altogether and go for a Warlord and Warlock. Few armies will be fielding Lord level choices at such low points, so in theory he should outperform, or at least match, most other characters, even if only equipped with mundane gear.

A Warlock can be vulnerable, but if you protect him well, Warp Lightning can be devastating at 750pts, especially if you have a W.E.Condenser. Keeping him at lvl.1 is probably a safer bet than bumping him up to lvl.2, again to keep points down and most of the other Ruin spells aren't that impressive at 750pts (Death Frenzy is more of a liability, Cracks Call won't have any big units to target, etc.).

grhino
07-09-2011, 08:25
I agree with Jolly but I'd highly recommend the Doomwheel, simply because it is awesome and really suits skaven. And quite powerful and versatile at only 150 points... Also, I'd drop the BSB and just take a Plague Priest instead... both good for magic and combat...

Jolly Puggles
07-09-2011, 08:31
Also, I'd drop the BSB and just take a Plague Priest instead... both good for magic and combat...

Ooo...hadn't thought of that. I don't run any Pestilens stuff myself (which is why I didn't think of it), but in low points games a Plague Priest would be invaluable. Tough in combat and a spellslinger. As your General, however, you would have to be careful not to throw too many power dice around when casting to avoid potential Miscast mayhem.

Not too fluffy when combined with a Doomwheel though...

rakmial
07-09-2011, 19:47
I believe he is just saying that it's a bad idea because they cannot get a parry save from the shield if they also have a spear.
.

What he said - I phrased my previous post badly.

KidDiscordia
08-09-2011, 00:53
There is nothing wrong with 30 clanrats at this point size or any size if you don't skimp on units, though I would get rid of the spears.
I would consider dropping the Doomwheel, and BSB. The Doomwheel is erratic and while perhaps in character for Skaven, I would not use it a this point level. One good cannonball hit and it finished. Consider picking up:

A Warlord (Sword of might perhaps)
At least one unit of slaves
Add 2 Rat Ogres and a Packmaster
A Weapons Team if point can be juggled. PWM or Warpfire are the two I prefer.

rakmial
08-09-2011, 03:50
There is nothing wrong with 30 clanrats at this point size or any size if you don't skimp on units, though I would get rid of the spears.

I agree that 30 is fine, but spear-wielding CR can be pretty hurty with Bless with Filth or some other augment spell, and particularly against an enemy who has been Withered. I often use them to protect a weak skavenslave flank.