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View Full Version : need help with a 1500 pt HE armylist against skaven!!



remrem
04-09-2011, 18:22
Hello everybody,

I've got a big problem: I play many 1500 pt battles with my HE against skaven. I usually lose :cries:. I think my armylists are bad, so i will ask you for some help.

The skaven player uses most of the time 2 regiments of 40 slaves, a big unit of clanrats, nightrunners and plague monks.


Here's my army list army list:

Lords

Prince 192
barded elven steed, lance, shield dragon armour

Heroes

Mage
lvl 2, Seerstaff of saphery. (high lore)

Core

24 Lothern Sea Guard 337
full command, shields

10 archers 115
musican

Special

18 Sowrdmasters of Hoeth 300
full command

8 Dragon Princes of Caledor 290
full command

Rare

1 Repeater Bolth Thrower 100

The prince is going to join the dragon princes and the mage the archers. I choose usually the spells Flames of the Phoenix and curse of arrow attraction.

help is very welcome

grhino
05-09-2011, 12:51
The Curse of arrow attraction may not be the best choice - perhaps the ward save is more useful since the main thing you want to do in this battle is outlast the enemy. Against the army you're playing against flames will be very handy.

What you want to do is ignore most of his army and concentrate on those parts that give you victory points. I would personally drop the dragon princes and take a nice big unit of spearmen instead. Might as well drop the prince - those dragon princes may be useful as a 5 strong (no command) flanking unit but I would not spend more points on cavalry in this matchup since he will be steadfast for a while.

With horde armies, cutting off the head is usually a good tactic and Kohril is very good for that. On the other hand, you could consider Caradryan (especially if facing a grey seer) for joining your biggest or most expensive unit (SMs, that would be).

I would not bother with the archers since he will kill them if he reaches them and they would probably only kill a handful of rats before which he will not miss. Get ranks on your units to deny his steadfastness - spears are the best for this, by far.

remrem
05-09-2011, 14:58
thank you very mutch!!
so i'm gonna drop the prince and take korhil, but need i also white lions??
The archers and the dragon princes are also gonna be droppen, but need the seagaurds, must they also be dropped???

thx

Edit:

The most damaging unit my brother(the skavenplayer) is using is a doomwheel. He uses that one everytime and almost always with great succes.
He also uses posioned mortars and sometimes a grey seer, plague furnace or a poxrat riding lord with a very good magical items combo.

witchunter180
05-09-2011, 22:14
As grhino says, aim for the head; warlords, cheifs, engineers, grey seers. Pop them and use anything that makes your opponent take Ld/Panic tests and his troops will run off the board. Also, spearmen are a better option than sea guard, as they're cheaper and you wont get many shots with the speed skaven move at.

Speaking of Panic tests... I would recommend taking a decent amount of pheonix guard. The ward saves help vs all the magic attacks coming your way. I'm a skaven player, and I use a lot :D But more to the point, pheonix guard causes enemies to take panic tests, and skaven w/o their leaders run much faster lol

remrem
06-09-2011, 06:13
@witchhunter:
Thanks, i'll take no seagaurds, but fear doesn't cause the skaven to panic, only there ws is going down to 1.
i'll post a new army list this evening. But are i supposed to take Korhil or Caradyn??

remrem
06-09-2011, 15:52
Here's my new army list:

Lords

Archmage 225
The seerstaff of Saphery

Heroes

Korhil, captain of the white lions 140

Noble 116
bsb, shield, heavy armour

Core

40 Spearman 385
shields, full command

Spelcial

18 Swordmasters of Hoeth 300
full command

18 White lions of Chrace 300
full command

Total: 1496

Korhil is going with the WL, the BSB with the SW and the mage with the spearman.

grhino
07-09-2011, 05:43
Why not take two blocks of spearmen + one unit of swordmasters with some additional support troops, like that 5 strong DP unit? That unit is effective in taking out units like a doomwheel... Also, what lore do you use on your archmage? Death could be effective against skaven (taking out the head). Or the lore of life, to keep your own troops alive...

If you do not make radical changes to the latter list I'd still recommend PG over WL against skaven. More staying power will win you the day. They can also work against a doomwheel btw (just absorb the initial charge)

TheDrugLordX
07-09-2011, 07:03
Skaven does NOT fear either white lions or swordmasters - against them they're like candy, ie, they're expensive troops who die horribly against the dreaded 13th spell, which is the most destructive thing in the whole skaven arsenal. Spearmen and sea guard, heck even archers, beat the crap out of anything the skaven can field in combat (maybe not hellpits, unless supported properly by magic/characters).

Alas, your best chance of beating him is fielding huge units, or mounted units.

If he doesn't run cannons a dragon is a real trouble for the skaven. Try catching his general and watch his army run away in terror! A dragon mage might even be worthwhile here (altough they generally suck). However, you did say he ran a doom wheel, which has to be dealt with early (magic & shooting) or avoided (not too hard since you fly).

Unless he's geared up on magic protection (which actually is quite common) the Lore of Death can kill his characters relatively easily. High magic is never a bad choice though.

As for units, go with large units of spearmen to break steadfast and survive his cruel machinery, or medium-large units of sea guard coupled with some reaper bolt throwers. Supported by magic I prefer the second option, weaken his units (curse of arrow attraction or just flames of pheonix) and disrupt him from casting the dreaded 13th spell by casting your drain magic spell - always do this last!! The annulian crystel aids you more than the seerstaff in this situation. Since you have points left on him anyway, if you go for the shooting route, give him the reaver bow to aid shooting.

I'd rather stick with units of dragon princes and/or chariots than the elite infantry units you have. A good charge at the right moment and they'll break through and cause havoc.

grhino
07-09-2011, 08:21
I think everyone has reason to fear swordmasters... If the HE player is able to protect them and get them across the board in sufficient numbers, they will wreck pretty much anything the enemy may throw against them (excl. chariots).

TheDrugLordX
07-09-2011, 09:28
I think everyone has reason to fear swordmasters... If the HE player is able to protect them and get them across the board in sufficient numbers, they will wreck pretty much anything the enemy may throw against them (excl. chariots).

Try protecting them against the 13th spell... That's right, you can't! :p (unless you table them behind a bit of terrain somewhere).

My point is that regardles what elf you use against the skaven, you will do about equal amount of damage, hence the extra bodies will prove alot more worthwhile.

grhino
07-09-2011, 09:41
The thing is that spearmen are not so useful against all kinds of enemies and when it comes to that Swordmasters can deliver a high number of high Strength attacks...

But getting a mage with the seerstaff and Mindrazor can fix that. Possibly getting another mage with high magic can help you counter the enemies magic (especially with the Annulyian Crystal).

In that scenario, I'd actually agree fully with thedruglordX (what kind of name is that?!?) that spearmen are the way to go...

remrem
07-09-2011, 11:54
thanks for the replies!
The lore of death is also a good choice, but with the flames of the Phoenix, all models in the unit get a str 2 hit. When its cast on a unit with 40 models, then you kills about 13 models.
What are the annulyian cristal and the Mindrazor.

witchunter180
07-09-2011, 13:00
What are the annulyian cristal and the Mindrazor.

They are magic items, check Vaul's Forge section in the back of the HE army book.

I don't why everyone is so afraid of the 13th spell :D Yeah I rereead the fear rule, I was thinking 40k. But fear is still useful (don't forget that skaven players tend to use a lot of spears, so that'd be more potential attacks and you want to reduce their efficiency) and again the 4+ ward save will help you get accross the board. I like the sword masters but they don't have enough protection for what you're facing. Maybe if they had the full command and some magic items but thats a lot of points to sink in (thus my PG recommendation). White lions do hit hard, but for the points, stick with more spearmen as thedruglordx and grhino have recommended.

grhino
07-09-2011, 13:35
Mindrazor is a spell from the lore of shadow - allows a unit to use its Ld as S --> effectively gives you S8 spearmen...

Annulyian Crystal is a HE magic item that decreases the opponents spellcasting ability and increases your dispelling ability at the same time.

In that combo, you just need to get more spearmen and have you have no need for phoenix guard or any other higher S units... spearmen will do the job tremendously (remember you only really need the spell to work against opponents that require it --> your average small rat will be killed soon enough if facing off against a mass of HE spearmen).

remrem
07-09-2011, 14:32
@Grhino
youre right, it's a good combo, i'll try it. How many spearman do i need??

@Witchunter180
Everybody is so afraid of the 13th spell because you cant take any save against it, no armour saves, no ward saves and even no magic resistance saves.

grhino
07-09-2011, 15:15
You could go for a big horde and a smaller unit, but 2 units of 30 strong (6x5) should help you get going... another option that is quite effective is to start with 32 strong and have them deploy 8*4 so that all models can normally fight.

A horde of 50 in which all models can fight is off course the most intimidating for the enemy - but that comes in at a hefty price...

remrem
07-09-2011, 15:26
thanks for the reply!
i've got 24 spearman. I'm planning to paint everything first and the buy white lions or phoenix gaurds, and after that some spearmen. With one box and some spearmen from marktplaats.nl (a sort of Ebay) i'll have enough spearmen.

witchunter180
07-09-2011, 20:23
@Witchunter180
Everybody is so afraid of the 13th spell because you cant take any save against it, no armour saves, no ward saves and even no magic resistance saves.

I meant it as a joke ;)