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b4z
05-09-2011, 17:25
This is about the interaction between Speed of Asuryan and Thundertusk Numbing Chill.


Obviously with a High Elf Spearmen it goes:

1. Speed of Asuryan = Always Strikes First [+1]
2. Numbing Chill = Always Strikes Last [-1]

+1-1 = 0

So it strikes at Initiative 5.


Now... with a High Elf Swordmaster/White Lion etc.

1. Speed of Asuryan = Always Strikes First [+1]
2. Numbing Chill = Always Strikes Last [-1]

[now they are an Elf with a Great Weapon hitting at Initiative order... therefore...]
3. Great Weapon = Always Strikes Last [-1]

+1-1-1 = -1

So... do High Elves with Great Weapons Always Strike Last [when interacting with the Thundertusk Numbing Chill] ?

The_Lemon
05-09-2011, 17:39
Special rules, unless stated otherwise, are not cumulative. So AE will just strike at Initiative order without any rerolls.

Lester
05-09-2011, 17:53
Special rules, unless stated otherwise, are not cumulative. So AE will just strike at Initiative order without any rerolls.
This is what I've heard. Just like you can't get Frenzy, Poisonus Attacks, etc. to work twice, ASF/ASL can't work twice

b4z
05-09-2011, 17:56
The_Lemon and Lester

Warhammer Rulebook P.66 Paragraph 4

"Unless otherwise noted, the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative"

And to add to the opening post...

Warhammer Rulebook P.66 Always Strikes Last

"If a model has both this rule and Always Strikes First, the two cancel each other out and neither applies so use the model's Initiative."

But what if the model has Always Strikes First [Speed of Asuryan], Always Strikes Last [Numbing Chill], and Always Strikes Last [Great Weapon]

Lester
05-09-2011, 18:03
The_Lemon and Lester

Warhammer Rulebook P.66 Paragraph 4

"Unless otherwise noted, the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative"

Yes, that means Y and X other rules are cumulative, not that multiple instances of a single special rule are cumulative. An example of what you quoted says is how ASF/ASL are not cumulative, they cancel each other.

Makrar
05-09-2011, 18:06
From the FAQ


Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
“[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
the first paragraph.

Ergo the HE would strike in I order regardless of weapon

Lester
05-09-2011, 18:12
From the FAQ



Ergo the HE would strike in I order regardless of weapon

And that explains my logic further. Thanks.

Scammel
05-09-2011, 18:27
The ASL incurred by great weapons is totally ignored by Speed of Asuryan, so it's ASF + ASL = strikes in I order without re-rolls.

b4z
05-09-2011, 18:35
Makrar wins.

I should have checked the FAQ.

For the record, I am happy about this outcome :)

Scammel although this is implied it is not specifically stated.