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psycho7384
06-09-2011, 13:22
The army rulebooks trump the rulebook correct?
In the army list section for sorcerers under magic it sayes that he may choose his spells from the lores. In other army books it is not written like this, HE for example. Nothing about this wording is mentioned in the WoC FAQ. So then can a Chaos Sorcerer choose their spells instead of rolling for them?

Harwammer
06-09-2011, 13:37
No. The BRB spells out how spells are chosen... It even goes so far as to erase spell selection rules written in 6/7th ed army books.

Althwen
07-09-2011, 09:50
The army rulebooks trump the rulebook correct?
In the army list section for sorcerers under magic it sayes that he may choose his spells from the lores. In other army books it is not written like this, HE for example. Nothing about this wording is mentioned in the WoC FAQ. So then can a Chaos Sorcerer choose their spells instead of rolling for them?

Haha, nice try. But no.

AnomalyOfAwesome
07-09-2011, 10:13
The only time you get to choose which spell you want is after rolling doubles. For instance, level 4 rolls 2,3,5,5. You would get spells 2,3,5 and then choose one of the remaining ones.

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 13:01
Ok, so I have to ignore that is says Chaos Sorcerers get to choose their spells even though I can not find anything written by GW to dispute this execpt the rules for choosing spells which HE are aloud to bypass with The Seerstaff. I know what your gonna say. The Seerstaff is a magic item that grants the bearer special rules. But the magic entry under Chaos Sorcerers is telling us the spells and lores they can use. So am I aloud to ignore the lore restriction too? It's all written it the same paragraph.

Harkon Fenton Mudd
08-09-2011, 13:24
yes the BRB does state that spells are generated randomly with a D6 per spell (with the exceptions of bought spells, magic items and army specific rules)...Pg490...

Question is does the BRB overrule the WoC army book..?

Harry

Tregar
08-09-2011, 13:29
It does- P134 says to use the rules from that page rather than the rules in your army book for army selection, including spells.

Harkon Fenton Mudd
08-09-2011, 13:40
for the sake of completeness its the side bar on the left side of pg134 that says the BRB takes presedence...

but just a slight concern...what is the wording for how WoC sor's spell selection..?.its just that the last line in the 'Wizards and Spell Lores' section of pg134 says that if a wizard is allowed to choose then he needs to do so before the game...I could see this being a problem if the actual entry of the sor states he can pick...

Harry

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 13:51
Actually pg.134 reads: If you have a wizard that is allowed to choose specific spells, you must select what spells they are at the time you pick your army.
And that is the question, can a Chaos Sorcerer choose their spells?

And I read nothing about exceptions for choosing spells instead of rolling, execpt for rolling doubles, on pg.490.

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 13:53
Actually pg.134 reads: If you have a wizard that is allowed to choose specific spells, you must select what spells they are at the time you pick your army.
And that is the question, can a Chaos Sorcerer choose their spells? The army book says they can.

And I read nothing about exceptions for choosing spells instead of rolling, execpt for rolling doubles, on pg.490.

Harkon Fenton Mudd
08-09-2011, 13:53
thats what i just said...

psycho...what is the exact wording of the WoC entry for spell selection..?

Harry

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 14:01
Sorry it wasn't up when I replyed. It says a chaos sorcerer my choose his spells from the lore of fire shadow death heaven or his mark lore if he has one

hamsterwheel
08-09-2011, 14:05
Relevant from the WOC book

Page 106
Using Chaos Magic
"Sorcerers may choose their spells from the Lores noted in their army list entry.

Sorcerers with a Mark of Chaos always generate spells from the Lore appropriate to that mark; for example, a Sorcerer with the Mark of Tzeentch generates spells from the Lore of Tzeentch."

Page 119
Sorcerer Lord Entry
Magic
"A Sorcerer Lord is a Level 3 Wizard. He may choose his spells from the Lores of Death, Fire, Shadow, Heavens or, if he has a Mark of Chaos, must choose from the Lore appropriate to that mark."

The Standard Sorcerer basically has the same text except he's a level 1.

I cannot find any text in the FAQ/Errata that changes the text that is relevant to this issue. They only thing they removed is that if you roll doubles, you don't need to reroll.

Harkon Fenton Mudd
08-09-2011, 14:10
and its that wording that goig to cause the contention...

With Empire it says the wizard can 'choose a lore'....whilst Brets can 'use' lores (depending on if Prophetess or Damsel)...

Its a stretch and I doubt many would see it or even play it that way...

Harry

hamsterwheel
08-09-2011, 14:22
and its that wording that goig to cause the contention...

With Empire it says the wizard can 'choose a lore'....whilst Brets can 'use' lores (depending on if Prophetess or Damsel)...

Its a stretch and I doubt many would see it or even play it that way...

Harry

I would agree that not many will play it that way, however, if it came down to a discussion of rules, psycho7384 is correct per RAW that chaos sorcerers can apparently choose their spells. At least, I can't see anything to dispute it.

Loopstah
08-09-2011, 14:30
Only if they don't choose a marked lore as then they have to generate spells according to pg 106.

Not that I support the choosing spells part but if some Tournament ruled in favour of choosing you could use pg 106 to support generation of the chaos lore spells.

hamsterwheel
08-09-2011, 14:39
Only if they don't choose a marked lore as then they have to generate spells according to pg 106.

Not that I support the choosing spells part but if some Tournament ruled in favour of choosing you could use pg 106 to support generation of the chaos lore spells.

True but every wizard generates spells. The rules in the BRB under Spell Generation include both randomly generating spells and picking spells. Page 106 in the WOC book does not use the word "randomly generate".

Yrrdead
08-09-2011, 18:44
USING CHAOS MAGIC
In this section, we look at Chaos spellcasters, how they are used in the game, and the spells available to them. The following spell lores are treated exactly the same as those published in the Warhammer rulebook unless otherwise stated, and only Wizards whose rules say they may use these spell lores may generate spells from them.


Way to cherrypick.

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 20:34
Cherrypicking??? "Unless otherwise stated" It is stated in three different spots, that I counted, that they may choose their spells.

Yrrdead
08-09-2011, 21:03
The "unless otherwise stated" is referring to the spells themselves.

On a side note , do you honestly think that you have discovered something that no other warhammer player has seen in the last 3 years? That everyone who has played either with or against WoC has been missing this. Especially something as powerful as the ability to choose your spells.

Lester
08-09-2011, 21:22
You seem to have a reading comprehention problem. Let's digest the key sentence in the book.

"The following spell lores are treated exactly the same as those published in the Warhammer rulebook unless otherwise stated, and only Wizards whose rules say they may use these spell lores may generate spells from them."


"The following spell lores" is referring to the Chaos Lores. Therefore, they bit that reads "unless otherwise stated" is affecting the Chaos Lores, so the Main rulebook lores follow all standards for spells in the main rulebook, which includes Spell generation.

But what about the Chaos lores? Later on, we get this: "Sorcerers with a Mark of Chaos always generate spells from the Lore appropriate to that mark; for example, a Sorcerer with the Mark of Tzeentch generates spells from the Lore of Tzeentch." Therefore, the Chaos Lores, who where noted that could follow different rules, still are spells that are generated like any other.

So...try to no read to much into things trying to get weird interpretations. :)

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 21:22
Actually it's referring to the Chaos lore's if you read it carefully. And yeah maybe I am the first to notice it. It wouldn"t be the first time something got missed. Look I'm not trying to cheat I'm just making sure I'm not being cheated. I'm just trying to interpet the rules as I read them, and I read the word choose. Maybe I'm wrong, and thats ok, I just wanna make sure I'm playing properly.

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 21:46
Your right I do have a reading comprehention problem. Thanks for rubbing it in and making me feel oh so good about my self. That was after all the whole point of asking the question, to make sure I was reading thing right and not missing something. I'm so glad you people are so friendly and helpful.

Lester
08-09-2011, 21:51
Your right I do have a reading comprehention problem. Thanks for rubbing it in and making me feel oh so good about my self. That was after all the whole point of asking the question, to make sure I was reading thing right and not missing something. I'm so glad you people are so friendly and helpful.
No insult meant. It was a legitimate reading comprehension problem, never called you dumb.

psycho7384
08-09-2011, 22:17
"The following spell lores are treated exactly the same as those published in the Warhammer rulebook unless otherwise stated." Two paragraphs later... "Sorcerers may choose their spell from the lores noted in the army list entry." Is this not otherwise stated?

Lester
08-09-2011, 23:43
"The following spell lores are treated exactly the same as those published in the Warhammer rulebook unless otherwise stated." Two paragraphs later... "Sorcerers may choose their spell from the lores noted in the army list entry." Is this not otherwise stated?
You are cherry picking again. Reread what I said. Reread the entire section in the book. Not trying to be a jerk or anything.

psycho7384
09-09-2011, 05:02
I did reread it and this is what it means to me.

"The following spell lores are treated EXACTLY the same as those published in the Warhammer rulebook unless otherwise stated"
This says the Chaos lores follow ALL the rules that apply to the lores in the BRB. Not just generating, but casting, dispelling... ALL the rules...Unless otherwise stated.

"And only wizards whose rules say they may use these spell lores may generate spell from them"
This says you can only use the Chaos lores if it says so in the army list entry. It's irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

Second paragraph Changes the word wizard to sorcerer cause thats what their called in the WoC armybook and says they can wear armour and are good fighters. Irrelevant.

The thrid paragraph is only one sentance, "Sorcerers may CHOOSE THEIR SPELLS from the lores noted in the army list entry."
Remember "unless otherwise stated"? Their stating otherwise right here.

"Sorcerers with The Mark of Chaos always generate spell from the lore appropriate to that mark"
This says if I have that mark I have to use that lore. In the BRB under generating spells they mention rolling, buying, and picking. So don't tell me generating mean only rolling.

So how is it that I'm cherry picking?

Riddle me this. How come when they use the word choose in the BRB it means I get to choose something? Yet when they use it here it means I don't get to choose something I have to let dice rolls choose for me? Please I'm only trying to understand the rules as they are written and I'm not trying to twist it into my own interpretation.

Sexiest_hero
09-09-2011, 05:32
You are in the wrong, psycho7384. It ok, I get stuff wrong ll the time. But just fellow gamer to gamer. Trying to get you interpretation, pas your gaming group will just make you the guy no one wants to play. It's just lil plastic men, and Chaos has a bad enough rep with the chosen star.

Yrrdead
09-09-2011, 07:24
I apologize. I just went through and reread everything. Your question is a valid one. From the standpoint of a new player your point is correct it does clearly say you may choose your spells from "X" lores.(paraphrased) My WoC book shows the same thing. The current FAQ has no mention of it in the Errata or Amendments.

However this is not the case. I can't show you any page number and I'm sorry I would normally never even give an "answer" like this with no reference but Chaos Sorcerers(and Lords) generate their spells randomly just like everyone else. And I can't prove it.

Tregar
09-09-2011, 11:22
P134 still dispels this notion. It says that you follow the normal method of spell selection unless allowed to pick -specific- spells. And it does specifically say specific, whereas the poor wording in the Chaos book doesn't say you may choose specific spells. So, play it by the main rulebook, and don't read too much into the wording for "choose".

Lester
09-09-2011, 13:11
I did reread it and this is what it means to me.

"The following spell lores are treated EXACTLY the same as those published in the Warhammer rulebook unless otherwise stated"
This says the Chaos lores follow ALL the rules that apply to the lores in the BRB. Not just generating, but casting, dispelling... ALL the rules...Unless otherwise stated.

"And only wizards whose rules say they may use these spell lores may generate spell from them"
This says you can only use the Chaos lores if it says so in the army list entry. It's irrelevant to the topic being discussed.

Second paragraph Changes the word wizard to sorcerer cause thats what their called in the WoC armybook and says they can wear armour and are good fighters. Irrelevant.

The thrid paragraph is only one sentance, "Sorcerers may CHOOSE THEIR SPELLS from the lores noted in the army list entry."
Remember "unless otherwise stated"? Their stating otherwise right here.

"Sorcerers with The Mark of Chaos always generate spell from the lore appropriate to that mark"
This says if I have that mark I have to use that lore. In the BRB under generating spells they mention rolling, buying, and picking. So don't tell me generating mean only rolling.

So how is it that I'm cherry picking?

Riddle me this. How come when they use the word choose in the BRB it means I get to choose something? Yet when they use it here it means I don't get to choose something I have to let dice rolls choose for me? Please I'm only trying to understand the rules as they are written and I'm not trying to twist it into my own interpretation.
And I still refer you to what I explained. The unless stated bit is ONLY for Chaos lores, don't stretch it to other Rulebook Lores. Read the sentence following the "may choose" bit and it explicitly says the Chaos Lores generates spells. And yes generation means rolling. The other methods (buying, loremaster/signatures) aren't generated because you don't go through a method to determine which spell you get a.k.a. Generation.

psycho7384
09-09-2011, 17:16
@Sexiest_hero
Well I wouldn't wanna play with someone who was trying to cheat me out of something that they can't prove I'm wrong about. Why should I bend for them when their not willing to bend for me? The wording doesn't change just because you don't like it.

@Yrrdead
You admit that you can not prove me wrong yet you still claim I am wrong. Why???

@Tregar
The Seerstaff doesn't ues the word specific either. How do you explain that??? The wording is everything. I don't have the game desingers on speed dial. So it's not like I can call them up and ask what them ment by something. I can only go by the words they used to explain it. One time they say "use spell from lores..." and another time "choose spells from lores..."

@Lester
Ok, but under sorcerers (lord and hero) and DP in the army list entry under magic it says "May choose their spells from the lores of fire, death,(hero) shadow, and heavens. Why do they keep useing the word choose if I don't get to choose? In other armybooks they say "know spells" or "use spells".

And I still ask How come when they use the word choose in the BRB it means I get to choose something? Like if I have two chatacters that have the same Ld I get to choose which one is my general.Yet when they use it here it means I don't get to choose something I have to let dice rolls choose for me?

H33D
09-09-2011, 17:41
Page 28, BRB - "SPELLS Each wizard knows a number of spells equal to his level, chosen randomly at the start of each battle."

So wizards choose spells randomly. Sorcerers choose their spells from X Lore. Since it doesn't specifically say that they don't do so randomly then you still must roll for these sorcerors.

I hope this helps.

eron12
09-09-2011, 20:04
Wow, we seem to have passed the point of question asking and moved onto ignoreing responses we don't like.

Cherry picking quotes and ignoring the rest isn't good rule reading. It says choose in some places (though always in reference to lores) and says generates in others. Unless you are trying to wiggle out some advantage, the rule seems clear.

Actually this would be a good example for the rules lawyering thread over in General.

Yrrdead
09-09-2011, 20:52
As much as I dislike our OP's posting style and aggressive stance, he still has a point. If someone just started the game , bought the WoC book what would they think?

Pg 134 has no bearing here other than the fact that if choosing spells it must be done at army selection.

Pg 28 - Nope Army Book overrides Rule Book.

Warriors of Chaos book.

Pg 106 - all terms referring to generating spells are in reference to the Chaos specific lores. All references to other lores use choose specifically.

Pg 119, 120 - consist with using the term choose. To quote;


Magic:
[...]He may choose his spells from the Lores of Death, Fire , Shadow, Heavens or , if he has a Mark of Chaos, must choose from the Lore appropriate to that mark.

Does anyone have the last 7th edition version of the FAQ's? Is anything mentioned in there in the errata that just got missed in the version switch over?

SanDiegoSurrealist
09-09-2011, 21:11
Using RAW would mean that Chaos Sorcerers don’t suffer miscasts results either because it says Wizard and not Sorcerer.

Lester
09-09-2011, 21:17
Using RAW would mean that Chaos Sorcerers don’t suffer miscasts results either because it says Wizard and not Sorcerer.
Wrong. Read under the Chaos Magic lore section, it says the term sorcerer refers to wizards.

EDIT:
Page 106 of the WoC Armybook, under Chaos Magic:
"The term 'Sorcerer' is used to describe Wizards who follow the Chaos Gods."

Tregar
09-09-2011, 21:30
@Sexiest_hero
@Tregar
The Seerstaff doesn't ues the word specific either. How do you explain that???

The Seer Staff rules say that you choose the spells instead of rolling for them. That's a specific exception to the rule that tells you to roll to generate.. If the Chaos book also said to choose the spells from the chosen lore, instead of rolling for them, we'd be in agreement here. But you're right, GW have worded this poorly if they intend for Chaos players to roll their spells.

Yrrdead
09-09-2011, 21:58
Beastmen - Pg 36 uses the term "May use spells from". Pg 85,83 use "May choose his spells"

Bretts - "Who can use spells"

DoC - "Can cast spells from". "Uses spells from"

DE - "Knows spells from"

HE - Pg 45"May choose their spells from High Magic , or any of the Lores of Magic"
Pg 91,93"May choose either High Magic or any of the eight lores."

LM - "Uses spells from"

OnG - "Use the Spells of"

Empire - "may choose their spells"

WE - "May choose spells from" "Must choose her spells from"

VC - "Spells are generated from" "Knows spells from"

Skaven - "can use spells from" "Can use Skaven Spells of" "casts spells from"


So it seems like they quite a few different statements to describe what lores casters in different books may take.

The important thing to take from here is that in all these cases of them using the word choose , they are using it in reference to the Lores themselves not individual spells. Though it is kind of vague and from a vacuum standpoint of a new player I understand how it could be confusing.


Finally you are left with two conclusions;

You are mistaken about this.

Or every person who has played this game with or against the following armies is wrong; High Elves, Wood Elves, Warriors of Chaos, and Empire.

psycho7384
10-09-2011, 05:15
Yrrdead, I apologize for my posting style and aggressive stance. I never ment to offend anyone. It just irritates me when people ignore whats written just because thats the way it has always been done. For all any of you know it was done wrong from the begining and snowballed from there. Most people just go with the flow to avoid conflict, and it's not until that one person says "no your wrong thats not what it says" before people stop, look, and think about it.

I've nerver tried to say WoC can choose their spells when playing a game, Ive always rolled cause thats the way it always been done, but in all fairness thats not what the book says to do.

I'm done with this thread. I thankyou all for your input and opinions. And happy Football season. GO BEARS!!!

Kalandros
10-09-2011, 09:49
Same thing was posted on TWF and locked after a while, no one's biting into this ridiculous thing.

Stop trying to find ways to cheat, this game is already pretty damn fail when it comes to rules, no need to kick it while its down.

Ahh, how can't they make a solid rules system like Warmachine/Hordes? No annoying RAW-Trolls like this guy here.

psycho7384
10-09-2011, 11:37
Same thing was posted on TWF and locked after a while, no one's biting into this ridiculous thing.

Stop trying to find ways to cheat, this game is already pretty damn fail when it comes to rules, no need to kick it while its down.

Ahh, how can't they make a solid rules system like Warmachine/Hordes? No annoying RAW-Trolls like this guy here.

How is applying the rules as they are written cheating, It seems to me that the people that are ignoring the way it's written are the ones cheating.

Lester
10-09-2011, 14:58
How is applying the rules as they are written cheating, It seems to me that the people that are ignoring the way it's written are the ones cheating.
Again, we are reading and interpreting the Armybook and Rules as a whole, not cherrypicking sentences apart and ignoring the rest to get twisted interpretations.

psycho7384
10-09-2011, 15:00
After rereading things over and over I would like to admit that I was wrong. Not because of anything any of you said, but because of my firm belief in RAW. The statement which I quoted over and over says "the sorcerer may choose his spells", not "the player may choose his sorcerer's spells". Seeing as the sorcerer is a little plastic model he can't choose anything. I HAVE SPOKEN!

Lester
10-09-2011, 15:19
After rereading things over and over I would like to admit that I was wrong. Not because of anything any of you said, but because of my firm belief in RAW. The statement which I quoted over and over says "the sorcerer may choose his spells", not "the player may choose his sorcerer's spells". Seeing as the sorcerer is a little plastic model he can't choose anything. I HAVE SPOKEN!
*facedesk* Really, that is the reason? Hahaha, ok. I'm done here.

Ravenar
10-09-2011, 17:53
Well I guess it was one way to get your post count up.... (irony is not lost)

eron12
10-09-2011, 18:48
I guess the right answer for the wrong reasons is better than the wrong answer for the wrong reasons.


Also I heartily second the GO BEARS!

H33D
11-09-2011, 07:01
How about the fact that the BRB says 'wizards choose spells randomly'?

Since WoC sorcerors get the awesome power of 'choosing their spells' that doesn't make them any different than any other wizard does it?

But I mentioned this earlier and you didn't listen then. But hey you came to the right conclusion even if it was in a weird way.

Avian
11-09-2011, 08:22
Pages 107-109:

"To randomly generate a spell from the Lore of [insert favourite Chaos deity here], roll a dice and consult the chart below."

Harwammer
11-09-2011, 11:37
I agree with Avian, the rules for 'choosing' spells from the chaos lores are given at the top of each entry (roll, reroll duplicates, if wanted swap any one for spell 1) which are then superseded by the rules for rolling spells in the brb (roll, swap duplicates, if wanted swap any one spell for sig).

It's clear to me that choose in WA:WoC means somethig different to 'choose' in the brb. Its unfortunate this one word has different meanings in relation to spell selection but that's Gee Dub for ya!

Yrrdead
11-09-2011, 21:20
Not that it matters but... The point of this thread was not the chaos specific lores btw. It was the Rulebook lores that Chaos sorc's have access too.

Harwammer
12-09-2011, 04:46
Not that it matters but... The point of this thread was not the chaos specific lores btw. It was the Rulebook lores that Chaos sorc's have access too.
Yes, but the chaos lores give us context as to what the word 'choose' means when used in the book in relation to picking spells.

Yrrdead
12-09-2011, 04:55
Yes, but the chaos lores give us context as to what the word 'choose' means when used in the book in relation to picking spells.

No the lines about generating spells and the specific instructions on how to generate spells on the relevant pages of the Chaos lores tell you how to pick those spells.

Iraf
12-09-2011, 07:33
GO BEARS!!!


Frak the Bears.

blackcherry
12-09-2011, 07:55
Ok. This is where RAI would come into play. If someone tried that on me, or I tried it on them, I would expect at least an angry look for being a dick.

Avian
12-09-2011, 08:04
Not that it matters but... The point of this thread was not the chaos specific lores btw. It was the Rulebook lores that Chaos sorc's have access too.
Well, we can see the wording in context:

p 119
"He may choose his spells from the Lores of Death, Fire, Shadow, Heavens or, if he has a Mark of Chaos, must choose from the Lore appropriate to that Mark."
(emphasis mine)

and p 107
"To randomly generate a spell from the Lore of Nurgle, roll a dice and consult the chart below."

So the same word is used for both army book and rulebook Lores and we can see that in the case of the army book Lores, that undoubtedly means to roll for it.

Thus the only consistent interpretation is that whichever Lore you pick, in whichever book, you roll randomly, and the 'choice' part comes in which Lore you get.

OldMaster
12-09-2011, 18:25
Pages 107-109:

"To randomly generate a spell from the Lore of [Khorne], roll a dice and consult the chart below."

:(

On topic, one would have to overlook a great many things in order to play as you state, dear psycho.

psycho7384
12-09-2011, 23:21
How about the fact that the BRB says 'wizards choose spells randomly'?

Since WoC sorcerors get the awesome power of 'choosing their spells' that doesn't make them any different than any other wizard does it?

But I mentioned this earlier and you didn't listen then. But hey you came to the right conclusion even if it was in a weird way.

Your right I didn't listen to you because you quoted the BRB incorrectly it says the usual method is to randomly generate. Pg. 490

psycho7384
12-09-2011, 23:28
:(

On topic, one would have to overlook a great many things in order to play as you state, dear psycho.

Could you name these great many things for me so I can see where I went wrong?

psycho7384
13-09-2011, 00:55
After further reading the paragraph is there for Galrauch who uses the Lore of Tzneetch and Fetus who uses the Lore of Nurgle. Choose is not used in their magic section thus the reason for the paragraph at the top of the lores. Why on the Lore of Slaanesh, I don't know. They wanted it all to look the same? So people didn't get confused as to why they put it on the other Chaos Lores but not that one? Because no one in their right mind would take a Sorcerer of Slaanesh? Who can say why GW does the things that they do?

Avian
13-09-2011, 03:17
Ha ha ha ha!

Would you like another straw to grasp at? "They wanted the lore to look the same as the other two." Ahahaha!

Yrrdead
13-09-2011, 04:02
Well, we can see the wording in context:

p 119
"He may choose his spells from the Lores of Death, Fire, Shadow, Heavens or, if he has a Mark of Chaos, must choose from the Lore appropriate to that Mark."
(emphasis mine)

and p 107
"To randomly generate a spell from the Lore of Nurgle, roll a dice and consult the chart below."

So the same word is used for both army book and rulebook Lores and we can see that in the case of the army book Lores, that undoubtedly means to roll for it.

Thus the only consistent interpretation is that whichever Lore you pick, in whichever book, you roll randomly, and the 'choice' part comes in which Lore you get.


Oh I agree, did you read my previous posts? I was just nitpicking because, aside from the OP trolling , the wording could easily be confusing to a newer player. And the confusing wording is relating to the treatment of rulebook lores not the lores in the book.

Avian
13-09-2011, 07:27
Yes, if you just read that one sentence and not the context, it can be confusing. However, if you read it in context of the rest of the magic rules in the army book and rulebook, it isn't confusing. This is shown by the fact that over three years of using the book, very few people have actually gotten confused. Unless they actively WANT to be, that is.

Harwammer
13-09-2011, 07:40
After further reading the paragraph is there for Galrauch who uses the Lore of Tzneetch and Fetus who uses the Lore of Nurgle. Choose is not used in their magic section thus the reason for the paragraph at the top of the lores. Why on the Lore of Slaanesh, I don't know. They wanted it all to look the same? So people didn't get confused as to why they put it on the other Chaos Lores but not that one? Because no one in their right mind would take a Sorcerer of Slaanesh? Who can say why GW does the things that they do?

I think you're wrong there. If you look at their full rules you'll see their wording is different because THEY are very different to normal chaos sorcerors.

Galrauch is essentially a loremaster so doesn't choose his spells using the process on page 108 (superseded by the new BRB rules). Festus is different as he always knows Curse of The Leper (his other spell being generated normally).

Your argument for Lore of Slaanesh (and Tz since Galrauch and Vilitch are both lore masters) are less sound than Shakin Stevens; You're saying GW put in the ~how to roll spells texts~ at the top of each lore just so Festrus can generate his second spell!

Also 'Each Wizard knows a number of spells equal to his level, chosen randomly at the start of each battle'. BRB page 28. Further context for what 'choose spells' means for chaos sorcerers.

Like I said earlier sorcerers chose their spells by rolling, swapping out duplicates for unused spells and with the option to swap any single spell for the default/ sig.

psycho7384
13-09-2011, 12:37
Ha ha ha ha!

Would you like another straw to grasp at? "They wanted the lore to look the same as the other two." Ahahaha!

I find this to be quite rude. Do you take pleasure in making fun of people who make mistakes? That is after all how one learns.

The bearded one
13-09-2011, 13:04
the easy way how I like to see it is "you may choose your spells from this and this lore....using the method of randomly generating as described in the armybook/BRB"

Althwen
13-09-2011, 13:51
I don't think anyone intended to be rude, Avian being one of the least rude people on this forum that I can think of. But it's kind of hilarious that a thread with such a strange topic and question, still persists. And that may have resulted in a lack of subtlety here and there.