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MrCarbohydrate
08-09-2011, 05:17
Hello.

I'm currently building a proper Empire army (IE, not Kislev or Albion, etc), and this is what I have for 2000 pts. I'm unsure if it's 'cheese' or 'horribly uncompetitive' (probably the latter), but I'll take feedback, as I have approximately 2 folks to play against up here. And this army hasn't had problems with either of them.

Lords:

Lvl. 4 Fire Wizard - 210
Lvl. 4 Metal Wizard w/Earthing Rod - 235
Total Lords - 445 (22.25%)

Heroes:

Empire Hero (General, FPA, Shld, Van Horstman's Speculum, Crimson Amulet) - 110
Empire Hero (BSB, FPA, Shld, Wailing Banner) - 135
Total Heroes - 245 (12.25%)

Core:

35 Halbrediers w/Command - 195
35 Halbrediers w/Command - 195
10 Handgunners - 80
10 Handgunners - 80
10 Handgunners - 80
Total Core - 630 (31.5%)

Special:
23 Greatswords w/Command - 260
Great Cannon - 100
Great Cannon - 100
Total Special - 460 (23%)

Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun - 110
Hellblaster Volley Gun - 110
Total Rare - 220 (11%)

Wailing Banner used as much to make the Greatswords, who the Heroes are with, immune to Terror as to actually cause it. The guns line up as speed bumps with the Hellblasters in the gaps to cause as much damage as possible, and hopefully slow up attackers so that Halbreds and GS can get on a charge. Cannons are in for Big Stuff. Cheers!

Walls
08-09-2011, 06:21
With a BSB and Ld 8, are you worried about really failing terror tests? In every way I'd rather have the LD banner and just reroll LD9.

theshoveller
08-09-2011, 07:39
I'll second the previous point - I think the Wailing Banner is too expensive for what it does.

I'm curious about the choice of Fire and Metal as your Lores - do you know who you're going up against? While Fire is a flexible, all-round choice, I feel Metal will be wasted against light/horde armies. I run two wizards in a Death/Light combination myself - the first for pure killing power (Wizard Lord on a Pegasus to get close and assassinate Battle Standards and Wizards), the second for its versatility (straightforward damage, combined with some of the best buffs).

m1acca1551
08-09-2011, 08:03
My problem would be 2 wizards lords is a tad presumptuous that you will be rolling high on the winds of magic for your casting dice... if you roll poorly you have got yourself a 445pt useless points sink.

I would run;

1 wizard lord
1 general: state troops gain access to magic banner (razor standard)

Captain: BSB
Battle wizard: level 2 with the crystal ball??? (allows you to reveal all items/secrets)
Warrior priest: yeah there expensive but hatred can be worth it
Or another captain

MrCarbohydrate
08-09-2011, 14:36
I appreciate the suggestions, as I'd been thinking about some of these as well...
and yes, if you've seen my Leadership rolls, anything less than Ld 10 worries me haha!

So drop the BSB standard for the Banner o' Swiftness (+35 pts). Drop Metal Wiz Lord (210 pts; put ERod with Fire Wizard). Drop Hero General (+110 pts). Also drop 1 Halbredier (+5 pts)

Add Empire General w/FPA, Shld, Sword of Sigismund - 140
Lvl 2. Fire Wizard - 100
Warrior Priest w/Meteoric Iron Armour and 2nd HW - 119

Maybe? Put the WP with one of the Halbred units.

Walls
08-09-2011, 16:24
Eh, I never underestimate the powers of 2 lvl 4's. I like the Lvl 4, Priest, BSB combo for characters. I would personally go with no magic banner and load up on protection for your BSB but that's more a personal choice. However, with the 3 characters you can afford an engineer to protect your 4 war machines.

Deathbysoup
08-09-2011, 17:56
I would keep the rod of power. I have a +4 d/spell dice army and the rod works so so well with it as I generally have dispel dice left over to store.

Morax
08-09-2011, 20:50
Hello.

I'm currently building a proper Empire army (IE, not Kislev or Albion, etc), and this is what I have for 2000 pts. I'm unsure if it's 'cheese' or 'horribly uncompetitive' (probably the latter), but I'll take feedback, as I have approximately 2 folks to play against up here. And this army hasn't had problems with either of them.

Lords:

Lvl. 4 Fire Wizard w/Earthing Rod - 235

Heroes:

Empire Hero (BSB, FPA, Shld) - 135

This is an illegal BSB build for an empire army. It states in the empire book that empire bsb's are not allowed to purchase mundane shields. Swap it out for the enchanted shield and you get closer to legal, swap it out for the dragon helm or armor of meteoric iron and you are legit.

Core:

35 Halbrediers w/Command - 195
35 Halbrediers w/Command - 195

I prefer mine hoarded up for the extra rank of attacks. Point for point, halberdiers are amongst the best core choices in the game.

10 Handgunners - 80
10 Handgunners - 80
10 Handgunners - 80

Rolling to hit was like so 7th eddition, like whatever... Seriously, you will find that with the new warmachine rules, mortars will kill a but load more than handgunners these days. I would highly suggest that you swap atleast one unit out if not two. If you do swap two units out, make up the points in bringing the halberdiers up to 40 or so and you should still meet core requirements.

Total Core - 630 (31.5%)

Special:
23 Greatswords w/Command - 260

Here is where you will want your warrior priest if you are going to include one. Hatred at strength 5 is better the hatred at strength 4. That being said I still feel that Halberdiers are a better expenditure of points then greatswords, but to each his own.

Great Cannon - 100
Great Cannon - 100

Always a solid choice for any aspireing empire general. With the above additions of mortars you will have a solid ammount of shooting.

Total Special - 460 (23%)

Rare:
Hellblaster Volley Gun - 110
Hellblaster Volley Gun - 110

Sup par in the current eddition. They just are not worth their points any more with loads of downsides and not many good sides. the possibilty of 30 shots is not as good as it used to be when you can get more HITS out of a large blast plate. If you insist on a hard hitting warmachine, go with the rocket battery. It will wind up killing more.

Total Rare - 220 (11%)

Wailing Banner used as much to make the Greatswords, who the Heroes are with, immune to Terror as to actually cause it. The guns line up as speed bumps with the Hellblasters in the gaps to cause as much damage as possible, and hopefully slow up attackers so that Halbreds and GS can get on a charge. Cannons are in for Big Stuff. Cheers!


I appreciate the suggestions, as I'd been thinking about some of these as well...
and yes, if you've seen my Leadership rolls, anything less than Ld 10 worries me haha!

So drop the BSB standard for the Banner o' Swiftness (+35 pts). This banner doesn't bring much to the table for an infantry unit. Best in the hands of calvary. If you insist on a magical banner take the banner of eternal flame as flaming attacks are invaluble in certain situations. Drop Metal Wiz Lord (210 pts; put ERod with Fire Wizard). The earth rod is a nice bit of insurance but, magic is not where an empire army wins its games. Magic and shooting to soften things up and a charge of large blocks of troops to finish them. A miscast gone bad will not hurt you as much as you are fearing. The Rod of power is a much better investment of points as it helps to stabilize a horribly unstable phase. Drop Hero General (+110 pts). Also drop 1 Halbredier (+5 pts)

Add Empire General w/FPA, Shld, Sword of Sigismund - 140

At strength 5 he is not going to be killing many characters with oly 3 attacks. Worse, he has only a 3+ save to keep him going. His primary job in an empire army is the hierloom he brings with, the high leadership on foot, and the ability to mince rank and file troops. FPA, enchanted shield, sword of strife and a potion of strength is a much better build for each of those functions. Costs around 163, gets him 5 attacks and for the one turn he really needs it he is strength 7.

Lvl 2. Fire Wizard - 100

Always take a level 2 to back up your level 4. The ability to get loremaster with any of the 8 lores in the core book for cheep is one of the strongest things the empire has going for them.

Warrior Priest w/Meteoric Iron Armour and 2nd HW - 119

There are only two builds for a warrior priest worth taking imho. Heavy armour and shield, to keep him cheap, and Armour of Meteoric Iron and great weapon, to add some strength 6 attacks to a unit.

Maybe? Put the WP with one of the Halbred units.

If you are going to include the great swords throw him in there for the reasons stated above.



Not a bad start to the empire as it follows along some very classic lines of thought. The lore of fire is a strong addition to the empire but it is overshadowed by already exemplary shooting that does the same role. I would take a look at other lores to include in a list with so much shooting already in it. Death is a powerful lore as it helps take out problem characters that the empire can sometimes struggle with. Life is an amazing lore as it makes fragile troops much more durable. Light is an amazing lore as it has almost no spells in it that an empire general cannot find a use for. Last but certainly not least, shadow is an amazing lore that can shift the tide of battles on it's own. I would look to one of these lores instead of fire and create a more dynamic approach for your army.

MrCarbohydrate
09-09-2011, 02:39
I totally missed the thing with the BSB.

Anyways, I appreciated your feedback, as my current Empire army is running 2 mortars and 2 cannons, and 3 blocks of Halbreds lol...I found Greatswords on sale for half off and was trying to find a place to use them.

It reads like I should just keep my current army, and not bother building this one. It'll save me money then huh?

The_Peacemaker
09-09-2011, 20:51
I love my fire wizzard, but I have not found him to be usefull as anything other than a level 1 or 2. You almost always choose fireball and then you can throw dice at that spell for 3d6 strength 4 fire hits. Whos laughing now mortar team....

Level 4 metal is fine. Even if your enemy doesn't have alot of armour. I can't remember the spell names but the swords one that increases to hit by one and the scaly skin one are great support spells. And then you have the last spell that turns hordes into gold statues on a 5+ - no saves!!!

Oh, and best combo with a lore of fire priest is to take a warrior priest and get hammer of sigmar so you can re-roll those firebal wounds. (If your opponents smart he will dispell this as much as possible).

The only magic banner worth taking on the battle standard bearer is the griffon one and then stick him in a horde so you can double rank bonus for combat.

Greatswords are awesome but I found in higher point games I use this setup:
25-35 greatswords: FC, leadership banner
General on foot: Greatsword, AofMI, luckstone, and whatever else. I try to keep him cheap. What I give him also depends on what I give my battle standard bearer since theirs only one AofMI and only one enchanted shield, and only one 5+ward characteristic test cape.

Warrior priest is a big bonus too. Hatred is good but its only first turn, chances are the greatswords will be in combat against the enemy elite units - this is where the stubborn comes in. I usually stick Magic Resist 2 or 3 on my warrior priest depending on points. Comes in super handy.