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Strategos
08-09-2011, 20:18
Hi all,

I'm going to start a Wood Elf Army, regardless of what everyone else is telling me to do. I like the models and the fluff and that's the type of gamer I am. I've been playing 40k for about a year now but have always wanted to get in to fantasy, just never had anyone to play with. I've contacted a club in my area and have to get an Army together over the next couple of weeks.

I'm looking for some advice on what the basic composition of a semi-competitive Wood Elf Army looks like. The club that I have contacted seem to be playing 2000-2500 points so if anyone could help me with this project I would be very grateful. Obviously I have ordered a rule book and Army book but they haven't arrived yet so the only resource I'm working with is Battlescribe and I don't have a clue what half the stuff does.

Thanks in advance.

thesheriff
08-09-2011, 20:51
Well, for starters, you will probably want a lord level Mage. In the current fantasy edition, lv4 mages are invaluable. They aid dispelling, and add some durability with the spells they take. I outfit mine with Wand of Wych Elm (which let's you re-roll dispel attempts) and Talisman of preservation (4+ ward save). And I flit between lore of beasts or life. For starters, pick one of them, play 5 games with that lore, and then swap to the other. Choose your preference once you've playtested both.

Heroes, you should be fine with a noble with a Battle Standard bearer, Shield and Armour of Destiny. Bsb's are great because any unit within 12" of it can reroll failed Ld tests. This included rally, fear, terror, stupidity and a whist of other situations. Since you can't have him with both a magic banner and magic items, the items are usually better to keep him alive. Especially since he's a squishy elf! (get used the fragility of WE btw :p)

You could put in other heroes if you wish. But, it's probably better if you stick with these two and spend the pts on more troops.

Now, core;

Almost every Wood elf army I have seen has glade guard in it. There pretty nasty close up. I take 4 units of 10 in my 2k games. But some people like more of them (mass bows) or a prevalence of other choices (dryads or Eternal guard w. A highborn). It is almost universally agreed glade riders are overprinted and pretty meaningless. So, if you take one piece of advice, it's not to use them.

Probably of note also, Dryads work best in small units, and eternal guard in big ones.

Special choices. Treekin are nails. Units of six are SWEET!But very expensive. No more than two units is usual. Big units of Eternal guard are also favourable.

Rare. Treemen, again, nails. And a pair of eagles are cheap and useful.

To summarize your "What's good Question";

Spellweavers
Noble with BSB upgrade
Glade guard
BIG Eternal guard
SMALL Dryads
Treekin
Treemen
Eagles

Hope that helps

And welcome to the Asrai!

thesheriff

Strategos
08-09-2011, 22:03
Thanks thesheriff I really appreciate the help.

So the only command you can take is the lord and bsb. Is there any need for a musician etc. Or I getting things mixed up.

Skarsgard
08-09-2011, 22:29
musicians are unit upgrades and are gold for your glade guard.

Allows them to attempt a swift re-form.

Spazo
09-09-2011, 07:08
For start i advice to buy:
2-3 boxes of glade guard
2 boxes of driads
That will give You backbone of army. I usually take two units of 20 archers with command group or 3 units of 12 archers with only musicians; driads are best in my opinion in small units - say 8 or 10 with a nymph for example.

I also use two small units of glade riders - they are very fast, reliable unit, but very vulnerable to enemy fire. You should use they vanguard and aim on enemy war machines, then harass enemy movement. More than once they shoot someone important with they longbows.

I used to use a wardancers - they WAS great in 5, 6, 7 edition. Now, however, they are too weak in defence - better leave them home, waiting for new army book :P

Treekin are very good, tough unit. With 5S, 5T, 4 WS, 3 I, save and ward on top they are really great - i use two units of 4 treekins.

Spellweaver with life magic is very usefull. His spells can give an egde in combat (+2/+4 T are nothing to laugh about), there is plenty targets to heal with lifebloom...

Treeman is really thorn in the @@$ for most enemies. Always use at least one, seen armies with 3 of them (two "normal" and one ancient).

Eagles are ideal for harassing enemy most powerfull units.

I usually also take an alterlord with Bow of Loren and Arcane Boodkins, 'cause
there are sometimes problem with enemys with very good armour save.

Artemis150
14-09-2011, 13:36
All good advice. If you want 40 Glade Guard and 24 Dryads, I think the best way to get them is by getting the battalion [do what you will with the Glade Riders, I'd recommend painting them really well and putting them on display or something, they're no good to your army. (Anyone else agree that they should get Glade Guard Longbows?)] Supplement this with a box set each of Glade Guard and Dryads. Four units of ten Glade Guard and three units of eight Dryads.

Preferably get a decent sized block or two in there, pick your favourite of either Tree Kin or Eternal Guard [preferably with standard bearer, War Banner, and a BSB Noble for +3 to combat resolution, all the benefits of BSB, and stubborn].

A Treeman is essential. If you're at least a little careful with one, it won't die and will annihilate most things it comes in contact with.

In a 2000 point army, it is possible to get an Alter Highborn with Bow of Loren and Arcane Bodkins as a Wood Elf equivalent of artillery to deal with heavily armoured things at a distance, as well as a Spellweaver Lv. 4. Neither one is upgraded as much as one may like, but it feels like a more versatile way to choose your lords to me. Although I do tend to get screwed on the magic front.

You probably won't be able to fit this in along with all of the above, but a useful hero choice is a Branchwraith with An Annoyance of Netlings and A Resplendence of Luminescents. [I may have my Spites mixed up there, but I'm going for +1 Dispel Dice and only hit on 6's in a challenge.] Her stats aren't too bad, +1 Dispel is very useful, and you'd be surprised how well she can tie up a lord in a challenge to stop Dryads getting eaten by enemy close combat lords. It would be lovely if they'd sort out the Lore of Athel Loren to make having her a Wizard at least remotely useful.

I really hope they bring out a new Armybook soon, because Wardancers look epic and I really want some.

Strategos
14-09-2011, 20:03
Thanks everyone. So what I'm looking at working towards is the following'

Lord - Spellweaver, lvl 4, talisman of preservation, wand of wych elm.

Hereos - Noble, shield, armour of destiny, battle standard bearer.

Core - 4 x 10 Glade Guard, musician(nothing else?).
- 3 x 8 Dryads, Branch Nymph.

Special - 3 x 3 Tree Kin.

Rare - Treeman.

Total: 2082 pts(according to Battlescribe, which I know can be incorrect)

Does this look right. To get it down to 2000 what should I be dropping, musicians from glade guard? And what should I do if I'm moving up to 2500? I really do appreciate the help by the way.

brightblade
14-09-2011, 20:12
Also worth considering is the orb of divination, what appears to be the most overlooked item. A free extra dispel dice when attempting to dispel a spell cast on three dice is superb. With a level 4 wizard you can really shut down opponents magic.

Another useful thing is the hail of doom arrow especially on a stand and shoot! Other than that what you have is looking good for a start! :)

Jericho
14-09-2011, 20:23
The Wood Elf BSB can't take a shield, magical or otherwise. Kinda sucks but it's confirmed in the FAQ.

Anyway, the advice given so far is generally spot-on. The cavalry options in the book are seriously lacking in durability, which makes them hard to use for their high points cost. The basic infantry are good enough to build around, Wardancers are even more of a glass cannon than before (ie. dangerous but extremely fragile), and all variety of tree units are pretty solid options.

I'd strongly consider Eternal Guard. They become Stubborn when led by a Noble/Highborn, which makes them pretty reliable. If they're getting a toughness buff from spells or items (Rhymer's Harp) then they are pretty reliable units.

A fairly typical Wood Elf list would have 2-3 small/medium sized units of Glade Guard, one medium/large sized unit of Eternal Guard and a smattering of Treekin, Treemen and Dryads for damage support. Characters are usually a Spellweaver, a BSB, and anything else you feel you are lacking in your army.

For shooting, don't forget the Hail of Doom Arrow or the Banner of Eternal Flame on your Glard Guard. These can be extremely handy when you run into something you shouldn't be messing with in combat (ie. Abomination/Hydra). You can't afford to feed your expensive pointy-eared troops to these guys, best to hit them at range or with Treekin/Treemen.

Anyway, welcome to the club. Wood Elves are very much a thinking man's army and are a challenge to use. Hopefully it stays fun and doesn't ever get frustrating for you or your opponents. It's not so bad now, but in 7th it could be boring to play Wood Elves who were so damn good at just avoiding fights and picking off small units for a minor win/draw. In 8th you are sort of forced to play a bit more directly, and for a number of reasons (starting with Stomp/Thunderstomp attacks) Treemen/Treekin became go-to units for this.

Strategos
14-09-2011, 20:32
Also worth considering is the orb of divination, what appears to be the most overlooked item. A free extra dispel dice when attempting to dispel a spell cast on three dice is superb. With a level 4 wizard you can really shut down opponents magic.

Another useful thing is the hail of doom arrow especially on a stand and shoot! Other than that what you have is looking good for a start! :)

Who can take these items?

Strategos
14-09-2011, 20:39
"The Wood Elf BSB can't take a shield, magical or otherwise. Kinda sucks but it's confirmed in the FAQ."

Do you mean the Noble?

"For shooting, don't forget the Hail of Doom Arrow or the Banner of Eternal Flame on your Glard Guard. These can be extremely handy when you run into something you shouldn't be messing with in combat (ie. Abomination/Hydra)."

Can you take these on all of your Eternal Guard squads?

"Anyway, welcome to the club. Wood Elves are very much a thinking man's army and are a challenge to use. Hopefully it stays fun and doesn't ever get frustrating for you or your opponents. It's not so bad now, but in 7th it could be boring to play Wood Elves who were so damn good at just avoiding fights and picking off small units for a minor win/draw. In 8th you are sort of forced to play a bit more directly, and for a number of reasons (starting with Stomp/Thunderstomp attacks) Treemen/Treekin became go-to units for this."

Thanks for the help and sorry about the questions. I literally have never played a game but thats going to change next thursday. I'll be heading down to meet all these new people who seem to be fairly tournament orientated.

Spazo
15-09-2011, 08:19
One Noble in the army can be upgraded to BSB (aka Battle Standard Bearer). VERY usefull model.

Upgrades like Banner of Eternal Flame, Hail of doom Arrow can be taken only once per army (unlike in the 40K).

Artemis150
15-09-2011, 09:51
I'd say immediately to drop the Branch Nymphs. In reply to whether to have any more command on the Glade Guard, Lord's Bowman is not quite worth it and a standard is only worth it if you want to give a unit a magic standard, because you generally don't want them in close combat.

Without the Noble's shield or the Branch Nymphs, I make it that you're on 2152 points. The best way, I'd say, to get rid of that is to either drop a unit of Glade Guard and swap out the Wand of Wych Elm for the Divination Orb, or drop a unit of Tree Kin [as insane as that sounds] and give a unit of Glade Guard that Banner of Eternal Flame, or basically mess with the extra points you get how you will.

I do love a good Hail of Doom, but the BSB loses his longbow. I seem to remember reading in an FAQ that you can give him a magic longbow in order to use the Hail of Doom with him. However, you do have to deal with Asyendi's Bane. Although pretty much never missing at the cost of something like a 1/72 chance of a wound sounds like a good deal to me. You would have to give up your armour for that, though, meaning that noble will have to avoid getting in close combat which could be a pain.

I'm not experienced with 2500 point armies, but most lists I've seen include a Great Eagle when they get that big. Point for point, I'd rather have a unit of Warhawk Riders [I may be wrong, I've never tried them out]. Also, I'm in agreement with Jericho about considering Eternal. I have 15 of them, but generally I wish I had a few more [maybe so I had 25?] to give them a rank bonus and generally make them more daunting. Also, it may become worth it to throw in a Highborn with The Rhymer's Harp, to give them a little more durability?

Sorry that my posts always end up quite long.

Strategos
15-09-2011, 10:11
Thanks Artemis150. No post is too long for me. I'm a beginner so the more detail, the better. I'll start by getting a few units of glade guard and dryads and try and get them assembled/painted. It seems to me here in Ireland it's better value to buy the individual boxsets from online discount stores as the battalion doesn't really save you any money when you aren't going to use the glade riders. The battalion is expensive here and I can't find an online retailer who delivers it to Ireland any cheaper than buying it from GW. I'll see how I get on and thanks again everyone.

Gaz Taylor
15-09-2011, 10:12
Core - 4 x 10 Glade Guard, musician(nothing else?).

I would really recommend not to take lots of small units of Glade Guard. Whilst it looks great you get four units to do your shooting, you actually have four units of T3 no armor models which die in a weak breeze. I would at least put them into two units of 20. Also Musicians are good as they let you swift reform which is brilliant for Wood Elves but I would look at adding a standard as you will be screwed in the break point scenario.

Artemis150
15-09-2011, 11:37
My problem with units of 20 Glade Guard is that you lose all the manoeuvrability. Units of ten are nice and quick, easy to reform and aim, you can pick different targets with each unit, and it's easier to get them into short range, where they really come into their own. In short range against anything with Toughness 2 or higher, and armour of 6+ or better, the average number of wounds doubles or better. Against, for example, anything with toughness 4 and a 5+ armour save [I'm specifically thinking of orks with shields and light armour]. The average number of wounds is 2.5 times higher than at long range. So ten in short range will beat 20 in long range outright. I agree that they are quite easy to kill, but most people I've faced try to aim for the close combat units with their artillery [usually the daunting-looking Tree Kin]. If they get charged, I tend to flee with them if possible, because they're basically dead if they get into close combat, all you really do by putting them in a unit of 20 is let them kill 20 at a time in stead of 10.

Strategos
15-09-2011, 18:29
So the middle ground would be one more durable unit of 20 and then 2 units of 10?

brightblade
15-09-2011, 19:25
Divination orb is a wizard item. Hoda can go on any character with a bow.

I tend to give a lvl4 spellweaver that and the rhymers harp, put him in a unit of eternal guard along with my general. Who is a highborn loaded up with what I fancy. I tend then to give my bsb the hail of doom (you have to buy him asyendi's bane too as he loses his bow when you buy the standard and it is the cheapest magical bow) and bung him in the eternal guard unit. You end up with a unit that has a 5+armour save and a 5+ward that can dole it out when charged that is also stubborn. It tends to hold (bad dice notwithstanding) and you can then counter charge with treeman and treekin. Not lost with it so far.......so far...... The only problem is the points cost.......And the build is fairly defensive...

Support it all with a couple of twenty strong glade guard units and you have a chance.....

Strategos
15-09-2011, 21:02
Thanks brightblade. I'm not too worried about the points cost. I'm playing a campaign with the army over the next 2 months so im just looking for a nice looking army over anything else.

brightblade
15-09-2011, 22:11
I built my army in a fluffy way to include all units available without spamming or maxing out in one. It is a large army that I break down to different gamesizes and then occasionally the whole host marches to war!

Campaigns are so cool. Keep us informed of how it goes and anything you learn is always helpful! Oh, I tend to lore of life it. . no surprise really... ;)

cyberspite
15-09-2011, 22:51
I think it's worth mentioning that if you plan on using eternal guard you will have to commit a lot of points to them to get the most out of them. I would say at least 20 with character support and magic items like the rhymers harp that provide a buff to the whole unit. It's sort of all your eggs in one basket but otherwise you run the risk of them just getting rolled.

Use them as your main anchor unit and keep your treekin / treeman close by to support them and they should do ok.

Eagles are good, mainly because they are our only real cheap unit, so use them for annoying warmachines, missile units and generally just troubleshooting. Even if they get killed they have likely stopped something from shooting for a turn or 2, or held-up a nasty unit from getting to your lines.

There's no real wrong answer on the size of glade guard units as you will want to be concentrating your fire anyway, it just depends on the player. Although 20 will give you a better stand and shoot and could fight in combat if they really, really had to, at least 1 unit of 10 is useful for taking down small units of fast cav or finishing off depleted units that you don't want to waste 20 shots on.

Generally though, just make sure you have a plan and that all your units work together to support each other and you should do ok. Good luck!

Oh, and you may want to check out this site also:
http://asrai.org

Strategos
16-09-2011, 09:27
I wil do brightblade. Looking forward to it.