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ClockBlock
10-09-2011, 13:03
Revised again!

Heros
Luthor Huss - 180 pts

Battle Wizard - 120 pts
-Uses Lore of Shadow
-Power Stone
-Deploys Swordsmen OR Greatswords
-Level 2

Battle Wizard - 75 pts
-Uses Lore of Life
-Wizard's Staff
-Deploys with any unit

Core

x26 Spearmen - 150 pts
-Full Command

x20 Swordsmen - 145 pts
-Full Command
-Two detachments of x8 crossbowmen

x20 Halberdiers - 120 pts
-Full Command
-Two detachments of x8 handgunners

x16 Handgunners - 128 pts (Split into two units of x8 Handgunners each.)
-Detachment for Halberdier unit

x16 Crossbowmen - 128 pts (Split into two units of x8 Xbows each.)
-Detachment for swordsmen unit

x8 Knightly Order - 224 pts
-Full Command
-Steel Standard

Special

x16 Greatswords - 190 pts
-Full Command

Total: 1500

Tactics: (These are open to debate if anyone doesn't agree with them.)
Infantry- Due to the large amount of infantry, these will mostly be for attacking on all flanks. The greatswords, which I'm counting as infantry, will be used to supply a solid front to the infantries' attacks

Knights- These will rely mostly on a charge (the Banner of Steel adding to their charge) to get into the thick of combat. I'm mostly going to see if I can flank charge with them, so their charge will be even more effective.

Wizards- The LoS-using mage will join with another unit, most likely the greatswords or the swordsmen, and cast curses on the enemy so they can have a better chance of winning. The Life Wizard will join another unit, using his spells to buff the unit he is in.

Luthor Huss- He MIGHT join the Knights (if he can) but if not, he can hold his own in combat, and he will probably close in on the enemy with the solid core of infantry while casting blessings to help the infantry.

Ranged Units- These units are detachments for the other two and will help guard the flanks of more powerful units.

drear
10-09-2011, 13:19
20 seems awfully small for such low t units. id be tempted to merge them into 2 units of 30 halberdeers and swordsmen.

the lore of fire is nice, but its only a small amount of wounds, and anything worth protecting will have a MR or a ward.
and death relies heavily upon ld tests and such to snipe, aswell as very short range.
those wizards are going to get sniped out by anything with ranged attacks.
even spells , 1 missile spell and the horse wizards toast.

it might be worth taking shadow on 1 wizard in the swordsmen , and take the sig spell for miasma. essentially buffing your swords

D'Haran
10-09-2011, 14:22
i agree that 20 man units feel a little small, granted you'll probably outnumber the enemy and out deploy him, but he'll generally have at least 1 tough unit against which it will be difficult to hold with a 20 man unit. Your knights might do the trick but then they probably won't be flank charging but just countering a threat.

ClockBlock
10-09-2011, 20:23
Ok then. I'll revise the list and see if I can fix some of the problems you pointed out here.

D'Haran
10-09-2011, 20:56
I'd probably drop a bunch of the shooting units, maybe all of them. Honestly empire shooting is meant to clean up units that have been blasted apart by warmachines, without those cannons/motars to break down units there's little use in having normal shooting units. Also life is a decent lore but only when you're getting the 2-3 best spells, with a low lvl wizard I'd probably take light over life.

TheMadMarquis
11-09-2011, 09:37
Needs bigger units, and preferably a cannon. The optimal size of a Halberdier unit is the game's total points value/50 - 48 at 2.4K points, and in this match, 30 :)

Noght
11-09-2011, 12:16
Here's some thoughts:

1. Combine your 60 State troops into 2 x 30.
2. Keep your Xbows/Guns in units of 16, not detachments
3. 2 Level 1 Wizards is fine, make one Bright Wizard for Fireball + shadow.
4. Drop Huss and make him an Arch Lector with the Great Swords.
5. Drop Free Company and get a Mortar or Cannon (drop Steel Standard).
6. BSB is kind of vital for Empire...just saying.

Noght

Wesser
11-09-2011, 12:29
I prefer keeping my Handgunners/xbows as detachments of 5-6.

No reason to put all eggs in one basket when you dont need to, and it means you wont be wasting fire.

Drop a wizard and get a Cannon. In case a big gribbly shows up, youll be happier for it

Korraz
11-09-2011, 12:43
With all due respect.. you are going to get torn apart.

Let's see...
Huss? Well, I like Huss. But I sure as hell wouldn't play him in a tournament.

Wizards? Well, Life and Shadow are good. Only getting one spell is not. Also, no duplicate magic items.

Infantry? Those units won't achieve anything. Play either 30, or a Horde. A halberdier horde.

I'd either go full Handgunners for maximum HL-Long Rifles, or all crossbows. Crossbows have the edge over Handgunners, unless you maximize the LRs. You are also missing out the best about the detachments. COUNTER CHARGES. That's why you need big units. A unit of Swordsman crashing into your flank, denying your Ranks and your Charge Bonus is a nasty thing.

I'd play Knights either big, or not at all.

And what's with those Free Company?!

16 Greatsworts? Meh. If you want to. In my opinion, this is another case of go big or go home, since they'll be a prime target.

You lack Moral, you lack a BSB, you lack Magic, you lack Magic Defense, you lack something to kill the big stuff. In fact, you don't have anything. On 1500 I'd take a LV4 Life Wizard without a second thought. As for heroes, a BSB is mandatory, a LV2 Shadow Wizard is nice too. One or two big Infantry blocks are a given, so is at least one cannon, if not two.

Wesser
11-09-2011, 17:00
You are also missing out the best about the detachments. COUNTER CHARGES. That's why you need big units. A unit of Swordsman crashing into your flank, denying your Ranks and your Charge Bonus is a nasty thing.


You lack Moral, you lack a BSB, you lack Magic, you lack Magic Defense, you lack something to kill the big stuff. In fact, you don't have anything. On 1500 I'd take a LV4 Life Wizard without a second thought. .

Detachments are there to provide throwaway units and small shooty units. Combat detachments are crap since:

1. They dont count towards minimum core choices
2. They can't have banners, meaning you'll prolly in trouble in a Blood and Glory
3. They can't be joined by characters
4. They have to be 15 strong to have a serious chance of breaking anyone's rank and by now.....an ordinary unit is way better.


Im sceptical on the whole Lvl 4 is mandatory thing. And their value certainly decrease as the battle gets smaller. This is due to fewer worthwhile targets for either hexes or curses or big hitters. Admittedly the above list is weak but what would you target of significance apart from the knights?

Have a warrior priest lead a bigger unit of greatswords, bigger units, no wizards and bring a cannon and some small 5-man crossbowmen units.

I might run the knights for the oomph, but I might also get a hellblaster or a units of outriders and rely on the greatswords to provide bit in cc...

The above list cant rly fight or shoot which is quite remarkable rly

Korraz
11-09-2011, 19:55
I'm using 2 25 Swordsmen Detachments to great effect and I have more than enough banners. They don't need to be joined, and not counting towards minimum core is a nonissue. Throwaway units aren't all that important in 8th anymore.

The mage? A LV4 Mage on 1,5k is a goddamn chaingun brought to a knifefight. He's a lifemage, he doesn't care what the opponent brings, he just makes buffs your troops and throws the odd dwellers on an annoying unit.

I see no point in 5 man shooting detachments. Their impact is nonexistant.

Playing no mage seems incredibly silly to me if you play Empire. Mages are so cheap, and you can play them along several priests and have no problem with power dice.

A Hellblaster? Are you kidding? That thing is absolutely TERRIBLE. It's probably the second-worst pointsink in the army, only beaten by the bomb-pidgeons. They'll blow up 57% of the times, and even if it does not, you'll get an average 18 shots, which are 9 hits. On short range, mind you. You know what? Scratch that. Give me 4 pidgeons over one blaster any time of the day.

ClockBlock
12-09-2011, 00:53
I've fixed up the list slightly (I've removed the free company- waste of 70 points for only 10 units with two hand weapons. I'll see what I'll do with the free points. I've also removed one Wizard Staff, due to someone above pointing out that duplicate magic items are not allowed. (Too lazy to look up...)

Wesser
14-09-2011, 10:36
I'm using 2 25 Swordsmen Detachments to great effect and I have more than enough banners. They don't need to be joined, and not counting towards minimum core is a nonissue. Throwaway units aren't all that important in 8th anymore.

The mage? A LV4 Mage on 1,5k is a goddamn chaingun brought to a knifefight. He's a lifemage, he doesn't care what the opponent brings, he just makes buffs your troops and throws the odd dwellers on an annoying unit.

I see no point in 5 man shooting detachments. Their impact is nonexistant.

Playing no mage seems incredibly silly to me if you play Empire. Mages are so cheap, and you can play them along several priests and have no problem with power dice.

A Hellblaster? Are you kidding? That thing is absolutely TERRIBLE. It's probably the second-worst pointsink in the army, only beaten by the bomb-pidgeons. They'll blow up 57% of the times, and even if it does not, you'll get an average 18 shots, which are 9 hits. On short range, mind you. You know what? Scratch that. Give me 4 pidgeons over one blaster any time of the day.

Do you ever win with empire? Sure the Helblaster dont cause great casualties on gblins (that what you have mortars for) but are very great for trashing those elite units that your foot guys struggle with. They work especially well with heavens mages btw. Plus the the fear it causes helps dictate how you opponent moves.

That life mage cost almost a 5th of your army and is extremely unlikely to make his points back. Regrowth is only worth it for armies with elite infantry, dwellers is unlikely to kill many models in such a small game and the toughness thing on its own just dont seems worthe the points.

As for the small 5-mans... Compared to a big unit they are more expendable and can be promoted to speed bumbs at will. Also they dont cause panic and are perfect for targeting stuff like skaven weapon teams, mangler squigs and the like.

Combat detachments just remains crap