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fruitystu
10-09-2011, 17:26
So I've today invested in 10 Sabretusks.

Been looking over the book, and I think they are quite an attractive unit. Going to experiment a lot with them, as I reckon in small games, packs of 2 should prove potent Wizard hunters. Pelt in, drop the Wizard, bag some VPs, then get horribly mooshed. Sure it's risky, but given the point-for-point ratio, even with a Lvl1 Gobbo, it's a damned good trade!

Cheap, speedy, not that fragile (T4 for the win!) and with a decent number of attacks.

Main weakness of course is them dishing out the panic tests on my Ogres if I get it wrong. Happy to gamble away for the first few games, see if I can use their speed to get out of the panic radius, and get munching on Mages. Plus, if they happen to absorb shooting/magic on the way, so much the better, as it's not pelting my Ogres. Plus a pair of them is a mere 42 points, so whilst they do eat into my 50% Special allowance, a couple of units, maybe as many as three, should be too consuming in larger games (up to 2,000).

So, what do you reckon?

Tzeentch Lover
10-09-2011, 17:36
I think they work better in single model units. However, they are pretty hitty if you have a big unit. I'd invest in a Hunter as well in order to keep your kittys from booking it at the first chance they get. Remember that they are only Ld4, can't use the General's Ld, can't use the BSB, and can only have a Hunter join them. I'd take a Hunter with the Charmed Shield and Longstrider at least.

The Satyr
10-09-2011, 18:10
Hunter is expensive and worth shooting at, a unit of 2 tusks is small and worth next to nothing, if they die its no big loss and if your opponent shoots at them then he's not shooting at the things you really care about.

sturguard
10-09-2011, 18:50
Ogres leadership is not that good, 7/8, isnt having to take 3 panic tests caused by 3 single sabertooth packs a bit liability?

Thalenchar
10-09-2011, 19:19
Should work fine :) 2 sabretusks give you a nice number of attacks vs enemy wizard and they still have a fairly narrow frontage, which could help reaching your target.
Also, as long as you, like you said, keep them away from most of your ogres you should be fine with those panic tests. And re: Ogres only having ld 7-8, well, that's where a BSB will prove his worth!

fruitystu
11-09-2011, 02:04
Ogres leadership is not that good, 7/8, isnt having to take 3 panic tests caused by 3 single sabertooth packs a bit liability?

Liability for a n00B perhaps... (sorry for the l33t speak!).

It is a risk, but one I am betting should pay of handsomely. Someone else mentioned the BSB....sure, my Sabretooths can't make use of my own...but my opponents with any luck will be strategically chomped kitty litter in very short order.

Think of them as living, breathing, feline Cruise Missiles. Designed to be a single shot impact, with little left of both target and weapon. Get the shot to land in the right place, and you can mess up your opponent. Hell, packs of two or three pack enough of a punch to deal with enemy Fast Cav/Skirmishers, which would otherwise be a massive pain the bum for Ogres!

sturguard
11-09-2011, 03:13
How hard is it to shoot one and kill the unit, then force everything with 6" takes a panic test. Granted, it might be easy enough with certain armies to get the cats far enough away for it not to matter but some people are talking about using them to block or redirect charges to your bulls, if that is the case, they very well may be within 6". Not to mention, in those circumstances if you have 10 bulls and say a slaughtermaster and a BSB, there goes 1/3 of your army. I have no desire to figure out exactly what percentage of the time you fail a ldr 9 reroll, but I am sure it happens alot more often than people think.

fruitystu
11-09-2011, 10:50
I wouldn't use them for blocking or redirection, for the very reason you've posted above.

It's all about munching up high value, soft targets. It is quite subjective how to use them, as with I4, anything I5 or higher could prove problematic, as you risk the kitties being mashed before they get to do any killing.

And if my opponent targets them with shooting and magic, I'm braced for it. OVerall, I would have to hang back with my main Ogre line in the first turn, to let the Sabretusks outrun the panic danger zone. From there, your opponent has a choice. Look to take out the Sabretusks (hence the multiple units of them) or avoid them. Failure to do this means I'm in a position to eat the preferred targets. They're even quite capable of countering enemy Skirmishers and Fast Cavalry.

Just running it through my head, and I reckon I would even risk hurling them into a bunker to drag out a wizard. Goes without saying that the small frontage of the unit is what this hinges on. Maximising I think you'd be facing 12 models fighting against 20mm, and the same number from 25mm (doesn't sound right I know, but I've just checked with a spare movement tray!). So even against I5 and higher, I have a fair chance of weathering the incoming HTH.

Only one thing for it! Up early next Saturday, get them kitties built, and then pick a fight to see how it goes!

Thalenchar
11-09-2011, 11:21
Looking forward to seeing how you get on with them!

I too think the panic tests will be far less of an issue. But time will tell!

narrativium
11-09-2011, 14:28
As recipient from a few beatings from cavalry against my Ogres - Bretonnians, Empire Knights led by Warrior Priests, Black Knights, etc. - I look at the closing charge distances between my Ogres and their riders with dread. For the Ogres, 12-13" is a nice charge range; for the cavalry, 15-16" is a good bet and they probably have evil-looking lances or something. So the idea of putting something expendable an inch in front of the cavalry, preferably at a redirecting angle, and then waiting with my Ogres 12" beyond the Sabretusk, has its attractions.

Lord_Byron
11-09-2011, 18:39
Single cats are also effective blockers if you happen to be playing shooting style ogres with lots of leadbelchers, scraplaunchers and ironblasters.

My worries about bringing packs of cats isn't them panicking the ogres, at least not initially. It's them losing 2 cats and panicking themselves. Then you have a guided panic missile hauling back towards your lines that will never rally.

I don't think the hunter is worth it, but there might be some value in taking him for the vanguard move. I guess... I'd still think maneaters would be more valuable for that style of a maneuver.

rocdocta
13-09-2011, 03:48
i use 3x1 cats but mainly as hunters, redirectors and throw downs for deployment. ld4 = running cats if they cop damage. plus its also the threat level. do they shoot at 1 cat and waste alot of firepower, or ogres? a large unit attracts alot more damage that they cant take.

by taking small units of 1 they can slip through tiny gaps and get the job done ie redirecting/ warmachine/small archer unit hunting.

Mid'ean
13-09-2011, 04:03
i use 3x1 cats but mainly as hunters, redirectors and throw downs for deployment. ld4 = running cats if they cop damage. plus its also the threat level. do they shoot at 1 cat and waste alot of firepower, or ogres? a large unit attracts alot more damage that they cant take.

by taking small units of 1 they can slip through tiny gaps and get the job done ie redirecting/ warmachine/small archer unit hunting.

Been using them this way and they have been steller!. For example I was playing a HE player and was hoping to get off a triple charge with my IG's, a thundertusk to the front of a 30 elf LSG unit. Also thru in a sabretusk into the flank for extra CR. He was the only one to make the charge. 3 LSG's strike and cause 1 wound. I strike back and cause 1 wound. I only lost combat by 2 points. Naturally I broke but if the rolls went a little more in my direction my one little kitty would have stopped a unit of 30 LSG in it's tracks. Might have even won with better rolls....Not bad for the points in my opinion.....:evilgrin:

fruitystu
15-09-2011, 17:38
Dispatch confirmed, should have my Kitties tomorrow or Saturday.

Will line up a couple of games on Sunday and see how the plan works out!

Confessor_Atol
15-09-2011, 19:26
I ran a hunter and 8 cats to great effect last game. They pulled down an unwounded sphinx in 1 round of HtH. The vanguard move really let them put pressure on a flank early. 3A, S4, I4, WS4 W2 and T4, Its too good to pass up.:D

Feefait
15-09-2011, 19:37
Just a question, are cats on cavalry bases, as I am assuming? I am looking for hound models for my beastman army and the cats sound like great subs.

Confessor_Atol
15-09-2011, 20:41
Yeah, they're cav bases. I want to do a beast master theme, with sabretusks, an old metal rhinox, a couple of old metal chaos hounds, and a spider-rider spider. Sort of a mix of woodland creatures.

sturguard
15-09-2011, 21:20
Anyone think they might work well with Maneaters? Give the maneaters, Scout and ITP and perhaps 2 small units of 2 sabertusks. The first unit runs up in front of the maneaters and the second stays 6" behind. The maneaters dont care if the kitty's run and if attacks are directed at the maneaters, the cats run in and get their attacks. I was even thinking of giving the maneaters a brace of pistols and the fire banner so they could potentially put a wound on any regen nasties so the ironblaster could finish it off.

Thalenchar
15-09-2011, 22:30
@ Sturguard.
If you use ITP the Cats become even better redirecters as the Maneaters will just stay put when the Sabretusks flee past.
I don't quite get how you suggest combining two units of Sabretusks with scouting Maneaters though.. Aren't they too far apart to work together properly from T1?

vstag
16-09-2011, 09:09
I have gotten two games in with cats and have been using two units of one and both games worked great. First game blocked a charge of knights so I could charge them the next turn. The second game one of them killed off a warmachine. Both games the other cat died from missle fire which is fine with me since my ogres got into combat with taking less wounds. Never had to take a panic, but with the bsb and ld 9 I figured I would be ok.

fruitystu
17-09-2011, 07:59
On the subject of panic tests....Just thinking, in order to take out the units of Kitties at my planned size of two per unit, it's likely to take more than desultory fire from Fast Cavalry. Instead, if you want to wipe them out, you're looking at chucking a full unit's worth of firepower.

As stated above, that's a good amount of firepower not thrown at the main Ogres blocks. Downside of course, is the risk of a panic test should they be shot down too close to your lines. Clearly, this is a clear and present risk, and not one to be taken particularly lightly. But keeping General and BSB more or less central should mitigate this somewhat.

What do you guys think?

Thalenchar
17-09-2011, 22:42
I think that as long as you keep the cats either 6" away from your Ogres or make sure those Ogres benefit from general+BSB, you'll be fine.
Also, it will take some shooting to take out two cats but it's really not that hard taking 4 wounds off T4, no save models. Not to mention that you'll have to take a panic test with Ld 4 with the remaining cat if one dies. But yeah, every shot they take away from your other units is bonus :)

Dæmon
18-09-2011, 05:25
I'm planning on fielding unit of 4 kitties.
But I'm having dilemma choosing who to give Dragonhide Banner to.
Them or the Ironguts?

decker_cky
18-09-2011, 05:57
I'm planning on fielding unit of 4 kitties.
But I'm having dilemma choosing who to give Dragonhide Banner to.
Them or the Ironguts?

Take at least 5 kitties so they're less likely to panic. Give the banner to the ironguts.

Isambard
18-09-2011, 05:58
I'm planning on fielding unit of 4 kitties.
But I'm having dilemma choosing who to give Dragonhide Banner to.
Them or the Ironguts?

The consensus seems to be 'kitties' are Sabretusk packs, not Mournfancy Cav. I would give the Dragonhide to the Mournfangs, the Standard of Discipline seems to be better for a block of Ironguts with a general and BSB.

gormaster
18-09-2011, 21:57
I`m running three lone cats. Most of the time they are so far ahead of my Ogres I don`t have to worry about they causing panic. They usually are ignored and have done some pretty cool stuff because of it. I charged to into a TK Necrotek that was in the corner of his unit (one in the flank, one in front) and killed him a turn before my Bulls charged in. No hatred for that unit! They have killed Mangler squigs for me and were in posistion to charge a hoard of Treekin that had fled from my Trollguted Bull hoard.

Thalenchar
19-09-2011, 17:56
Yeah, having a unit who can swiftly deal with mangler squigs is also very nice. I hate those things and the cats will save me from having to use my Leadbelchers to deal with them