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strewart
12-09-2011, 05:47
I used lore of light for the first time last night, and came up with a few awkward questions in terms of its effect, particularly the net spell. The spell is essentially every time the unit hexed tries to do something (move, charge, shoot, cast a spell) it must pass a strength test. If it fails, the action doesn't happen and the unit takes d6 s3 hits.

Firstly, movement. The hexed unit declares a charge, it fails its strength test thus the charge automatically doesn't happen. Is the unit then allowed to attempt to move in the remaining moves phase, or is the failed test covering all its movement?

Secondly, magic. The test happens for every spell I assume, but if it is failed what is the consequence? A few options:
-It counts as magic, so the first failed test means no more magic can be attempted from the wizard hexed.
-It counts as failing to cast a spell thus that wizard can no longer attempt to cast in that magic phase, and the dice to be used for that spell are lost.
-It counts as failing to cast a spell, the dice that were going to be used are lost, that particular spell cannot be attempted again.
-It does not count as failing to cast a spell since it wasn't even attempted, the dice are retained but that spell cannot be attempted to be cast (since the S test was failed)
-It doesn't even count as trying to cast the spell, so the wizard may attempt to cast it again and just takes the hits.

The last option seems stupid and not really likely at all. For the purpose of the game, we agreed that that particular spell could not be attempted again, but no dice were lost and the rest of the magic continued as normal. Any thoughts?

T10
12-09-2011, 07:49
Movement: In my opinion: No. You declare your charge and resolve the charge reaction normally. You only test to see if you actually get to move. If the test is failed, you've still declared a charge. This should also affect the unit's avility to shoot.

Magic: In my opinion the test is taken when you announce that you want to cast a spell with the wizard, but before selecting the spell and selecting power dice. A failed test simply means that wizard cannot cast any spells that magic phase. However, this does not affect his avility to dispel Remains in Play spells.

Munin
12-09-2011, 08:36
Magic: In my opinion the test is taken when you announce that you want to cast a spell with the wizard, but before selecting the spell and selecting power dice. A failed test simply means that wizard cannot cast any spells that magic phase. However, this does not affect his avility to dispel Remains in Play spells.

And a successful test means he can cast as many spells as he likes (and have PDs for) or that he can only cast one spell w/o taking a second test?

strewart
12-09-2011, 09:30
And a successful test means he can cast as many spells as he likes (and have PDs for) or that he can only cast one spell w/o taking a second test?

If you took the above interpretation, I'd say yes to that. However, it does say 'every time the unit [.......] casts spells'.

Which is why I would think a test is taken for each casting attempt, not just the first time. Then it comes down to whether it was a failed casting attempt or not.

T10
12-09-2011, 10:58
Either you test once to be able to cast any number of spells that magic phase, or you test each time you want to cast a spell. Of the former it follows that a failed test stops the wizard from casting any spells at all. Of the latter it follows that a failed test does not stop the wizard from making another attempt to cast the spell.

The former makes more sense in my opinion.

-T10

D'Haran
12-09-2011, 13:32
I use lore of light a lot, the first question is a no, the unit failed a charge end of story.
As to the second I've always seen it played that you must test for every spell. I had it ruled that way at 3 different tournaments (ard boyz). I've also always played it that your must declare what spell you want to cast and allot dice, if the S check is failed you loose the dice but since you didn't really 'fail' to cast you can try again.

Not mentioned above is that the wizard himself must take the D6 hits not his unit if he fails his S check.

Yrrdead
12-09-2011, 18:49
I use lore of light a lot, the first question is a no, the unit failed a charge end of story.
As to the second I've always seen it played that you must test for every spell. I had it ruled that way at 3 different tournaments (ard boyz).Anecdotal, and 'ard boyz rulings isn't very good anecdotal evidence at that.


I've also always played it that your must declare what spell you want to cast and allot dice, if the S check is failed you loose the dice but since you didn't really 'fail' to cast you can try again. ??? You just made this up , there isn't any rule or even hint that it is played this way.


Not mentioned above is that the wizard himself must take the D6 hits not his unit if he fails his S check. This is also wrong.

Loopstah
12-09-2011, 19:13
You have to test before casting each spell you want to cast.

So you would declare you wanted to cast a spell and then test before actually deciding which spell to cast or how many dice to use. If you pass you do the spell as normal, if you fail no more spells for that wizard that phase.

D'Haran
12-09-2011, 22:16
Yrrdead; I never made the claim that the rulings were official, I never quoted the rulebook or faq, nor did I say the spell should be played the way I described. I was offering a look at how I've experienced the spell being played and how I've been told it should be played (hopefully preventing others playing it that way).

I appreciate you pointing out how wrong I am, but I never thought anyone would think I was actually claiming that's how it should be played. Also there's sufficient answer already in the thread for that which is why I never bothered to answer the second question asked by Stewart.

T10
12-09-2011, 22:22
In all fairness, your post did come across as an authorative statement and not an opinion.

-T10

strewart
13-09-2011, 02:54
You have to test before casting each spell you want to cast.

So you would declare you wanted to cast a spell and then test before actually deciding which spell to cast or how many dice to use. If you pass you do the spell as normal, if you fail no more spells for that wizard that phase.

That wording probably makes sense to me actually. You want to cast a spell, fail the test, cannot cast any more. That makes it a very powerful spell to drop on wizards; for most it gives a 50/50 chance that they will not cast that phase.

When it came up, since he failed the first test, we both agreed to let him test for each spell he tried, it didn't effect the outcome of the game.

T10
13-09-2011, 07:20
But a failed test only means you can't complete that action.

If each spell cast is a separate action, then you need to take the test for each spell, and failure has no effect on the Wizard's next spell casting action.

Otherwise the act of casting any spells at all is a spell casting action and the Wizard's unit only only takes one test for that Magic phase.

You can't have both; that you test for each spell and stop when the unit fails its test. The Net of Amyntok simply does not describe such a procedure.

-T10

strewart
13-09-2011, 09:06
No I mean a failed test meant that spell didn't work, then the next could be tried, not that each spell tested and if one failed it was end of the magic phase. So it meant if he failed a test, it was just that spell and didn't stop the rest of the magic phase.

One test for all of magic phase seems ok, but its very powerful if the test is failed. Oh well, the wizard can jump out of the unit to get away from the effect in the movement phase anyway.

Spiney Norman
14-09-2011, 14:47
Anecdotal, and 'ard boyz rulings isn't very good anecdotal evidence at that.


Anecdotal evidence is really all we have until it gets officially FAQ'd because the wording is not clear.

IMHO there are two sensible ways to play the magic phase question, either one test to rule them all, or each spell has its own test, and the results of that test only affect the spell tested for.

1. A single test for a wizard to cast spells, if the wizard passes he may cast as many spells as he has dice for without further testing, if he fails he may cast no spells that phase.

2. A test per spell, essentially a wizard declares he is attempting to cast a given spell, then immediately tests, if he passes he may select dice and cast the spell, if he fails he may not cast that particular spell and may not attempt the same spell again (since no spell can be attempted twice per turn) but no dice are lost because they have not been allocated yet. The wizard may then attempt any other spell (since the criteria for loss of concentration has not been met), but must test separately before each one.

As another example of anecdotal evidence our group uses the 2nd option.