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Scribe of Khorne
15-09-2011, 16:58
My first crack at 2500 points. I have next to no experience with Fantasy, having played 40K for quite some time (CSM/Daemons/DE) but this is what I have come up with from an eye towards models I like, while still remaining effective.

Should I make the caster lord a hero for more upgrades on the combat lord?
Are my core units too small?
Should I drop the Terrorgheist for a few upgrades to the Blood Knights?
All those points on a Necromancer?

These are the things I dont know.

Please critique and help me correct any truly noobish mistakes!

Lords
* 345
Vamp Lord
Red Fury
Infinite Hatred
Dread Knight
Blood Drinker

* 270
Vamp Lord
Forbidden Lore (Light)
Dark Acolyte

Hero
* 130
Necro
Extra Spell x 2
Dispel Scroll
Nightshroud

Core

* 208 (Necromancer in here)
Ghouls (25)
Ghast

* 248
Ghouls (30)
Ghast

* 172 (Caster Lord here)
Skeletons (19)
Full Command

* 40
Dire Wolf (5)

Special
* 465
Grave Guard (30)
Full Command
Banner of the Barrows
Great Weapons

Rare
* 175
Varghulf

* 225
Terrorgheist

* 220 (Combat Lord here)
Blood Knights (4)

NitrosOkay
15-09-2011, 17:38
I would give the nightshroud to a Vampire rather than the Necromancer. Your Necromancer is probably dead no matter what if he's in CC. I could see taking Invocation and Vanhel's, but not raise dead on him.

Rare choices are usually a matter of personal preference. None of them are bad.

Your Blood Knights are probably going to die to shooting, Flag of Blood Keep could help. To free up points your Combat Lord is probably a bit of a points sink. A hero with Dread Knight, Infinite Hatred and Blood Drinker comes in at 190 points.

Would definitely go to magic level 4 on your Caster Lord and give him a ward save of some kind. Could also add in the Helm of Commandment (standard tournament Vampire list item). If you're willing to drop the dire wolves I would also add a Wight King battle standard bearer for re-rolling leadership tests and some protection against crumbling.

Your ghouls are a *little* small but it shouldn't cripple you.

Scribe of Khorne
15-09-2011, 18:51
Thanks for taking a look, heres the updates, still have 92 points to play with.

Changes:
1 Lord, bumped to lvl4 with the helm.

Dropped the combat vamp to a hero, as he was really just to be a buff to the knights anyway.

Dropped some points from the Necromancer and added a Wight King BSB, need to pick a banner though.

Dropped the Terrorgheist, and filled out the Knights with the Flag, and a Musician.

Bumped up the Ghouls to 2 units of 30.

Lords
* 350
Vamp Lord
Forbidden Lore (Light)
Dark Acolyte
Extra Level 50
Helm of Commandment 30

Hero
* 190
Vampire
Infinite Hatred
Dread Knight
Blood Drinker

* 95
Necromancer
Extra Spell
Dispel Scroll

* 100+
Wight King
BSB

Core
* 248
Ghouls (30)
Ghast

* 248
Ghouls (30)
Ghast

* 172 (Caster Lord and Necro here)
Skeletons (19)
Full Command

* 40
Dire Wolf (5)

Special
* 465 (Wight King here)
Grave Guard (30)
Full Command
Banner of the Barrows
Great Weapons

Rare
* 175
Varghulf

* 325 (Combat Hero here)
Blood Knights (4)
Musician
Standard
Flag of Blood Keep

NitrosOkay
15-09-2011, 19:18
If you can find 33 more points you can throw the Drakenhof Banner on your Wight King and put him with the Grave Guard and they'll all have 4+ regen saves.

It's a standard Vampire Counts tournament thing to do, but people in friendly games might call you out on it.

Scribe of Khorne
15-09-2011, 19:35
Could drop the 1 unit of Ghouls back to 25, and do that for sure. Would leave me with 7 points. If I then drop the Ghast, I would have another 15 total to go somewhere to hit 2500 even.

NitrosOkay
15-09-2011, 19:38
Probably a ward save for your lord for when you fail your look-out-sir.

Scribe of Khorne
15-09-2011, 19:40
Would it be worth it to drop a GG, and the Seneschal, for another 24 points, bringing me to 39? I could then get the Crown of the Damned for the 4+ ward with Stupidity.

Probably just go with the Opal actually.

Thanks for the help. :]

Scribe of Khorne
15-09-2011, 20:21
This then is what I am looking at.

* 365
Vamp Lord
Forbidden Lore (Light)
Dark Acolyte
Extra Level
Helm of Commandment
Opal Amulet

Hero
* 190
Vampire
Infinite Hatred
Dread Knight
Blood Drinker

* 95
Necromancer
Extra Spell (Vanhels and Invocation)
Dispel Scroll

* 225
Wight King
BSB
The Drakenhof Banner (4+ Regen Unit Wide)

Core
* 240 (Necro)
Ghouls (29)
Ghast

* 248
Ghouls (30)
Ghast

* 172 (Caster Lord)
Skeletons (19)
Full Command

Special
* 465 (Wight King)
Grave Guard (30)
Full Command
Banner of the Barrows
Great Weapons

Rare
* 175
Varghulf

* 325 (Combat Hero here)
Blood Knights (4)
Musician
Standard
Flag of Blood Keep

Yrrdead
16-09-2011, 07:54
I would drop the ghasts and combine those two units of ghouls into a much larger unit.
The grave guard are a bit too small. 30 puts them in danger of being smooshed.By smooshed I mean they lose attacks immediately(1st casualty) and against another elite choppy unit with a flaming banner then kiss them goodbye. The smallest I run my GG is 36 and these days I'm up to 45. Oh and Flag Keep....Often I'd rather just have 2 more Blood Knights vs that banner. Though it depends on the environment you are playing in. If it is tourney type list/All comers I would drop it and go with Strigos+1 more Blood Knight. Other than that it looks good.

One thing I've gotten back to using only lately is Corpse Carts and Dire Wolves. Though it does pain me physically since they are core that don't "count".

Dire Wolves - Well I have 10 painted....Seriously though simply to have a placement and throw away unit. Also great unit to deal with Mangler's which I'm having to deal with more often.
Corpse Cart - Using two with Balefire, Costs the same as a Black Coach but only affects the enemy , super reliable, can sometimes sneak in Miasma when people are waiting to stop other stuff.

Scribe of Khorne
16-09-2011, 15:12
I was thinking about this last night, if I drop the opal, extra spell, and the Wight King.

Ghouls 1 = 34 Strong (Necro fills the rank)
Ghouls 2 = 35 Strong
Grave Guard = 40 Strong (Enough to use Horde formation I would think)
5 Dire Wolves added (complete throw away, but its 40 points)
Potion of Speed for the Knight Vampire
4+ Ward on the General Caster Vampire

Yrrdead
17-09-2011, 09:28
Potion of Speed is kind of a waste. He is already going to attack @ I6. Which means he can bring back BK's before their initiative step.

I'd rather put those points towards charmed shield/Ironcurse Icon . Both better items that cost the same amount. Charmed shield on your lord would be my pick.

Lord Skrolk
18-09-2011, 19:53
I was thinking about this last night, if I drop the opal, extra spell, and the Wight King.

Ghouls 1 = 34 Strong (Necro fills the rank)
Ghouls 2 = 35 Strong
Grave Guard = 40 Strong (Enough to use Horde formation I would think)
5 Dire Wolves added (complete throw away, but its 40 points)
Potion of Speed for the Knight Vampire
4+ Ward on the General Caster Vampire

I would strongly disagree. As a vc player myself, I can say safely say that the preponderance towards 3 big units is a) not a winning combination, and b) boring.

40 GG with a drakenhoff banner is pushing 600pts, which is 25% of your army. I would strongly recommend taking no more than 21 to 28 (including a Wight king) with barrows or strigois. Any more is overkill.

I suggest you spread those points and and a few more on some other core troops.

Break the mould.

Yrrdead
19-09-2011, 00:53
I would strongly disagree. As a vc player myself, I can say safely say that the preponderance towards 3 big units is a) not a winning combination, and b) boring.

40 GG with a drakenhoff banner is pushing 600pts, which is 25% of your army. I would strongly recommend taking no more than 21 to 28 (including a Wight king) with barrows or strigois. Any more is overkill.

I suggest you spread those points and and a few more on some other core troops.

Break the mould.

I disagree with your first statement that a few big units is not a winning combination. Though I will give you the point about being boring. You could be right though, I only run two big units to win instead of 3.

I'm not sure what your meta game is like but in my experience a Grave Guard unit of 21-28 even with Drakenhoff isn't going to survive a single round of combat.

You also recommend spending more on core troops? So you would rather have more skeletons/ghouls/zombies than grave guard. Seriously? That just sounds like bad tactical advice to me.

Scribe of Khorne
19-09-2011, 21:07
I am coming at this from a completely inexperienced perspective, while I dont want a boring army, or game for my opponent, we are pushing shambling hordes of the undead around. :]

I was just thinking, your not going to be able to buff a lot of units regardless of if you have a level 4 or not, but we kind of need to buff the Core units or they arent that great/die easy and so on so why not keep the count down?

So then I thought, is a combat lord even an option, at 2k I would have a large block of ghouls with potential for a horde formation, a moderate GG unit, and a tough unit of Blood Knights that would potentially do a lot of damage.

Lords
Vampire Lord
Red Fury
Dread Knight
Blood Drinker
Dragonhelm
Talisman of Preservation
Extra Level

Hero
Vampire
Forbidden Lore (Light)
Black Periapt

Core
Ghouls - 40
Ghast

Skeletons - 19
Full Command

Special
Grave Guard - 30
Full Command
Banner of the Barrows
Great Weapons

Rare
Varghulf

Blood Knights
Standard, Musician
Royal Standard of Strigos

Yrrdead
20-09-2011, 05:58
The boring aspect comes after playing the same list over and over because you play in a tough environment and don't feel like getting stomped. Then you feel kind of trapped into taking the competitive template which is usually around 2k, giving you 500 pts to play around with.

I'm sure you've seen similar cookie cutter type lists in 40k that get boring.

Current list;

I would swap Light to Vampires lore on your hero vamp. And give him Helm of commandment.

Scribe of Khorne
20-09-2011, 15:54
The boring aspect comes after playing the same list over and over because you play in a tough environment and don't feel like getting stomped. Then you feel kind of trapped into taking the competitive template which is usually around 2k, giving you 500 pts to play around with.

I'm sure you've seen similar cookie cutter type lists in 40k that get boring.


Yeah thats just part of the game, the good thing from what I have read of VC, is that you have at least some flexibility in the Rare slots though.

Yrrdead
20-09-2011, 21:30
Yeah so much flexibility I'm thinking of dropping all rares out of my list. :shifty: