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witchunter180
16-09-2011, 17:00
I admit I still don't know a lot about dwarfs, but theres some rule that allows them to get a power dice for dispelling during my magic phase. After looking into a VC army, I started wondering about something. With the cap on power dice at 12, if I generate more than 12 but he steals 1 or however many it is, does that leave me with less than 12 or less than my total, which is then lowered to 12?

Von Wibble
16-09-2011, 17:14
This feels like the argument that you can claim banner of sorcery dice after casting a spell and therefore effectively generate more than 12 dice. I don't buy it I'm afraid.

I think you would work out how many are generated. This would cap at 12.

Then the rune would steal the dice.

This is however an interpretation only, not a flat statement of fact.

Novrain
16-09-2011, 17:15
I agree with Von Wibble. I thought this issue has been FAQ'ed re: Banner of Sorcery

Loopstah
16-09-2011, 17:32
The Rune would steal the dice after you work out how many power dice you have, this would include any generated by other means i.e Black Periapt.

So if you roll 12 and get an extra dice you end up with 11 after the Dwarf player takes one.

witchunter180
16-09-2011, 17:54
Okay, you guys are right. Its in the 1.5 core revision, but it seems the dwarf FAQ got rolled back to a v1.3 so its not listed there. We haven't had an arguement over it, just weren't sure, so we alternated turns. Thx guys

calnen
16-09-2011, 20:04
This is the way we play it too - it basically caps the power dice at 11.

Yes, it's a pretty nasty rune - but it's a master rune, and 50 points so roughly on a par with the banner of sorcery.

AMWOOD co
17-09-2011, 05:48
Okay, you guys are right. Its in the 1.5 core revision, but it seems the dwarf FAQ got rolled back to a v1.3 so its not listed there.

Just to let you know, they increase the update number by 0.1 every time they change something in that specific Errata/FAQ rather than every time an Errata/FAQ is updated. That means the the rulebook one was made (1.0) and then updated 5 times since then (1.1 through 1.5). The dwarf one has only seen 4 incarnations (1.0 through 1.3).

As a result, there's no rolling back, its just that the dwarf one has avoided updates a few more times than the rulebook itself.

Trustey
17-09-2011, 06:36
This is how I'm understanding the cap. At no point did you ever have more than 12 dice. Regardless of any modifications it's impossible to ever have more than 12, so 12 minus X equals...

decker_cky
18-09-2011, 06:00
I'm curious about something on that FAQ. Couldn't I just state that the dwarf item is used before I use another item to add a power die, since they're simultaneous actions?

Yrrdead
18-09-2011, 06:22
I'm not sure how I missed this thread but no biggie.


The Rune would steal the dice after you work out how many power dice you have, this would include any generated by other means i.e Black Periapt.

So if you roll 12 and get an extra dice you end up with 11 after the Dwarf player takes one.

I don't agree with either of your statements. The MRoB doesn't state that at all.


I'm curious about something on that FAQ. Couldn't I just state that the dwarf item is used before I use another item to add a power die, since they're simultaneous actions?

Exactly. Our only guidance on when these things occur is after the roll for Winds has been made.

As decker_cky points out in the case of simultaneous actions the players whose turn it is decides. So you would first remove a dice from the power pool from the MRoB , then add dice up to a maximum of 12 from whatever ability you happen to have.

Trustey
19-09-2011, 22:21
I'm not sure how I missed this thread but no biggie.



I don't agree with either of your statements. The MRoB doesn't state that at all.



Exactly. Our only guidance on when these things occur is after the roll for Winds has been made.

As decker_cky points out in the case of simultaneous actions the players whose turn it is decides. So you would first remove a dice from the power pool from the MRoB , then add dice up to a maximum of 12 from whatever ability you happen to have.

But wouldnt that mean you had more than 12 dice that turn? Maybe never at the same time. But you did, and you can't during any point in the phase.

Mr_Rose
19-09-2011, 22:30
But wouldnt that mean you had more than 12 dice that turn? Maybe never at the same time. But you did, and you can't during any point in the phase.
The limit is on dice at any one time, not cumulative total over the phase; this is what the rulebook describes and what the FAQ confirms.

Q: Can I use more than 12 power or dispel dice in a phase
even though the pool is limited to 12? (p30)
A: Yes. While the pool can never contain more than 12 power
or dispel dice at any one time, some abilities can generate more
dice part way through a Magic phase.

Trustey
19-09-2011, 22:37
Oh yeah that's pretty clear. Thanks.

Zoolander
20-09-2011, 09:56
I think a more interesting question is, does the black coach steal dice before or after the dwarf player?

Mr_Rose
20-09-2011, 11:17
I think a more interesting question is, does the black coach steal dice before or after the dwarf player?
The player whose turn it is gets to decide. "Sequencing" box-out BRB p.10.

The bearded one
20-09-2011, 11:24
"During the enemy's magic phase, this rune allows the owning player to remove one dice from the opponent's pile of powerdice and add it to his own dispel dice pile"

The rune does not mention any specific time when it is used, just 'during the enemy's magic phase', so potentially that might mean whenever I want :p The description mentions 'pile of powerdice', leading me to believe that you first generate your entire pile, before the dwarf swoops in and steals one of the fully generated pile, instead of you generating a portion of the pile from winds of magic, then the dwarf stealing, and then the opponent generating a further portion of his pile..

Harwammer
20-09-2011, 11:34
Evocation of Death happens at the start of the magic phase (one would assume this means immediately after the power dice pool has been generated). Given TBO's wording of the rune it seems the dwarf player can choose whether to swap the dice at the start of the phase (player whose turn it is decides if coach or rune goes first) or later in the phase.

Mr_Rose
20-09-2011, 12:23
"During the enemy's magic phase, this rune allows the owning player to remove one dice from the opponent's pile of powerdice and add it to his own dispel dice pile"

The rune does not mention any specific time when it is used, just 'during the enemy's magic phase', so potentially that might mean whenever I want :p The description mentions 'pile of powerdice', leading me to believe that you first generate your entire pile, before the dwarf swoops in and steals one of the fully generated pile, instead of you generating a portion of the pile from winds of magic, then the dwarf stealing, and then the opponent generating a further portion of his pile..
I'm pretty sure this FAQ entry covers the Rune since it is technically generating a dispel die:

Q: If I have a special rule that generates power or dispel dice
that doesn’t state when they are added or specifies they are added at
the start of the Magic phase, when are these dice added to the
pool?(p30)
A: They are added after rolling for the Winds of Magic but
before any casting attempts have been made.

N1AK
21-09-2011, 12:16
Nice spot TBO. Would be interesting to try playing it that way one day. Let your opponent cast 1-2 spells then steal a dice they've kept back for a later cast where they needed it.