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the worlds nerd
17-09-2011, 20:01
Grey Seer - Forbidden Rod - 4+ ward - 320 Lore of Ruin
Grey Seer - Power Scroll - 5+ ward - 305 Lore of Plague

Warlock - lvl 1 - condenser - 85
Plague Priest - lvl 2 - dispel scroll - flail - 164
Chieftan - BSB - 5+ward - halbard - 102

24x Clanrats - Shields - Standard - Musician - Warpfire thrower - 190
24x Clanrats - Shields - Standard - Musician - Warpfire thrower - 190
25x Clanrats - Shields - Standard - Musician - Mortar - 189.5
25x Clanrats - Shields - Standard - Musician - Mortar - 189.5
25x Stormvermin - Full command - Storrmbanner - Warpfire thrower - 325
40x Slaves - shields - 100
40x Slaves - shields - 100

5x Gutter runners - 60

canon - 90
canon - 90

total: 2500

basically shoot them? chose the extra warpfire thrower over mortar because they're good for clearing units from watchtower. took the forbidden rod for that one time per game i roll really low (2,3,4 etc) i think that combined with the update to the power scroll allows me to get of an easy 13th due to the lack of their dispel dice - has ended up being a great item every time i've used it really just because when i know both lores of magic there's always a spell i have that is damaging. I also chose to have two grey seers because i think knowing both lore is actually really useful, yes i don't get the chance to get every spell obviously and i do get spells that i will never really cast, but knowing every game i will get cracks call and every game i will get wither and plague just eases my mind and allows me to react with a lot more ease to opponents armies. I also like being able to have 2 13ths just because it's such an amazing spell, and to be honest, i don't mind throwing 6 dice in and miscasting because i know most of time it will always cause more damage. cheap unit of gutter runners are there just for dealing with artillery really, not much else to it. Storm banners always a good thing, definitely when my army doesn't suffer from it. 2 big units of slave to hold stuff up. and yeah, the rest if just shooting really.

would love to discuss how to improve this list and what you guys think could do with being changed.

tarrym
18-09-2011, 09:22
Never done the maths myself, but is the extra 20pts to give the Slaves shields really worth it over 10 extra Slaves (per unit)?

Other than that it looks pretty good. Never tried this much shooting in a Skaven list before - I tend to roll misfires a lot more than 1/6 when using Skaven weapons :)

rahtep888
18-09-2011, 10:55
I'm not a stunning skaven player, but it seems to me that, although this list has got a LOT in the way of numbers, it hasn't really got any physical punch. In 8th ed even infantry get into combat at turn 3 at the latest, and, apart from the stormvermin, absolutely nothing will stand in the way of any dedicated combat units. May I suggest dropping shields on the slaves and taking more of them (2x 50 man units) so they can be better used as tarpits? In addition, the Gutter Runners will, more often than not, turn out to be a waste of points- perhaps swap them out for a few extra clanrats. Also, in which units would the Grey Seers go (if any)? It seems to me that they would be very vulnerable in this list, as even an unequipped hero could take one out- and that's to say nothing of lords or tooled-up characters. I suppose you could avoid this by canny deployment, but, as they are very expensive characters (especially in this list where they represent the two MOST expensive units), it's important that you defend them well. Another thing this list looks vulnerable to is monsters. The warp-lightning cannons would have to make any big, nasty beasts a priority, which leaves any other combat units with free reign for a turn or two.
Now I have had my moan :P, i'll move on to the positives. Chucking the BSB in with the stormvermin is an excellent move, as is the expendable lightning-lock (as I shall now call him!). The slaves, when boosted to 50-strong, will anchor your battleline nicely and trap those horrible combat monsters for a few turns- just keep the BSB in range, as otherwise they might break at an inopportune moment. I like the forbidden rod on the first Grey Seer- that will steer an otherwise failing magic phase in the right direction. Skaven magic is truly horrible to face- I'd suggest always swapping one of a Seer's spells for the DTS (that'll teach those chaos chosen/ironbreakers/bloodletters/greatswords/any other powerful infantry unit!). I myself always take the Screaming Bell, but in this list I don't think it is really nescessary. And, just to clarify, you can't have both Seers knowing the DTS- the rules state no two wizards in an army can know the same spells :/ otherwise people like me :) would abuse the power that gave me to HELL! Finally, welcome to the forums, my friend, and I hope to see more posts from you in the future. If I had to rate this list, I'd say 7.5/10 for it as it is, and with a few modifications, 8/10. Well done!

the worlds nerd
18-09-2011, 16:00
I'm not a stunning skaven player, but it seems to me that, although this list has got a LOT in the way of numbers, it hasn't really got any physical punch. In 8th ed even infantry get into combat at turn 3 at the latest, and, apart from the stormvermin, absolutely nothing will stand in the way of any dedicated combat units. May I suggest dropping shields on the slaves and taking more of them (2x 50 man units) so they can be better used as tarpits? In addition, the Gutter Runners will, more often than not, turn out to be a waste of points- perhaps swap them out for a few extra clanrats. Also, in which units would the Grey Seers go (if any)? It seems to me that they would be very vulnerable in this list, as even an unequipped hero could take one out- and that's to say nothing of lords or tooled-up characters. I suppose you could avoid this by canny deployment, but, as they are very expensive characters (especially in this list where they represent the two MOST expensive units), it's important that you defend them well. Another thing this list looks vulnerable to is monsters. The warp-lightning cannons would have to make any big, nasty beasts a priority, which leaves any other combat units with free reign for a turn or two.
Now I have had my moan :P, i'll move on to the positives. Chucking the BSB in with the stormvermin is an excellent move, as is the expendable lightning-lock (as I shall now call him!). The slaves, when boosted to 50-strong, will anchor your battleline nicely and trap those horrible combat monsters for a few turns- just keep the BSB in range, as otherwise they might break at an inopportune moment. I like the forbidden rod on the first Grey Seer- that will steer an otherwise failing magic phase in the right direction. Skaven magic is truly horrible to face- I'd suggest always swapping one of a Seer's spells for the DTS (that'll teach those chaos chosen/ironbreakers/bloodletters/greatswords/any other powerful infantry unit!). I myself always take the Screaming Bell, but in this list I don't think it is really nescessary. And, just to clarify, you can't have both Seers knowing the DTS- the rules state no two wizards in an army can know the same spels :/ otherwise people like me :) would abuse the power that gave me to HELL! Finally, welcome to the forums, my friend, and I hope to see more posts from you in the future. If I had to rate this list, I'd say 7.5/10 for it as it is, and with a few modifications, 8/10. Well done!


In response to the 13th "If the army book or spell lore clearly states that a model can exchange another spell for the spell in question" is one of the exceptions listed for being able to have duplicates of a spell. I know i've never had problems with the size of my clanrat units, but what would you suggest would be a big enough size? (bearing in mind that they are partially there for the weapon teams). Also i know it has no punch in combat, but usually stubborn and positioning is enough to keep me safe. apart from a ward save on the grey seers, what benefit would a unit of 35 clanrats have over 25 other than being in combat longer? shooting does make the units vulnerable at this size but I've got the storm banner which helps, and the gutter runners are useful artillery hunters. though if worse comes to worse, grey seers usually stand at ld7 with a bsb so just hop into another unit. i agree with the shields on the slaves, saving 1/6 of a unit of 40 with a parry save saves 6.6, how ever against s3 the shield is more effective than the extra 10 models. what i find with most monsters is that cracks call is good enough to deal with them - off the top of my head the only monsters not i3 or lower are the hellpit and weaker dragons, where as hydra's, stegadons, shaggoths, sphinxes, treemen and terragist are in the lower half of a dice roll. and in terms of combat strength yes, i admit i have nothing other than a plague priest in the stormvermin unit, but is there much in the skaven army other than a hellpit which is particularly great without forking out points on big units of plague monks or rat ogres? i feel that marching the big units of slavse infront of their main combat units and being ld10 stubborn with a bsb near by is enough, especially with the ability to mostly outflank other armies due to my large number of units.

i know this might seem like i'm rejecting your advice but i really don't mean it to come across this way, i'm just trying to get a more effective progression for my army by combining my methodology with yours.

the worlds nerd
18-09-2011, 21:16
oh and thank you for the welcome by the way :)

BlackPawl
19-09-2011, 13:16
Your army will suffer from the storm banner too if it is active, so to relay on your own artillery to kill big monsters is not a ggod way. and even if it id activated your enemy will get one or two shoots through, so one or two hits from a stonethrower / mortar etc. will wipe out one of your clanrat units and maybe results in panic.

And yes, a cracks call is a good way to kill most monsters (and steamtanks), but you can never trust magic because your enemy could have a dispel scroll.

40 slaves are not enough to tarpit a good unit, even empire helbardiers will kill them and have the ranks to break them. Take more of them.

I too would like it to have access to all skaven spells, but for me two GS are little bit to expensive. I would spend the points in bigger units, a doomrocket for the warlock, maybe a naked warlock with the Brass Orb (an insurance against monsters if your cracks call is dispelled, stolen or destroyed), poison and slings for the gutter runner.

the worlds nerd
19-09-2011, 15:29
why would you spend the points on slings and poison on gutter runners?

and storm banner wont effect any of my shooting at all because it's all magical :P

and say yes, they dispel cracks call, that makes the 13th with power scroll really easy to get off too so if they do cracks call it for me it's not the end of the world.

and yes, i agree, a unit of empire halbardiers will break unit of slaves, but do you think they would be reaching me at full strength?

is two grey seers much more expensive than a grey seer on a bell, the most common alternative i see?

i agree storm banners only 50/50 too, which is the only reason i have a unit of gutter runners. but that's something every army must suffer against too.

i know this might seem like i'm just rejecting your advice but i don't mean to, i just want to know what i'll benefit from by having a bigger unit of clanrats in terms for when they reach combat? surely going to kill a grey seer in combat it's best to be able to run with the extra +1 to flee and then try and rally instead of being locked in combat with them constantly allocating attacks on a seer. the units of clanrats to me are in a sense just throw away units to hide in.

i think the naked warlock with the brass orb is a very good thing to try and fit in, and so would the doom rocket. i would like to have bigger units of clanrats too, but then too me they then go from being something cheap i don't mind loosing to something i try to protect with my life.

the worlds nerd
20-09-2011, 21:29
apologies blackpawl, after checking the FAQ's again i realise you were right about the stormbanner. having realised this i think i'll drop that from my list and use the 50pts to add in the naked warlock engineer with brass orb and slings on the gutter runners as recommended. apologies again for thinking you were wrong :)