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Athariel
19-09-2011, 08:03
Hi all I need some help with my new Tomb Kings so far my results with it have been poor fielding large blocks of skeletons and generally using fun and fluffy lists.

It seems however that at 1000 points I keep facing people bringing uber tough Ogre armies, Hell Pit Abominations and Hydras which I am struggling to reliably kill with losing half my army.

So below is my idea for a list to help deal with those things and my next battle is Wednesday against the new Ogre book and am expecting to play against a cheesy list :(. (Its difficult for me to get games where I am so i have to take what I can get)

Liche High Priest
Level 4
Earthing Rod

3 x Chariot
Standard Bearer
Banner of Eternal Flame

31 Skeleton Warriors (Liche High Priest goes here)

Warsphinx
Fiery Roar

Necrosphinx

999pts


I have all the models above but am fortunate at the moment that I could purchase anything needed to change the above list if I don't already have it. So drastic changes are welcome.


Many thanks for your help.

Athariel
19-09-2011, 15:17
I have read that the Necrosphinx is not a good choice.

So I guess I am really asking is there a better way to spend 225 points, i.e. should I go with a SSC and a Casket. Not sure though that lack of dice will be a problem for one Level 4 though.

That also leaves me with only The Warsphinx and the Chariots as hard hitting units and the chariots are very fragile I have found.

What are your thoughts?

fusionmonkey
19-09-2011, 15:40
i agree that necro sphinxes are a pretty poor chose as the the decapitating strike has about an 8% chance of actualy heroic killing blow a monster.

for those points i would get 2 screaming skull catapults as they are flaming can hit a hydra and hellpit for d6 wounds and are still very good against infanty and they are only 180 for the two

and i personaly prefer archers to the standard warrior as even with the sheild and hand weapon they still die in droves and for 2 points more it does more dammage out side of combat.

but overall i think the list is really good. and if people are taking hellpits at 1000pts then god help you

grhino
20-09-2011, 07:40
Just get a big block on infantry with a Tomb Prince in there - with high WS they're not half bad - just get hw/shield as they are cheap and get that parry save. Make the wizard a lvl 2 if possible within the allowed points and get those skull catapult...

Athariel
20-09-2011, 07:52
Yes the Skaven are a particular problem. I returned to the hobby after a 10 year break and my second intro game to the 8th I was using 100o points of Dark Elves.

A doom rocket killed have my Corsairs in the first turn, then a Hellpit went on to kill my spearmen block and Cold One Knights simultaneously before my crossbowmen and sorceress after using up her dispel scroll got hit with the dreaded thirteenth spell from a Grey Seer turned them into clanrats who went on to kill my Reaper Bolt Thrower. Quite simply it was a massacre not a great intro game.

That is the kind of list I will be facing with my Tomb Kings though I do know my next game is against the new ogres and it will be as powerful a list as the guy can make it.

I think I will change the warriors to bowmen as they will be trying to avoid as much combat as possible though that reduces the numbers from 31 to 20 and leaves me 5 points spare.

I am just concerned that going with 2 artillery pieces will not be enough to stop the ogre advance and once they are in close combat it will be over. What about a Colossus?

Athariel
20-09-2011, 09:05
Ok so re looking at the list I have come up with the following

Liche Priest
Level 2
Earthing Rod
Iron Curse Icon

3 x Chariot
Standard Bearer
Banner of Eternal Flame

20 x Skeleton Bowmen
Musician

2 x Warsphinx with Fiery Roar

1 x Screaming Skull Catapult

This comes to exactly 1000 points what say you to this list taking on Ogres.

Spiney Norman
20-09-2011, 11:22
Ok so re looking at the list I have come up with the following

Liche Priest
Level 2
Earthing Rod
Iron Curse Icon

3 x Chariot
Standard Bearer
Banner of Eternal Flame

20 x Skeleton Bowmen
Musician

2 x Warsphinx with Fiery Roar

1 x Screaming Skull Catapult

This comes to exactly 1000 points what say you to this list taking on Ogres.

If I were you I'd stick with the combat skellies over the archers. Skelly archers are good at shooting, but you're going to need at least one block that can stay in combat, and 20 archers will not do that. The difference between priest/high priest is down to personal preference and what you will be facing, I'd be inclined to go for the Level 4 because those extra spells will enable to use all your PD and the +4 to cast will help you to actually get spells through, something TK really need IMHO. As an alternative you could look at 2 level 2s instead, which means you would be able to take the sig spell from LoN twice.

As for the sphinxes 2 warshinxes is better than one and a necro, and I would imagine a lot of armies would fine two T8 targets quite a problem to deal with at this pts level.

Athariel
20-09-2011, 11:45
Thanks for the replies so far.

That pretty much takes me back to my original list with a level 4 and 2 Warsphinxes instead of 1 Warsphinx and 1 Necrosphinx.

This does leave me without an SSC though.

So then it really comes down too at 1000pts what is better (in particular against ogres) a Warsphinx or 2 x SSC or 1 x SSC and 1 x Casket?

grhino
20-09-2011, 18:46
Why not take necropolis knights against Ogres - they will do a great job taking out small units and are very points-effective...

Athariel
22-09-2011, 20:12
Played the game on wednesday night with the first list in the thread.

Game went terribly mission was battle line

He had a Bruiser with 6 Ironguts, 3 Maneaters, 8 Ogres, 4 Lead Belchers.

Chariots got crushed by Ironguts even though they charged.

Warshinx and Necrosphinx killed the Ogres but were shot to bits by Lead Belchers and Maneaters but not before my level 4 was sniped out of his bunker by the Maneaters after 3 horrible magic phases failing to cast base level spells with 3 dice.

By turn 6 I had nothing left except the Necrosphinx who had 1 wound left.

Not being able to thunderstomp and terror only being fear (he failed 2 checks) really hurt the sphinxes. not being able to use killing blow also hurt both sphinxes as that could have really helped against the 3 wound models. Didn't get heroic killing blow once. This combined with steadfast meant that I was just unable to break units.

Losing the Heirophant to being sniped and having almost no magic phase due to poor rolls was a killer too as I was unable to regenerate wounds.

Man of the match Necrosphinx only because he can fly.

All in all another horrid game with Tomb Kings 4 games 4 total losses having now lost to Skaven, Dark Elves, Wood Elves and now the new Ogres. Each list being a slight variation on the one above.

To be honest getting to the point where I am just gonna shelve them and focus on painting only.

Psygon
22-09-2011, 22:29
To be honest getting to the point where I am just gonna shelve them and focus on painting only.

While I understand the feeling, I think you should keep at it and do one of two things:

1) Play larger sized games (+2000pts). I do not play Tomb Kings, but I know VC often do better in larger sized games where the supporting characters they need can be fielded. With the two armies being undead and all, I figure the same holds true for TK.

2) Take more bodies. A general rule for small games, where more troops will help much more than a few cantrips. Looking at your last list, you have 3 chariots, a block of twenty troops, two sphinxes, and a catapult. All those things (barring the sphinxes) are rather squishy, as they just don't have enough numbers. So, possibly consider taking a big block of skeleton warriors (+40), a large unit of chariots (+6), your spell caster, and then fit in something like a warsphinx. This gives you an anvil, magical support, and two hammers.

Athariel
23-09-2011, 07:02
To be honest I just don't know what else to do and for clarification I was using the list in the first post in this thread.

The ogres hit the unit of 31 skeleton warriors and went through them like they weren't even there causing such a large negative combat result many more crumbled. They lasted 2 combat phases. I am not sure another 9 skeletons would have made any difference. Heriophant was dead at this point. There seemed to be no way of stopping the maneaters sniping him and once he was gone the game result was in no doubt.

Not even sure a block of Tomb Guard would help you don't get killing blow and the Ogres would be able to stomp me and thats after getting the impact hits from charging.

Yamabushi
23-09-2011, 08:00
Athariel, if you don't mind me being blunt, that's not a very good list. I have a few key points which may be of help to you:

a) Skeleton Warriors suck, period. Without a Prince/King to provide WS, its even worse. No wonder they evaporated against what is essentially a mini ogre deathstar. If you wanted a Liche bunker, might as well get a unit of Archers for him. That way, you can provide some fire support behind your lines and take care of chaff units.

b) It is essential for our chariots to get the charge, as much of their killing power comes from impact hits. Do not simply charge them into rank and file! As although they have the killing power initially, their strength ebbs quickly in subsequent combats. Use them to take out small number of elite troops or supporting a charge. Never send them in alone against rank and file unless you are very sure you can win / or there is some support there as well. Flank and rear if you can, using your speed. Overrunning the enemy army's flank, reforming and then hitting from the rear if possible...

c) Unstable. This is something which you have to consider, when committing your units in multiple combats. Imagine a block of skeletons engaged by the ogre-star, if you sent in your sphinx to help, that's a major mistake, as the sphinx will crumble due to CR bleed from the skellies. Sometimes its best to let them die alone than to send in help.

d) Magic. I know that the common perception for TK is that they NEED magic to survive. Not so much this edition as magic is unstable. The death of our Hierophant isn't that terrible IF a Prince or King is present (as the constructs wont crumble much). Check out the Tomb Kings forums at www.tomb-kings.net . Several of us are trying magic-lite, and the results seem to be more successful than expected. Some even reported higher wins! Also, facing close combat armies, you can dispense with the Sig spell, as the enemy will be coming to you anyway. Against Ogres (and generally speaking), the 5+ Ward is more important (IMHO) to make up for our lack of armor.

e) Tomb Guard. Killing blow doesnt work on Ogres, yes. But S4 T4 makes them harder to wound you and easier for you to wound them, which means in the event that you lose combat, you wont suffer so much CR loss. Also, do note that Tomb Guard Initiative is higher than Ogres, so hopefully you will be inflicting some kills on him first.

f) Sphinxes. Remember to force Ogres to take fear tests when engaging a sphinx, as the constructs cause terror. Ogre Ld isn't stellar, so a failed test will cause them dearly. If you have Tomb Guard engaged in the flank, then it will be extremely delicious... which means you forces will have to be relatively close to each other, for mutual support.

That said, how about this here list:

Tomb Prince
Talisman of Endurance
Great Weapon
^ His Royal Highness goes with his personal Guard for WS5 killiness. A great weapon gives you a way to wound high toughness opponents. Keep him in the corner of the unit to minimize attacks at him

Liche Priest Level 2
^ Naked Priest works fine, goes into archer bunker

Archers x 21, Musician
^ Priest bunker, Musician is there to perform swift reforms, so that you can reform and fire

Chariots x 4, Standard, Eternal Flame
^ Combo charge with sphinx / Guard against regen beasties to ensure that flaming attacks negate regeneration. Alternatively, shoot flaming arrows at that Hydra and follow up with 21 archer shots

Warsphinx
^ Tanker. Use this to absorb charges while you circle around with Chariots or Guard. Alternatively when facing light infantry, this statue can easily munch through them

Tomb Guard x 15, Musician
^ The multi purpose tool. With a Prince inside, they become WS5 S4 T4 dudes that can perform a lot of roles: Absorbing a charge from light to medium infantry (and killing them back) to taking down heavy cav. On a side note, always try to combo the Sphinx and Guard together if you can, as both are fairly survivable and killy.

Good luck and do not give up!!

EDIT: How about Necropolis Knights? They are considered one of the best options in our book :)

Athariel
23-09-2011, 14:36
Thank you for the help. Be as blunt as you like always happy to take criticism in order to improve.

Much of what you said I was at least partially aware of. the chariots charged the iron guts the warsphinx was going as well but failed his charge due to fluffing the dice :(.

I wasn't aware though that going magic light would be effective that certainly opens things up at 1000pts.

I will give the tomb guard a go as well as try out some Necropolis Knights using your list as a basis I like its format and even fits in to the fluff well as being fairly balanced nice.

I know people say necrosphinx is bad but he was certainly stellar against Ogres though in the other matches I have played the Warsphinx was better.


Many thanks,

Off to buy so Tomb Guard and some Necropolis Knights

Mister Blak
28-09-2011, 15:51
the nercrosphinx, contrary to popular belief, is good, but so specialised against multi-wound models that he is not really good enough for his cost (in money).
otherwise, what you get is a mediocre monster killer that nerfs small units of multi-wound models ( something OK and DOC have tons of) but simply cannot put out the wounds against large, ranked up units of single-wound elites, or even rank-and-file due to his instability.
the warsphinx on the other hand is good, at least, against everything but monstrous infantry/cavalry/beasts ( who are immune to thundercrush) and is still good against most monsters with its T8, so is better value for money.

grhino
30-09-2011, 06:55
Remember that ogres struggle against higher ws, and have low armour saves. A horde of skellies with a tomb prince in there can seriously hurt an ogre unit.... and they're hard to take out. Chariots can also be expected to do serious damage against ogres, as they lack the ranks to stay steadfast and have low T& a.s. - take four with a prince in there as well (thus 5 chariots in total) and you'll be chasing ogres all over the place...