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metalloveman
19-09-2011, 17:44
So I was thinking about a second army for fantasy. I was looking for a army like skaven or empire where there are alot of extra shooty toys, but I always hated how skaven don't have a basic missle trooper, and with empire I could never work the detachment rule in a way I liked. I saw the new ogre book and it has alot of cool extra shooty stuff in rare and special, but I don't know if I'll have the same problem as in the skaven book where I wish I had crossbowmen.

My point is how would I go about biulding a shooty ogre list? lots of gnoblars and 2 medium irongut/basic ogres for core? lots of leadbelchers and poisoned-scout maneaters? a pair ironblasters a scraplauncher or 2 and a thundertusk?
What about heros/lords? is the hunter worth his points in this sort of list?

Your thoughts please, tyrants of warseer.

MrCarbohydrate
19-09-2011, 18:57
My initial gut reaction, which is appropriate for Ogres I'd think, is Don't Do It.

Yeah, they get some neat stuff in Special and Rare, but if you didn't like Skaven not having a core shooty then you'll get annoyed the same way with Ogres, especially after realizing after core and characters you don't have a ton of space left. At least, if you're looking at 2000 point games, and not 5000 point games. :)

Purplenewt
19-09-2011, 19:03
umm correct me if i'm wrong but arnt night runners core in a skaven army and can be equipped with slings for 18" ranged stuff? just a thought

MrCarbohydrate
19-09-2011, 19:23
Yes, you can give Night Runners slings for 18" ranged, Strength 3 attack. Hey, they shoot twice.

A unit of 20 of those is only slightly less cost than 40 Clanrats with Spears (I like spears dang it), and is actually 60 points more than 40 Skavenslaves with Spears.

Since Skaven generally like to bog down rather than use their core to kill folks, you'll want even more than 40 in your core units, and Night Runners with Slings get too expensive for what they do.

Scammel
19-09-2011, 19:30
There's no reason I can see why shooty Ogres wouldn't work less well than any other non-uber competitive Ogre list. A chunky unit of Leadbelchers can inflict serious hurt on pretty much anything at range, and you can fill up your rare with a pair of very sexiful Ironblasters and a Scraplauncher. Though they won't be contributing much with their shooting, Gnoblars can help bog down the foe and otherwise keep them off the back of your key units.

Don't be fooled into thinking the army is going to be winning battles at range though - the shooting is another means of getting Ogres into to combats they can win, like how other players might rely on GM buffs or get into the enemy deployment zone early and wreak havoc before the rest of the army charges. You'll be looking at trying to get 2-3 turns of shooting before delivering the killing blow. If you're looking for a gunline, look elsewhere.

Sexiest_hero
19-09-2011, 19:43
Yes, you can give Night Runners slings for 18" ranged, Strength 3 attack. Hey, they shoot twice.

A unit of 20 of those is only slightly less cost than 40 Clanrats with Spears (I like spears dang it), and is actually 60 points more than 40 Skavenslaves with Spears.

Since Skaven generally like to bog down rather than use their core to kill folks, you'll want even more than 40 in your core units, and Night Runners with Slings get too expensive for what they do.

Well you arnt going to get a cheap shooty core outside of WE and DE. Night runners get to sulk into cover and shoot, They arn't slaves, but neither is anything else. You could take 20 man clan rats and weapon teams.

That said shooty ogres Can work, as ogres are beffy enough to be able to win in combat even if they are shooting.

snottlebocket
19-09-2011, 19:45
Not the most effective but if you want to... We already started dubbing that big monster with the catapult and bolt throwers the Leman Russ.

metalloveman
19-09-2011, 20:22
Sexiest_hero, what do you think a DE 8th ed shooty(not total gunline thats not what i'm going for) would look like?

well the problem with skaven was that I had to take clanrats for weapon teams and slaves for cheap fodder and slings. and having to take both units ate up to many points.

I came up with something like this

lords
tyrant
brace of pistols
ironcurse icon
other sugestions?


firebelly
lvl2
scepter of stability
potion of speed
great weapon
5+ward 211

firebelly
lvl2
dispell scroll
asf sword 205

bruiser
heavy armor
single pistol
enchantedsheild
talisman of 4+ward
bsb 190

heros606/625

9ironguts
ful com 417

30gnoblars
music
trapper 110

30gnoblars
music
trapper 110

core637/625

4maneaters(what do you guys think for USRs?)
4braces of pistols
music 246

4leadbelchers
music 182

4leadbelchers
music 182

4leadbelchers
music 182

special
thundertusk

iron blaster

iron blaster
rare590/625

I thought lore of fire would be better than a gut caster for this list + cool models if i follow through.

sulla
20-09-2011, 21:15
I think the cannons are a no-brainer. Super accurate anti monster/artillery weapons; check. After that, I would think you would need only one or two auxilliary shooting units to kill diverters. Either leadbelchers or maneaters would do the job just fine.

colonel kane trine
20-09-2011, 21:22
Skavenslaves with slings are 2 1/2 points each and core
Anyway on topic I wouldnt go with fulLy shooty ogres as I think they are a great close combat army!

Sexiest_hero
20-09-2011, 21:30
Crossbowmen dark riders and shades, and corsairs. you get three shooty core and one shooty special. with out being all out shooting gun line.

OgreWargaming
21-09-2011, 03:35
Try sniper and poison on the maneaters. Hellheart is such a nice item, i'd recommend dropping the asf sword and giving that firebelly the potion of swiftness. The other firebelly can then carry the hellheart. Also I find units of 6 leadbelchers 3x2 to be pretty effective rather than units of 4.
For your list, also consider dropping the thundertusk to take more maneaters.

metalloveman
21-09-2011, 04:22
colonel kane trine, I already explained the skaven shooing problem. you need clan rats to buy weapons teams but they don't don anything for your gunline, and slaves can shoot but can't take weapons teams.

OgreWargaming, what do you suggest for USRs on a second maneater unit, combo's of sniper/poison/scout/vanguard. I kinda like the thundertusk, shoots a half a stone thrower, half a bolt thrower and is good in combat for when the enemy get to my lines.
Also hellheart has a short range no, if so it doesn't fit the list as well.

lords
tyrant
brace of pistols
ironcurse icon 229
this is all I could fit(he'll be fine he's t5 w5)

firebelly
lvl2
scepter of stability
potion of speed
great weapon
5+ward 211

firebelly
lvl2
dispell scroll
asf sword 205

bruiser
heavy armor
single pistol
enchantedsheild
talisman of 4+ward
bsb 190

heros606/625

9ironguts
ful com 417

29gnoblars
music
trapper 107.5

30gnoblars
music
trapper 110

core634.5/625

4maneaters(what do you guys think for USRs?)
4braces of pistols
music 246

4leadbelchers
music 182

4leadbelchers
music 182

4leadbelchers
music 182

special
thundertusk

iron blaster
rare470/625

I had to drop an ironblaster for the tyrant to fit, but he's pretty vital. Once stuff hits my units I want them to hold to the bitter end and rerollable ld 9 should help.

Vsurma
21-09-2011, 05:08
The tyrant does not have a role in your shooty list.
Sure he has a pistol... but at 230 pts you can do a lot better.

You could drop the tyrant and a firebelly and instead take a slaughtermaster as your general. Drop 15pts for the banner of dicipline on your irongut unit which your SM joins and you have the same ld9 the tyrant would give.

You also have a better magic phase with more spells and +4 to cast. Since your tyrant isn't wielding any special weapons you can equip your SM to do about as much damage but overall ogres have enough damage dealers that they don't really need their characters for this role.

SM, firebelly and bruiser bsb will do you fine for characters and save you about 200pts as well.

Why such large/small trapper units?
10 with trapper is enough to cause the difficult terrain tests, 15 maybe.
30 is not enough to hold against many units, even holding for 1 turn seems unlikely.

I think you would likely do better with a unit of 10-15 with trappers to get in the way of a large unit and cause some deaths. Then another larger unit say 50 which will actually hold for a turn or 2.

Since you want a "shooty" army I think the best bet would likely be 5*10 trapper units. Push them forward at bad angles and buy a turn of movement each, they can also kill a few with the dangerous terrain tests.

As it is your army doesn't actually shoot very much at all. If you really want a shooty army then a unit of 6 MEs with sniper/poison makes sense imo.

Most people can't fit them into fast advancing armies but since your going to be sitting back and firing whenever you can I think the unit would serve you well.

Sniping their lv4 or bsb will help you greatly.
You could also combine a unit or 2 of leadbelchers. A unit of 8 would have the same shooting power and some combat potential. 4 ogres isn't going to wipe out a unit with shooting so it is unlikely that any shots will be wasted by combining some belcher units.

lovedinplaster
21-09-2011, 06:14
Hate to bring it back to this.. But skaven CAN and is possibly the MOST shooth army.

nightrunners have throwing stars, slaves can have 2x multiple shot at only a total cost of 3 points..jezzails, gutter runners, engineers, stormvermin fangleader, warpfire throwers, rattling guns, globadiers, poison wind mortar, warplightning cannon, doomwheel. Catapault. You could easily field 200 slaves with slings at only 600 pts.. Putting out a potential 120-str. 3 bs3 ranged attacks a turn. If you field them 10wide 5 deep.. Or crap.. Go 20 wide.. 2 deep.. And keep your general near by

Confessor_Atol
21-09-2011, 21:29
Vsurma has the right idea.....

Drop the Tyrant, and change one firebelly to a level 1 gut-maw butcher with hell heart.

Use those points to take a level 4 with some, non-gut, shooty magic (maybe fire?). Give him crown of command, and fencer's blades.

Run the bealchers in units of 6 or 8.

Put the level 1 butcher, the level 4 butcher, and the bsb into the iron gut unit. Now if your opponent reaches your line, he'll have to allocate every attack onto either the champ or a character.

Turtleking
21-09-2011, 23:41
I proxied up and played a game with massive leadbelchers and cannons.

Was not impressed.

Mercules
22-09-2011, 13:20
I proxied up and played a game with massive leadbelchers and cannons.

Was not impressed.

You likely did it wrong then. I would be willing to bet you treated them as shooting units instead of combat units that can shoot. ;)

I know my opponents get a bit wide eyed when my unit of 6 LBs that have been shooting him suddenly shift gears and charge into combat. It is like a light goes on in their brain and they suddenly realize that that unit is still 6 Ogres with Impact hits, Stomps, and 18 attacks.

Thalenchar
22-09-2011, 13:33
I agree that you have too many points in characters. You don't really need a tyrant in this list. Having 2 wizards is of course ok, but you might want to trade one firebelly for a SM. Also, a bsb is really something that you'll miss when you don't bring it to the table.

I have had some success with running units of 8 leadbelchers since they can put out a punishing amount of shots and are still decent enough in combat (which you will want them to end up in, eventually).

For a shooty Ogre army I would choose Sniper your maneaters as one of the two options. You'll be doing most of you damage in the shooting phase (the first few turns anyway) and being able to pick out champions/characters will only make your shooting more dangerous (and more 'fluffy').

shaun03
23-09-2011, 04:09
wood elves for shooty army, or all skins

Mercules
23-09-2011, 06:34
wood elves for shooty army, or all skins

Could you have made a less useful comment? If the OP wanted a WE or Lizardman army he would be asking about that. He is speaking about a shooty Ogre list. That doesn't mean it will shoot better than other armies, but that it will be able to deal with things at range, and then being Ogres smash it in close.