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AnthonyLR13
20-09-2011, 01:55
I have chosen to start a Tau army as my first fortay into 40k, because most importantly i like the fluff, look and models of the Tau and secondly i love the shooty possibilities.

Now i know everyone is saying how broken they are and what not but i think itll be fine since they will hopefully have a new codex soon. Also i dont play on entering tourneys anytime soon also, So my question is to start a 500pt or 750pt army without buying thier battlebox what units should i include and how would a look list?

500-750pt Tau army list, what models should i start buying to make a good list?

AnthonyLR13
20-09-2011, 01:59
also i forgot to mention that i wanna try and include an ethereal somewhere in the army, because ive heard that they are useless but i love the models and fluff, and think the increased leadership will help. I dont mind if i cant fit them in my starting low points army but would like to integrate them in my army in the future when i grow the points.

So i was wondering how i can best utlize an ethereal in say a 1000-1500pt army?

Charistoph
20-09-2011, 02:26
Is there any reason you don't want to buy the battlebox?

To start with, you will need a Crisis Suit as a commander, a Fire Warrior squad, and another Troop (which would be another squad of Fire Warriors or a squad of Kroot). This is the minimum for most games, as outlined by the Codex.

Crisis Suits are the bread and butter of the Tau Cadre at this time. They are versatile, manueverable, and have access to most of the weapons you will need to be successful. You really can never have too many of these, provided you've filled your obligations in Troops and Heavy Support.

If Crisis Suits are the bread and butter of the Tau, the Railgun is the hammer. They are one of the scariest guns in 40K, and only available in your Heavy Support. It doesn't really matter how you take them, just fill your Heavy Support slots with them, and you really can't go wrong. For collection, I'd recommend a minimum target of 4 Broadsides and 2 Sky Rays (they come with the Hammerhead turret, so build them with that in mind, the Sky Ray rack is rather meh, at the moment). This will allow you to have a flexible mix of vehicles and battlesuits.

Everything else is to taste. They aren't as effective of options as the above 3, but they can be useful if used properly.

My only word of caution I would give is be very careful of Ethereals. They will have a target on their chests as soon as they hit the table (which is the only way you can actually use them, on the table and not riding a 'Fish), and there is a very good reason for this. My first suggestion is use him as an Objective marker, as he is generally not worth the price to field. If you absolutely must field him, give him 2 Shield Drones and park him with your Broadsides. He'll give them Fearless and 2 more Shield Drones and he'll have a commanding view of the battlefield allowing your units to use his buffs.

Konovalev
20-09-2011, 04:41
My first suggestion is use him as an Objective marker.

Exactly what I use my Aun Shi model for... quite depressing actually...

red_drake
20-09-2011, 05:22
So my question is to start a 500pt or 750pt army without buying thier battlebox what units should i include and how would a look list?

you should *really* get a battleforce... It comes with everything you need for a minimum sized army (crisis comander, firewariors), as well as some useful units like Kroot (which IIRC, are apparently the better troop choice?) and stealth suits.

All for much, much less than buying these things individually

Kakapo42
20-09-2011, 05:42
Well first thing's first. Regardless of weather you go with the Battleforce or not, or even what sort of cadre you'd like, your first thing to get should be Firewarriors. It's a mandatory requirement that you have at least one team, and it'll fill out half your minimum troop requirements. After that either an HQ choice or another troops choice, and you'll have a legal army.

After that it's largely your call, although you'll want at least one Railgun equipped unit, and probably a Crisis team as well.

With the Ethereal, putting him in a bunch of Broadsides is a good idea, but also remember that with an Ethereal you can field a team of Honour Guard, which are Firewarriors with improved ballistic skill.

ForgottenLore
20-09-2011, 05:50
I don't know what you budget is like or whether you want to mess with Forgeworld yet, but the FW battlesuits are AWESOME looking models. The regular plastic crisis suits look good, the FW ones look incredible.

Also, don't buy any hammerhead kits, buy the skyray It comes with all the parts for the hammerhead, plus the parts for the skyray, and is cheaper. (unless they have somehow changed the contents, it has been a couple years since I bought one).

AnthonyLR13
20-09-2011, 06:08
i apologize i kind of phrased that wrong, actually my mistake totally looking better at the battlebox for Tau i realize how worthwhile it is, unlike the SM or SW battle boxes which gives you undesirable units. So yes i plan on getting the battle box :)

ok so im going to get the battlebox, what would be my next purchase? what would be wiser to get i notice that the Suit i get in the box will have to function as my HQ so would getting heavy support units be my next step and if so which?

btw thank you for all you help, i feel its a big leap choosin the Tau army but their my favorite despite everyone i know telling me theyre worthless i guess the reassurance that theyre other Tau players out there helps

also i havent read everything available to me i understand Kroot lines for my firebases and what not with everything else, im still unclear on pathfinders and the elite stealths and stealth armours roles in my force?

and also thnks for the tip about buying a sky ray instead of hammerhead!!! great idea but lastly say if i already have a hammerhead in the army (which i dont) i was just wondering what a sky rays role is ?


PS ive read alittle on ethereals, mostly fluff but im wondering why they are such a target, and besides the high point cost why they are undesirable?

Kakapo42
20-09-2011, 06:15
I'd suggest getting a railgun equipped unit next, probably a Hammerhead for the versatility (they can fire submunitions against softer targets) and the fact that they look awesome. As others have said get the Skyray box for parts and price. You also mentioned wanting an Ethereal, so maybe that as well.

AnthonyLR13
20-09-2011, 06:25
ive been looking at the Forge world models and the crisis suits do look amazing i just have a couple questions? are Forge world models aloud at GW stores (just incase) and also im seeing alot of vehicles and ships along with a couple turrent guns i dont see listed in their codex or on the GW website?

Kakapo42
20-09-2011, 06:35
ive been looking at the Forge world models and the crisis suits do look amazing i just have a couple questions? are Forge world models aloud at GW stores (just incase) and also im seeing alot of vehicles and ships along with a couple turrent guns i dont see listed in their codex or on the GW website?

The rules for them can be found in Imperial Armour Volume 3, which is available on Forgeworld.

Charistoph
20-09-2011, 07:42
i apologize i kind of phrased that wrong, actually my mistake totally looking better at the battlebox for Tau i realize how worthwhile it is, unlike the SM or SW battle boxes which gives you undesirable units. So yes i plan on getting the battle box :)

Very good idea. If you have the budget and time, even two aren't bad (though certain parts of it may be excessive for your build).


ok so im going to get the battlebox, what would be my next purchase? what would be wiser to get i notice that the Suit i get in the box will have to function as my HQ so would getting heavy support units be my next step and if so which?

As I said earlier, get Broadsides and Sky Ray model kits, usually a minimum of 4 and 2, respectively. The Sky Ray kit allows for some nice doodads, costs the same as a Hammerhead, and still includes everything you need from the basic Devilfish, to Warfish (Devilfish with Smart Missile System), to IonHead (Hammerhead with Ion Cannon), to RailHead (Hammerhead with Railgun), to Sky Ray (just don't glue the back door, the Sky Ray turret kinda needs it).

From there it depends on what your desires are. Usual setup usually has 2 RailHeads and 2-3 Broadsides or 1 RailHead and 4-6 Broadsides. But don't be afraid to field 3 Railheads or up to 9 Broadsides. All these configurations can be quite useful.


btw thank you for all you help, i feel its a big leap choosin the Tau army but their my favorite despite everyone i know telling me theyre worthless i guess the reassurance that theyre other Tau players out there helps

Worthless, no. Difficult to fight most of the 5th Edition armies and win, definitely.


also i havent read everything available to me i understand Kroot lines for my firebases and what not with everything else, im still unclear on pathfinders and the elite stealths and stealth armours roles in my force?

Pathfinders are the primary source of Marker Lights in a Cadre. Marker Lights improve a unit's shooting, remove cover saves, call in Seeker Missiles, or reduce a target's Leadership. While you can fit Marker Lights in every FOC slot, Pathfinders are usually the most cost effective.

Stealth Suits are harrassers and screeners. They can be very difficult to hit as they have a field that let's them hide in plain sight. They can carry some decent weapons, and can grant their Stealth Field to Marker Light Drones! If they can pull fire from other units (and then be "out of range" to the ones firing at them), they've done their job, but they can also bring some good firepower down if ignored.


and also thnks for the tip about buying a sky ray instead of hammerhead!!! great idea but lastly say if i already have a hammerhead in the army (which i dont) i was just wondering what a sky rays role is ?

Originally, it was an anti-aircraft model used in Apocalypse where there are Fliers available. When brought in to regular 40K, it is a secondary Marker Light carrier and Missile Ship. The Seekers it carries can be used in Anti-Tank or Anti-Power Armor roles.


PS ive read alittle on ethereals, mostly fluff but im wondering why they are such a target, and besides the high point cost why they are undesirable?

They have a special rule that causes all Tau on the field (not in vehicles) to take a Panic test when they die, and if they fail, they run off the board. And considering how they have no armor or shields, it doesn't take much to actually kill them. The only way to protect him is to surround him with either a lot of bodies, or really tough bodies.


ive been looking at the Forge world models and the crisis suits do look amazing i just have a couple questions? are Forge world models aloud at GW stores (just incase) and also im seeing alot of vehicles and ships along with a couple turrent guns i dont see listed in their codex or on the GW website?

You can fit the Suits with regular gear, and they will work just fine, along with what Kakapo said.

AnthonyLR13
20-09-2011, 08:40
thank you everyone for the help especially christaroph, everyones answeres helped me greatly and i must admit the more i read up on tau (the codex) the more i am really liking them.

Even though they dont stack up against the 5th edition armies they are bound to have their own 5th edition codex i hope? when do yall think it will come out?

also cristaroph, you mention the different kind of hammerheads, which i find fascinating, now do the different variants all come in one box (as in different choices for the one hammerhead in one box) also it doesnt sound like the sky rays are all that useful or atleast point could be spent better else where? is that true?

and i guess im not really understanding the ethereals? so is it really not worth taking them at all for battle purposes? also ive seen all the HQ choices for my Tau and was wondering which ones are the best to take?

and finally i notice that drones come with alot of models selections point wise and physically, but am i able to take a drone squad separatley as they are good for intercepting enemies before they get to your fireline? i mean is there an option to take a squad of drones or do they only come as wargear options?

AnthonyLR13
20-09-2011, 08:48
also i like the idea of the tau empire employing its alien allies, not only will i use the kroot of course but i was wondering if anyone could give me an practical information on the vespid and if or how theyre used on the table top, or if theyre just another unused unit? :(

Fraf
20-09-2011, 09:47
On hammerheads : yes, both the ion cannon and the railgun comes on the hammerhead's sprue, however they share the same turret, so don't glue them on it (use blu-tac or magnetize it)

On skyrays : They're a poor execution of a great concept, and an overall worse tank as the hammerhead, even when you factor in costs.

On ethereals : There are lots of units in the game that are litterally useless and are just a waste of points, but the Ethereals are on their own league of "units that objectively makes your army worse than if you just didn't buy anything with the points and took a points handicap". It's a shame since the models and their fluff are so great (I own every version of them). as Charistoph said, if you really want them on the table, use them as objectives markers (which is also a realistic stake for a Tau cadre to engage in battle). Even an experienced Tau player will struggle with an ethereal in his list, so I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner.

On vespids : they're the codex's second worse unit. Again, great models, great fluff, great concept, but terrible execution. Their main problems are high cost and low resilience. Sure, their gun may seem scary to a marine player, but a gun is as good as its wielder, and vespids die and shoot like guardsmen, while having the squad size and price of marines. They may kill a small tactical squad in a volley of shooting + subsequent assault if you're lucky and gave them a favourable deployment, but even assuming they reach that point, they'll get shot to death next turn.

On drones : you can get gun drones squadrons in the fast attack slot. Other types of drones (marker, shield) are strictly bought as wargear, and sniper drones are their own unit in the heavy support slot.
Overall, few players buy them as a standalone unit. For starters, they are usually used as ablative wounds on valuable units. Next, for the purpose of tarpiting/speedbumping, Kroots, and to an extent, piranhas are better. Finally, for everything else the drones can do that kroots and piranhas can't, you can use vehicle drones which become their own little independant unit of 2 drones once you detach them (or a bigger unit in the case of a piranha squadron)


Also, about what to buy after the battleforce, take what Charistoph said with a grain of salt. Buying broadsides and hammerheads is a good idea, but don't buy that much at once, unless you have a big budget and can afford crisis suits too. My advice would be to buy crisis suits and railgun platforms (wether broadsides or hammerheads) evenly, so that for each heavy support slot you fill, you equally fill an elite slot with at least 2 (ideally three) crisis suits.
Once you can fill at least two thirds of both elite and heavy support slots, your choices for what to buy next open up :
- more elites or heavy support
- a piranha or two
- some pathfinders and a second devilfish
- more troops (ideally kroots)

Cleutin
20-09-2011, 12:02
Also, don't buy any hammerhead kits, buy the skyray It comes with all the parts for the hammerhead, plus the parts for the skyray, and is cheaper. (unless they have somehow changed the contents, it has been a couple years since I bought one).

The Skyray & Hammerhead kits are now the same price (31) but if you wanna save a few pound and are not bothered about the Skyray bits just buy a Devilfish and order the Hammerhead Weapons sprue from GWs Tau Bitz section. That what a friend of mine done so he can swap between having lots of Devilfish or Hammerheads.

Fraf
20-09-2011, 13:13
That what a friend of mine done so he can swap between having lots of Devilfish or Hammerheads.
Keep in mind by doing this, you'll have to make the nose turret swappable between burst cannon and the sensor array thingy. Not that it's a hard thing to do anyway, there are even tutorials to magnetize it.

The Orange
20-09-2011, 15:20
Yup, Battleforce is the best way to start. After that I'd honestly say get yourself another box of Firewarriors as having only one unit of them is very limiting. After that I'd say get a Hammerhead tank (the skyray box), and/or some more Crisis suits. The tank is easily one of the best units in the army and the rail gun is easy and fun to use. (The Ion gun saves you points, where as the skyray is something I'd hold off using until you have a better handle on your army.) The tanks types are pretty interchangable as long as your careful about what needs glue and what doesn't. Crisis suits on the other hand give you a wide range of weapons for multiple roles. A solid choice for a beginning army, especially since it's where the majority of Tau special weapons are.

In regards to vespids, they rely heavily on cover for survivability and need to get in close to the enemy to do their damage (which is sometimes not great). I would hold off on getting them for some time. I wouldn't call anything in the Tau army completely useless, but these guys tend to need support (like pathfinders marklights). There not the best choice for a starter army.

The Etherial gives a minor leadership boost to your army, but also carries consequences if killed. I don't see much point in using him in small games, their probably more useful in large games where you have several units they'll maintain LOS (thus gain a benefit from him).

For your HQ you have to take a Shas'el or a Shas'O in an XV8. I would avoid the special characters (and I believe they have a pt's requirement anyways). For small games you might as well go with the Shas'el commander as the Shas'O can get quite expensive.

DarkDrgon
20-09-2011, 16:33
Keep in mind by doing this, you'll have to make the nose turret swappable between burst cannon and the sensor array thingy. Not that it's a hard thing to do anyway, there are even tutorials to magnetize it.

The way I did it was to just put the targeting array on the hull somewhere. It looks natural, and the devilfish could take that upgrade too, so no one really complains.

Fraf
20-09-2011, 17:35
The way I did it was to just put the targeting array on the hull somewhere. It looks natural, and the devilfish could take that upgrade too, so no one really complains.
In fact, I was more concerned about your hammerheads/skyrays having 3 nurst cannons :D

DarkDrgon
20-09-2011, 17:41
If you blu-tac or magnetize the third cannon, you can swap it out with a plasticard covering. Still significantly easier than making sure that you can swap out 2 small bits. I'll take a picture when I can get to my models

Fraf
20-09-2011, 18:10
If you blu-tac or magnetize the third cannon,
That's what I was suggesting in the first place (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5791039&postcount=17) ....

FrozenLaughs
20-09-2011, 18:33
I started with 2 Battleboxes. With 2 boxes you get everything you need to get started.

12 Firewarrior make 1-2 squads, depending on what you want, and can fill the min for FoC
Another 12 can again be 1-2 squads, and/or honor guard for the Ethereal you want.

12-24 Kroot can be 1-2 squads again, although Krrot allow 20 per squad so you'd have 4 extra.

3-6 Stealth suits is the max per squad, and most players don't take more than 1 squad (if any, as Crisis usually out-perform in the long run)

The extra gundrones are ~meh~ most don't see play/assembly, or are proxied for shield drones.

The devilfish is always handy, and if you pick up 4-8 Pathfinders, they require a devilfish anyways (most players just leave them empty and load firewarriors into them)

The extra devilfish is your call. For 15$ you can by a hammerhead weapons sprue and 'voila! Hammerhead. Or as others have said, buy the Skyray kit, it's cheaper and still leaves you with the skyray turret.

2 crisis suits is the only downfall to the battleforces. You're gonna be like ~7 short of an effective army. Make that your first extra purchase. Then at least 3 broadsides, depending on what you like in Heavy. I've found a broadside squad of 3 tends to pack a better punch than a Railhead, leaving me free to use the (gasp) Ion cannon for squishier targets. Submunition shot is great, but the scatter tends to never go my way, whereas 3 Ion hits usually do. To each his own. :D

edit ~And YES magnetize your cannons so you can swap them out! I went a step farther, and my entire turret is screwed in, for 360*rotation, plus allowing me to swap for an entire skyray/devilfish assembly if I want, as well as a magnetized mount for the cannons.~

Fraf
20-09-2011, 18:47
The extra devilfish is your call.
Well, I'd say the third is debatable, but he'll always find a use for two devilfishes, even at small/mid points range.

Two devilfishes means two mobile and resilient scoring units (with the 60 points "firewarriors inside" upgrade). And those are the best scoring units in the Tau codex by a HUGE margin.
Not counting they can allow him to fiddle with pathfinders, serve as mobile cover or suits, etc ...

AnthonyLR13
20-09-2011, 19:32
thank you all for the awesome advice!!!

What are they point of the pathfinder teams? are they just used for the marker lights, to make my shooting more accurate or do they have other purposes as well? and also i dont hear much about the pirahna (SP) but in alot of tactics im ready theyre essential to cut enemy advance off, so do they have a place in a small point army or only when i have more points to spare?

Also, im just starting out with a 500-750pt army so i was wondering with the battlebox included what choices i have and what the lay out will somewhat look like

and lastly where are some of the best places online to look for the Tau batttlebox, because on the GW site i see its going for 110 and thats no fun! :(

PS are kroot shapers are a waste of points to take in a kroot squad? And are kroot hounds a good choice to take also since they have melee? And lastly are krootox riders a good choice i love the way the models look?

Rogerio
20-09-2011, 21:10
I ve recently started a Tau army, I bought a squad of 12 Firewarriors from Ebay for 3 pounds!!!!! and then bought the Battleforce for 50 quid.

So ive got

Commander in Crisis Suit
2 x Firewarriors units
1 x Kroot squad
1 X Devilfish
3 x stealth suits.

Battleforce is the way forward, its just silly not starting off with one.

Fraf
20-09-2011, 21:14
What are they point of the pathfinder teams? are they just used for the marker lights, to make my shooting more accurate or do they have other purposes as well?The main purpose of pathfinders is indeed their markerlight and their ability to make other units in the army much much more efficient at shooting, mainly through BS boosting and cover denying. As a Tau, cover is your nemesis, and it's everywhere in 5th edition. However, since they are a support unit and don't do anything by themselves, they're better at higher points range, when there is actually a descent sized army to synergize with. I'd say they're an option to consider at 1000+ points and reach their full potential at 1500 and above. Under 1000 points, I wouldn't bother with them, except maybe with a small squad of 4-6 for a few test-games, so that you can learn how to handle them for later.


and also i dont hear much about the pirahna (SP) but in alot of tactics im ready theyre essential to cut enemy advance off, so do they have a place in a small point army or only when i have more points to spare?Same thing as the pathfinders, It's very versatile and fun to play, but in smaller games, it takes some points from the essential units. Personally, I consider the piranha option (with fusion blaster) above 1500 points. The more standard burst cannon piranha might have its uses at lower points games, but that's just a hunch, I haven't tested it myself, so take it with a grain of salt.
As for speedbump and tarpit units in small points games, start with kroots and the free gundrones you get from vehicles. Also, in such games, the low saturation of space on the table allows you to make full use of your mobility, so in some cases, you won't even need tarpits in the first place.


and lastly where are some of the best places online to look for the Tau batttlebox, because on the GW site i see its going for 110 and thats no fun! :( depends a lot on where you live. If you're within the UE, I know dark Sphere has a pretty good deal for the battleforce (http://www.darksphere.co.uk/pgcat.php?m=2&c3=&c2=&c1=112&c=14&sub=1). I'll let other people answer for their respective countries.


PS are kroot shapers are a waste of points to take in a kroot squad?definitely


And are kroot hounds a good choice to take also since they have melee?They're definitely a must have if you plan on using your kroots in a more active way than sacrificial speedbump (like outflanking support units). Their main drawback is the price of the models since you usually need a bunch of them, your wallet will cry.


And lastly are krootox riders a good choice i love the way the models look?I have no experience with these, but most feedback I heard on forgeworld models in regular games were about XV9s and Tetras, so I'll take a wild guess and say they're probably not fantastic if so few people praised them. Agree on the cool looking models though.

Deadnight
20-09-2011, 21:16
What are they point of the pathfinder teams? are they just used for the marker lights, to make my shooting more accurate or do they have other purposes as well? and also i dont hear much about the pirahna (SP) but in alot of tactics im ready theyre essential to cut enemy advance off, so do they have a place in a small point army or only when i have more points to spare?


Nope, pathfinders are there primarily to use markerlights. great idea, lousy implementation.

pirahnas are useful. i wouldnt take them as i despise the models, but take a squadron of 4, and you can detach a free 8-man drone team. they're also useful for blocking assault lanes, but at 750pts, its a stretch to field more than 1 or 2.



Also, im just starting out with a 500-750pt army so i was wondering with the battlebox included what choices i have and what the lay out will somewhat look like


you've got crisis 2 suits, a bunch of stealths (which i regard as overpriced underperforming, and horrible to look at on top of it), fire warriors, kroot, and 2 devilfish. its a decent start. add in some broadsides, and hammerheads, some more suits and you're properly off.



PS are kroot shapers are a waste of points to take in a kroot squad? And are kroot hounds a good choice to take also since they have melee? And lastly are krootox riders a good choice i love the way the models look?

i think shapers need to bring something more than they do currently. if you ask me, id rather spend the points of a shaper on 3 more kroot.
kroot hounds are great. i5. they're great for striking first, and then soaking up the retaliatory strike, so the slower kroot can then pitch it, and kill the rest. csnt tell you much on krootox riders though im afraid

Flogger23
20-09-2011, 21:38
It ought to be noted that Tau codex has been dropped in price: this is usually a sign that the Codex will be redone in near future. It seems almost certain that after Necrons, either Tau or Black Templars will be the next book.

This will also probably mean that some of the models will be redone, rumour is that Crisis Suits will get a new model. You may not want to invest too much on XV-8's if new and hopefully better looking model is on the way, but if you only plan to build a small army at first, this isn't a problem for you.

If you want to use an Ethereal, you need to build your list around him (same is true for Tau special characters). Ethereal works best on non-mechanized gunline, probably attached to Broadside unit with Drones, screened by infantry. People don't use Ethereal much because if he dies, your entire army can run off the board. However, if someone manages to kill your Broadside unit, then the game is probably lost anyway so his drawback isn't such a big deal if used in right role. Honour Guard isn't a great idea in small points games, because they aren't troops and can't hold objectives.

Aun'shi is IMO nicest Ethereal model and who knows, he might make a comeback in next book. Aun'va by contrast is the worst unit ever designed, and this includes games which aren't 40k.

Krootox riders are funny model, but unfortunately not too good. They are 35 points for essentially nerfed Autocannon. And the Kroot can't infiltrate with a big, loud, smelly monkey amongst their ranks.

Tau are very much match-up-driven army, perhaps more so than any other army. There are some rather common army builds against which Tau nearly always loses but OTOH, Tau can fare surprisingly well against some of the present top tier armies. With Tau, it is extremely important to focus fire: identify your biggest threat and shoot it until it is no more. Don't leave "harmless remnants". A lone Tactical Sergeant with Power Fist can destroy your precious Hammerhead or Broadside Team. Another very important concept is "gambit", to borrow a chess term. Don't be afraid to lose units, but always have a purpose for the loss. Your infantry exists primarily to screen & protect your more valuable units from being killed. It is always better to purposedfully sacrifice an unit, than let the opponent get a multi-assault. It's all for the Greater Good. If you're sloppy, a large mob of Ork Boyz can wipe out half your army in one assault turn.

Tau troops suck, one has to just accept it. This can be somewhat depressing for new players, as your most expensive infantry unit might get wiped out in assault without inflicting single wound to the enemy.

Fraf
20-09-2011, 21:41
krootox riders
derp, I think I misread you. I thought about forgeWorld's Gnarloc Riders instead of Krootoxes (I don't think there's such a thing as "krootox rider").

I've taken one krootox in a fluffy kroot-themed list that I haven't playtested yet, but generally, don't bother with them. They're expensive, prevent your kroots from infiltrating (they can still outflank though) and there's a better alternative for S7 Ap4 weaponry : the Missile pod on crisis suits.

FrozenLaughs
20-09-2011, 22:36
I can cram everything I need into a 1500 pt game, -1 open Heavy slot, and no piranhas. I've repeatedly read that 5th ed. is all about the transports, but I've found them to be situational for the Tau, at best. With the ability to lay fire down on almost any inch of the table, at almost any position, negates me having to haul ass around the board. Mine normally park in front of my Firewarriors when there's lack of better cover.

FrozenLaughs
20-09-2011, 22:40
I've taken one krootox in a fluffy kroot-themed list that I haven't playtested yet, but generally, don't bother with them. They're expensive, prevent your kroots from infiltrating (they can still outflank though) and there's a better alternative for S7 Ap4 weaponry : the Missile pod on crisis suits.

Better alternative yes, but not in a Troop slot? Not really. Nobody seems to ever use them, unless it's a Kroot mercenary theme.

Fraf
20-09-2011, 23:33
the fact that it's a troop choices doesn't really compensate for the drawbacks :
- unit can't infiltrate
- it's a single shot autocannon that can't move for 35 points (or even 105 points, since it requires at least a basic unit of 10 kroots and they can't do a thing if the krootox must stay stationary to shoot at max range)
- can't be twinlinked or boosted by markerlights or targetting array

FrozenLaughs
20-09-2011, 23:37
the fact that it's a troop choices doesn't really compensate for the drawbacks :
- unit can't infiltrate
- it's a single shot autocannon that can't move for 105 points (since it requires at least a basic unit of 10 kroots and they can't do a thing if the krootox must stay stationary to shoot at max range)

But the point of Kroot is to get them into cover and use their fieldcraft bonus (where available). I worded my thoughts wrong, I was imply that no, they aren't worth it despite adding that cannon into a Troop slot :D

Charistoph
21-09-2011, 06:02
the fact that it's a troop choices doesn't really compensate for the drawbacks :
- unit can't infiltrate
- it's a single shot autocannon that can't move for 35 points (or even 105 points, since it requires at least a basic unit of 10 kroots and they can't do a thing if the krootox must stay stationary to shoot at max range)
- can't be twinlinked or boosted by markerlights or targetting array

I would like to add that it's a Rapid-Fire Autocannon. But when you consider the fact that if a target is 12" away, and you're shooting at it, you're better off asking the question, "Why the @#%! am I not Charging them?"

If you're looking to make a Shooty Kroot unit, you've already maxed out your Carnivores, don't actively plan on Infiltrating (I don't know WHY you would), and you have points to spare, the Krootox makes for a good upgrade to a Carnivore squad. The gun isn't the only reason, either, it's Str 5, which can be a bonus no matter what you're attacking/being Assaulted by. Downside, besides above, is like the Shaper, a 3 Wound model that's T 3, meaning a Tau/Eldar Plasma Gun or IG Power Fist, or anything stronger can wipe all those wounds away in one hit. Like many things in the Tau codex, it COULD be good, but just misses the mark.

St Loke
23-09-2011, 18:56
Magnets are alpha omega for the tau. What ever you chose, buy yourself some drill bits and magnets, that'll save you a lot of money later on.

GodofWarTx
23-09-2011, 20:19
I am also a strong believer in getting two battle force boxes. You would have a very strong core for your army that would allow you to expand in any direction you wanted after that. Having 4 objective taking units would give you some serious staying power.

IcedAnimals
23-09-2011, 20:45
Im currently selling an already assembled and primed white 1000 point tau army for 150$. PM me if you want specifics, but it has the battle force and a forgeworld crisis suit.

I have to agree with the others that battle forces are great for tau.

otakuzoku
23-09-2011, 22:05
my first and only 40k army is tau and i had a steep learning curve. once you get the hang of them you will have a good game against any thing that is not space marine.

rail guns are your best friend and the best option is the broadside with shield droans and either the ASS or the targeting array to give you bs4. the only reason to take a hammerhead is the large blast option.

the second gun to have is the plasma rifle its ap2 so you can kill terminators and space marines when the broadsides are hunting other targets.

the next thing to have is a pathfinder squad. markerlights are your frend and take away those nasty coversaves.

the rest is up to you missile pods for range and power or burst cannon for troops.

2 things i can say to avoid are gun drone squads and vespid and sniper drones as they stand at the moment

IcedAnimals
24-09-2011, 01:55
I actually quite like the sniper teams. The only thing that makes them bad is they compete with Broadsides which are amazing.

Konovalev
29-09-2011, 16:22
In fact, I was more concerned about your hammerheads/skyrays having 3 nurst cannons :D

Personally, I just turn the nose cannon inward so that it is less noticeable. The only times there have been confusion is if railgun gets blown off.

Carlosophy
29-09-2011, 17:16
Remember taking 8 Firewarriors out of the 2nd Battleforce, giving them Carbines, no backpacks, no shoulder pads and a different paint scheme makes effective pathfinders and saves you money. You can then divide the Firewarriors into 2 teams of 8.