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asmodai_dark86
12-04-2006, 16:14
Evening all

Okay so whilst I was building my Ordo Xenos force, I began painting the terminator box set that I've had lying around in my bits box for months. Except for some reason I started to paint them gold. Anyway in an effort to justify this, and so that they actually have a reason for being gold, I've decided to start a Sons Of Sparta army.

To get some Spartan referances in, I've decided that the chapter would have a disproportionate number of veterans and terminators (300) to regular power armoured troopers, and a lack of heavy weapons and tanks. I have then decided that the Spartans work in a similar way to Space wolves in that new recruits aren't put into scout armour but straight into power armor and act as support units for the terminators.

I then thought how the non homoioi would just be lumped into large squads, kind of inviting the enemy to shoot at them meaning the weak would die soon whilst the truely strong should make it and become veterans.

I did however, still want to use scouts because I want to try the new models. So, I decided that once a marine had reached veteran status, he would then wear scout armor and fight alongside the terminators for a time. I imagine them acting like a phallanx on the field - the terminators smashing in whilst the scouts flank around or take care of flankers. I've also read that occasionally greek hoplites went into battle in the buff, and whilst a nude space marine would tickle me as my opponent recoiled in confusion, I dont think I could do an unarmored space marine justice (in terms of body! you filthy minded lot! :D ).

These regular terminators would be the true spartans - the homoioi (literally 'Best') - would be terminator squads. I have started a prototype armed with a power halabered with a built in bolter and the traditional round shield but this has thrown up a problem - what would you have them count as; standard or assault?

If the above has all made sense, then the army is as follows:

Captain Leonidas (come on, what else was his name going to be?)
- Terminator armour, power weapon, storm bolter
- I plan to use the red scorpions commander model for this, what do you lot recon?

Command Squad (terminator)
- Battle standard bearer
- Apothocary
- Assault cannon
- Company champion
- Normal Terminator

2 x Homoioi squads
- Veteran sergeant
- 4 Homoioi (halaberd and shield)
- 5 veterans in scout armor

Command section
- Chooser of the strong (chaplain)
- various other people associated with this position

Helot (would be scouts except in power armor) squad
- 15ish marines with boltguns

Venerable deadnought

I should have pictures of the first member of the terminator command squad by Monday as I'm currently having a holiday in Manchester (yes its possible, I love this place!).

The only tank I'd consider adding is a land raider, and that'd have to be a land raider in pre heresey style. I should also mention that I want lots of red robes, especially on the power armoured marines which I'm making use the dark angels veteran models (so if anyone has any there trying to off load get in touch through PM)

Anyway I'm off to plot and scheme, advice, help, all that jazz, much appreciated.

Bjoernes
12-04-2006, 19:49
Hi!

When it comes to the nudity, you could go for freehand naked adonnises on your banners (if you are going to have any).... I figure this will fit in exelently with your Spartan inspiration since Spartan warriors where known to prefer their bedtime gymnastics with other men and not females.... Though some homofobic or young people might find the such display of nudity a little offensive... I think having a army with naked men in the heraldery is a super idea, and would do it myself if I ever start a Spartan inspired army...

Greetings

asmodai_dark86
12-04-2006, 23:03
Oh there will be banners *grins at his standard bearer conversion*

I might try it on the Chooser of the strongs (Chaplains) retrinue with a subtably impressive corpse at the bodys feet. I'm thinking of doing something like that on the dreadnought now actually - kind of a depiciton of the pilot.

I'm not that good with free hand though so hmm. I guess I just need practice really. Besides those things are a way off yet.

See I dont think young people would find it that bothersome - sure they'd giggle but meh there young its cool.

As for the rest... then they should really never speak to me or face firey vengence (that kind of thing annoys me).

Evilhomer
13-04-2006, 10:26
Is this inspired by the UK Golden Demon winning Sons of Sparta squad a few years back? They looked very swish.

Sounds great so far, but why not have helots as scouts rather than regular marines?

asmodai_dark86
13-04-2006, 14:30
Kind of yes and kind of no (I've attatched the picture of said spartans for referance).

I had the idea that the Homoioi should be terminators because it was the only way to justify them being in the chapter - the Homoioi were in power armor then there couldnt be any terminator armor (after all, you cant get better then best..).

The reason for having regular marines as Helots (which weren't even considered true spartans so might do a bit more research yet) is that I wanted to do mix armor squads.

In the old Spartan phallanx, the troopers at the front would be the most experienced whilst those at the back would be the least and so learn from there betters. With powered armoured marines, this could be unbalancing. If the squad mixed with terminator and scout armor got hit by an ordanance weapon, chances are the scout armored would come off worse - that way any who did survive the promotion to veteran status would then have to survive the intense fights that terminators get themselves into and prove themselves worthy to wear the armor.

I mean, I wanted to try and give the impression that the grey knights give off - that each terminator is a hero of the imperium. For that reason, you have to prove yourself beyond normal means before your allowed to wear it.

The reason for having the helots - those at scout level - in power armor, is that I really liked the way it worked in space wolves armies and again I wanted to fudge the codex a bit and have them in large squads to make the prime targets for ordanace. That way, again, whoever survive would likely become elite.

Its a bit like natural selection... except the natural bit is kinda influenced by carnifexes and other friendly creatures.

I really liked the spears on the games day spartans, and I like the way he's represented spartans, but now that the plastics have come on par with the power armoured marine plastic, it leaves the option to do something like what I'm planning.

noneedforaname
13-04-2006, 19:44
check your spartan rank system its not as simple as you make out,if i remember right the first three ranks where the elites, then there was the eldest of the "youth" for a couple of ranks, then more mature fighters to steady the ranks and the youngest at the back to push, this enable those ready to become full soldiers got some experience fighting without getting to much in the way and the newbies got the sound and smell of battle to lessen the suprise but in no real danger, the best did the killing and the rest of the "full troops" held the youngsters sound in the formation. i know this is vaguely right but not exact, there is a pretty good description of it in "gates of fire" though i cant rember the author its a good blend of fiction and historical "fact" about the battle of thermopylae.

asmodai_dark86
13-04-2006, 22:38
I think you might be right actually - I've not read my Spartan research in awhile but to summarise your saying

perfect fighting age - eldest of the young - oldest fighters - young

(as a side note to this, I know Helots were the slave class, I just haven't thought of a better name for new recruits as the spartans rank and file were homoioi - perhaps use the varient name spartitate..)



Okay I've been digging around a bit, but I can't find any decent pictures. I was thinking of using Scibors molding method to make the banner, and us one of the attatched pictures as a template.

Basicaly if you can find any decent half naked men in pots, preferably helmed and/or with some sort of stabbing device, then I'll give it a go.

Ideally it has to be a line drawing, perferably black and white so it can go onto OHP paper although meh I could probably get around it if it wasn't.

I know its probably easier just to perfect my artistic skills, but this will allow me to do more intricate designs on my homoioi if it works out and if it doesnt... then it#ll have been a fun experiment

asmodai_dark86
22-04-2006, 16:05
Hello!

Expect pictures of the first completed Spartan (wit assault cannon but stil very cool) On monday

Sorry I'm in a rush, more info and all that when I get back

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
22-04-2006, 18:36
Gates of Fire was written by Steven Pressfield (I'm currently reading his novel "Tides of War"). Very good book, and a must read if you're going through with this army. He researched the Spartan way of war extensively, and the way he describes it in the book is the way it was done.

Its historical fact, but the characters that he includes (and the dialogue) are fiction.