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Harwammer
20-09-2011, 20:00
A question regarding Lore of the Wild Area of Effect (AoE) spells.

"Wizards cannot target spells at units engaged in close combat" BRB pg 31

"Bestial Surge
All friendly units within 6"

"Devolve
All enemy units within 12"

"Traitor-Kin
All enemy models within 12" WA:Beastmen pg 33

All of these spells target all models of 'X' allegiance within a certain range. Does this mean if any models aligned to X are both within range and engaged in close combat the spell can't be cast as it would go against the BRB targeting rules?

Is there any argument for the spell being able to be cast but it ignores units that are in combat? I guess not as that would go against the word 'all'.

Side question (more tactical): Mantle of Ghorok can't be cast into combat either, right? This means you generally should only cast it when expecting to receive a charge in the next player's turn?

Agoz
20-09-2011, 20:12
According to the faq devolve effects units in combat, Augments and hexes can both be cast into close combat.

Harwammer
20-09-2011, 20:40
Thanks! I should have checked more thoroughly. I'm still totally confused though!

Have you any idea on what principle Devolve works against enemy units in combat? Would the same principle apply to Traitorkin? If not, can you cast Traitorkin but just skip over any enemy units that are in combat?

Likewise, if Devolve can be cast, even if it targets units in combat,can bestial surge be used to move friendly units even if there are other friendly units within 6" engaged in combat?

Agoz
20-09-2011, 21:02
yeah, it will affect any units that can move, just not the ones in close combat.

Harwammer
20-09-2011, 21:13
So these spelks can work even if there are engaged units in range? Isn't that contradictory to BRB page 31? Do pre-8th books just completely ignore the targeting rules (front arc, not engaged, etc)?

The devolve FAQ answer and your second response seems to indicate so :s

Yrrdead
20-09-2011, 23:59
Take a look at the Black Horror thread for more responses on the same subject.

Harwammer
21-09-2011, 06:46
Ah, that helps. Thanks Yrrdead.

After reading that thread and seeing the Devolve FAQ I'm now convinced the phrase "spells that are printed in older Warhammer Armies books do not have a type - their text will contain any casting restrictions that apply" counts as an 'unless stated otherwise for "Targetting restrictions vary from spell to spell. However, unless stated otherwise the following rules apply".

It's the only way the Devolve FAQ can makes sense to me (unless anyone can argue otherwise) and it means spells such as Mantel of Ghorok / Invocation of Nehek make a lot more sense. Note, for old spells with the magic missile, I'd follow the targeting/magic missile rules in the BRB.