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warmong3r
21-09-2011, 01:49
What army book is Games-Workshop looking to update next? If you don't know then don't spam junk. It doesn't have to be 100% true but i want to know if anything has been leaked or if you all have a general idea. Thanks a bunch :)

KomradeKorlash
21-09-2011, 04:22
Things that should be considered (based on the age of the army books)

*Bretonnia
*Wood Elves
*Dwarves

I could have sworn I read a thread some while ago about an update that'll be in January that would involve one of the three above. Don't hold me to it though.

Yrrdead
21-09-2011, 04:26
Commonly expected; Bretts, Dwarfs,WE . I have seen nothing more concrete regarding what's next other than expectations. If it wasn't any of these I wouldn't necessarily be surprised.

Dark Horse ; Vamps.


Bretts,Dwarfs,WE mainly due to age of the books. Harry ,among others, has mentioned multiple times that this is no longer a good guideline. There have been a few , friends of friends type rumors about all 3 of these. Models seen, in the works, etc.


<Speculation>Recent VC splash release with no release of Magic Cards. Pretty confirmed (Harry & Hastings) rumors of Flesh Golems Monstrous Infantry not included in that splash. These things point to Flesh Golems being in the New book which is coming out soon with new lore and new cards which is why they didn't put out cards in August.</Speculation>

crartist24
21-09-2011, 06:27
Im pretty sure its bretonia we then dwarfs but i truly think we needs it more.

Yrrdead
21-09-2011, 06:29
I'm willing to bet at least 1 internet cookie that it isn't Bretts or WE.

I know , I know, ballsy.

Leiv
21-09-2011, 06:49
God I hope wood elves get a new one soon that restores their ability to move and skirt the new wave of giant endless blocks of infantry. I so miss how they played in 7th edition being able to bait, counter charge, lure, shoot, and overall make the enemy play on their terms sigh.

Bretts will probably get theirs first though as they need new models almost as badly as high elves, while the Wood elf models remain beautiful

NitrosOkay
21-09-2011, 07:28
A Vampire Counts army book?

Is that anything like the "Ghoul Kings" army book we have now?

MrCarbohydrate
21-09-2011, 07:34
High Elves, then Vampire Counts. I base this on nothing other than gut instinct.

m1acca1551
21-09-2011, 07:51
GW will either;
A) re-do WE or Brettonians as they are in the most dire need of a new book or
B) re-do VC as there is a lot of people calling for a new book as the current one is bad (more people than WE/Brett imo) VC can be re-done with a white dwarf errata. As a VC player, i'd love to see them re-done, but not at the expense of other armies in more need.

I'd like to see the following;
1) Wood elves
2) Brettonians
3) Dwarfs (purely for the age of the book) and new mini's
and then VC can be done fairly

HE just need an errata saying that book of hoeth cant be taken anymore :D *jokes

ftayl5
21-09-2011, 09:16
What I'd like to see:
Bretonnians and Woodies need it most followed by Dwarfs.

What is more likely to happen:
There is serious credibility to the Vampire Count rumours.
Wood Elves are probably quite far away because they have a lot of work to be done for a fairly small fan base. If I was on the team trying to make that army good without making it too much like the other armies and no longer "wood elves", I simply wouldn't know where to start.

Bretonnians, from what I've heard, are soon. I don't know about 'next' but soon.
Dwarfs I have heard no actual information of, just "I wish..." and "I hope..."

warmong3r
21-09-2011, 12:30
Thanks a lot guys. I'd be excited for a Wood Elves book. I'd start collecting them then :D

SunTzu
21-09-2011, 12:49
It would make most sense to be WE or Brets but I'm not actually holding my breath for that. They've just done TK and OK and I can't see them doing all the oldest army books in a row, it sets a precedent that they might get criticised for, when they eventually break.

My guess: Warriors of Chaos. It's not the oldest book but it's getting on a bit now. I think they'll throw that in as a curveball.

Sorry, this is just speculation. I think if anyone knew for sure it would be in rumours and news by now.

Spiney Norman
21-09-2011, 12:59
Things that should be considered (based on the age of the army books)

*Bretonnia
*Wood Elves
*Dwarves

I could have sworn I read a thread some while ago about an update that'll be in January that would involve one of the three above. Don't hold me to it though.

I seem to remember some rumblings about dwarfs, but there haven't been any rumours for wood elves yet, just wishing based on their currently crippled state.

Bretonnians again are just wishful thinking AFAIK, although given how long it took Wood elves to get their 6th Edition book I doubt they'll get anything soon unless they have somehow gained some favour.


I'm willing to bet at least 1 internet cookie that it isn't Bretts or WE.

I know , I know, ballsy.

I agree, releases are never based on need, they're based on sales potential, my money is on dwarfs.


A Vampire Counts army book?

Is that anything like the "Ghoul Kings" army book we have now?

Hmmm, maybe, but I doubt it, why release a shiny plastic new monster and plastic characters and then kick out a new army book a few months later? Thats not normally how they do things, given that VC got a wave release recently I'd expect it to be a while before they get a new book, otherwise why not just save the wave up for a few months and release the lot together?

arthurfallz
21-09-2011, 13:07
I know the Wood Elves and Brets need one desperately, the Wood Elves more than the Brets really, but *cough* I would prefer the Brets first *cough*.

bernh
21-09-2011, 13:36
I heard that initial plan was WE and then Brets. But then GW marketing department pushed dwarfs in line. Next army - one of these three.

Voss
21-09-2011, 13:52
Hmmm, maybe, but I doubt it, why release a shiny plastic new monster and plastic characters and then kick out a new army book a few months later? Thats not normally how they do things, given that VC got a wave release recently I'd expect it to be a while before they get a new book, otherwise why not just save the wave up for a few months and release the lot together?

Plastic budget/ practical production limits, perhaps? O&G did get a plastic wave within a year of their 8th ed. army book.


I agree most of this thread is based on wishes rather than anything substantial, however.

The only reasonable suggestion is that it won't be O&G, TK or OK. Probably not beasts, either.

TheMadMarquis
21-09-2011, 13:53
Basically, then... no-one has any idea. There's universal agreement that it should be Brets or Wood Elves based on need, and it seems that VC, Dwarves and (in my opinion) Empire would please the GW bean-counters.

I know this seems like a strange way to look at it, but we have now had four (more?) "Evil" army books in a row. Maybe the sculptors might be hankering for a force which only has skulls on every second model?

(Not really, of course. We all know WHFB was originally created when Rick Priestley ordered the production of fourteen million tiny plastic skulls after a wild night out in September 1978, looked at them with horrified eyes as the lorry pulled up a few days later, and muttered "now how the hell am I going to make the money back on these?")

Elfboy
21-09-2011, 15:37
(Not really, of course. We all know WHFB was originally created when Rick Priestley ordered the production of fourteen million tiny plastic skulls after a wild night out in September 1978, looked at them with horrified eyes as the lorry pulled up a few days later, and muttered "now how the hell am I going to make the money back on these?")

Love it :)

Lester
21-09-2011, 15:57
Realms of Chaos








I wish...

Garion
21-09-2011, 15:58
Vampire counts or Wood Elves, they both need it big time, and GW actually seem to be listening to the unwashed masses at the moment.

P.S. Wood Elves really need some new treekin and treemen, I really hate those models.

Lester
21-09-2011, 16:04
Vampire counts or Wood Elves, they both need it big time, and GW actually seem to be listening to the unwashed masses at the moment.

P.S. Wood Elves really need some new treekin and treemen, I really hate those models.
Brets need it more than VC.
I don't get why people say VC are in dire need. They have better builds than a few armies, like Brets, Beastmen, and obviously Woodelves.

Garion
21-09-2011, 18:52
i've never played Brets before ever in any edition, and I go back to 2nd or 3rd (which was the one with the wizard on the front of the rule book in purple that looks like he has a sort of dog face?)

So excuse my ignorance there :) I will take your word for it though ;)

Balerion
21-09-2011, 19:17
Brets need it more than VC.
I don't get why people say VC are in dire need. They have better builds than a few armies, like Brets, Beastmen, and obviously Woodelves.
I agree. The only argument I can see for VC is that they have a combination of "needing the update" and being a popular, big-selling army that most of the other candidates don't have.

WE: need the update, not a big seller
Brets: need the update, not a big seller
Dwarfs: don't really need the update, big seller
VC: need the update, big seller

Empire shares those qualities, FWIW.

giant stegadon
21-09-2011, 19:37
I think the most realistic options are either: VC b/c of the splash release & that this was similar to how they updated Orcs.

Or Empire or, more likely, Dwarves. These are popular armies, good guys, and the Dwarves have a ton of metal models still. Important to my theory is updating Dwarves/Empire would provide a lot of first fiscal quarter sales to report. Additionally, to throw the meta game in complete chaos is that Dwarves have the potential to wreck magic phases- thus making everyone retool the lists & hopefully buy more.

NitrosOkay
21-09-2011, 22:06
"I don't get why people say VC are in dire need. "

It's the internal balance of the book that people complain about, not the external balance.

Lester
21-09-2011, 22:13
"I don't get why people say VC are in dire need. "

It's the internal balance of the book that people complain about, not the external balance.
Wood Elves (only good choices are GG and Forest Spirits) and Bretonnians (only 10 Army Choices, 4 of which overlap way too much) are in bigger internal balance issues.

Lantern
21-09-2011, 22:26
As far as I understand it, it's the model range and not the rules or army book age that dictates the book order. In this case, it's the Dwarfs who need the most model work in terms of moving from metal to plastic choices.
The Bretonnians , in my opinion, need very little work, as I personally already find them very competitive. The Wood Elves however, need quite a bit of work, rules wise, to make them competitive in an environment where they can suffer casualties simply stepping into a forest and where a skirmishing, guerilla warfare style army has little to no punch against the modern "horde" style , bigger is better list from 8th edition.

Balerion
22-09-2011, 00:32
As far as I understand it, it's the model range and not the rules or army book age that dictates the book order. In this case, it's the Dwarfs who need the most model work in terms of moving from metal to plastic choices.

People keep saying this as though it's a rock solid fact, but I think there's a good argument to be made that the WE range needs just as much work, and could support a multitude of new plastic kits.

Eternal Guard, Treekin, and Treemen should all be default plastics. Wild Riders are a decent candidate. A dual race plastic Great Eagle would sell in immense amounts. And then whatever new unit(s) GW sees fit to include.

Voss
22-09-2011, 00:41
As far as I understand it, it's the model range and not the rules or army book age that dictates the book order. In this case, it's the Dwarfs who need the most model work in terms of moving from metal to plastic choices.

It can't be either, in point of fact. If it was model range, as you use for the basis for the dwarf army book, they would have been done 4+ books ago. If it was age or need, O&G probably wouldn't have been the first of the 8th ed books.

In short, none of these factors determine book order. From what designers have said from time to time, they get inspired by an army and work on that. From a financial perspective, priority goes to what will give the most return. In practice, I suspect its a combination of those two things.

AmaroK
22-09-2011, 01:08
Brets need it more than VC.
I don't get why people say VC are in dire need. They have better builds than a few armies, like Brets, Beastmen, and obviously Woodelves.

I donīt get why people rank beastmen so low when they have pretty powerful builds. Their main drawback are their rare section, their own magical lore and lack of internal balance if you want to go for powerbuilds. But overall they are in the line of the new 8th army books and certainly in the main middle group at least. But who knows, maybe those drawbacks above added to many model missing in their range are reason enough for an update ;)

Texhnolyze
22-09-2011, 01:21
People keep saying this as though it's a rock solid fact, but I think there's a good argument to be made that the WE range needs just as much work, and could support a multitude of new plastic kits.

Eternal Guard, Treekin, and Treemen should all be default plastics. Wild Riders are a decent candidate. A dual race plastic Great Eagle would sell in immense amounts. And then whatever new unit(s) GW sees fit to include.

Well if we are going by model range, then Dwarves have alot of metal units

Slayers
Ironbreakers
Long Beards
Hammerers

Then we got Dark elves(!), who also got TONS of metal units, but they are not weak. Well I wouldn't really call dwarves weak either.

Witch elves
Executioners
Black Guard
Dark Riders
Shades

Then we got wood elves

Ethernal Guard
Treekin
Wild Riders
Waywatchers

Based on metal models, its Dwarves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, who need the next release.
But based on Army books it's Wood elves, Dwarves, "some other books" , Dark Elves

Veshnakar
22-09-2011, 01:32
I honestly think that the dark elf book being as "good" as it is warrants it being redone just as much as it's models.

I am a long time dark elf fan going on 15 years now, and with the advent of the 7th/8th edition book I have all but dropped the army altogether from the cries of cheese and of them being overpowered.

I think redoing their metals in plastic would be a great chance to bring the book in line with TK, O&G, and Ogres balance wise.

This may be a bit biased but it is my highest wish. Dark Elves are my pride and joy with my only other army being Chaos Dwarfs (and we know how GW feel about them) and I would love to be able to play them again without the default concensus of my winning a game being based on how "overpowered" my army is. Even if I never field a cauldron, POK lord, shadow sac dagger level 4, or war hydra.

It's just such a huge killjoy to go from an army that was known as a finesse/specialists army, to one that is widely accepted as requiring little to no skill whatsoever.

So that's my hope.

m1acca1551
22-09-2011, 02:25
VC dont need a new book a simple WD errata..

If GW went and did WE/Brets i'd be happy for them, if the re-did dwarfs with new mini's i'd buy a whole Fricking army of them... GW will go the cost profit route i think

Fajita!
22-09-2011, 02:41
As far as I understand it, it's the model range and not the rules or army book age that dictates the book order. In this case, it's the Dwarfs who need the most model work in terms of moving from metal to plastic choices.
The Bretonnians , in my opinion, need very little work, as I personally already find them very competitive. The Wood Elves however, need quite a bit of work, rules wise, to make them competitive in an environment where they can suffer casualties simply stepping into a forest and where a skirmishing, guerilla warfare style army has little to no punch against the modern "horde" style , bigger is better list from 8th edition.

Exactly.

Dwarves need an updated model range, and they're also one of the more popular armies. I bet they're next.



I donīt get why people rank beastmen so low when they have pretty powerful builds. Their main drawback are their rare section, their own magical lore and lack of internal balance if you want to go for powerbuilds. But overall they are in the line of the new 8th army books and certainly in the main middle group at least. But who knows, maybe those drawbacks above added to many model missing in their range are reason enough for an update ;)

I agree. My beastmen preform much better than my Tomb Kings, for example. I think the new Tomb Kings book is actually relatively under powered.

TsukeFox
22-09-2011, 02:44
I'm willing to bet at least 1 internet cookie that it isn't Bretts or WE.

I know , I know, ballsy.

It is going to be Skaven-! Bwhahaha

that way skaven can finaly get lore attributes

Hragnar Goreskull
22-09-2011, 03:14
I think to guess what is next we would have to look at GW's evidence of recent releases.

On the one side the older armies (WE,Brets,Dw) would be a logical choice to be redone with stale miniatures and combat systems. There is so much room for new life to be breathed into these ranges, but we know how GW operates at times, so holding our breath is common occurrence.

The other side of the coin would be armies that just sell alot more, and if any evidence can be gleaned from recent splash wave releases, it would point to majority of what has been recent (DE,WoC,VC,DoC). All these armies have gotten new sculpts in plastic and big kits also. These armies don't need much in the way of help, but have some holes that could be filled and I would not be surprised if any one of these came out before the older books.

With the two broken army books out of the way (TK,OK) I would not be suprised to see a money grab army getting redone, IMO, which I do hope is wrong. I hope that the recent waves have been released to just hold over some armies so that the older ones can be properly overhauled complete. :skull:

Liber
22-09-2011, 07:28
Dwarfs: don't really need the update, big seller


no, i really disagree with this.

the dwarf armybook is the most static one currently available.

every single 'special' infantry type besides miners are still in mono-pose metal.

hammerers
longbeards
slayers
ironbreakers

all old metal models.

we have a single viable rare choice. the other (gyro) is pretty broken and the last (flame cannon) is completely broken.

we have 3 special character choices. our runes are essentially a more expensive version of the common magic items that all armies (except dwarfs of course) have access too.

currently GW would like us to use (and we often have too) the same models for

thunderers, quarrelers, warriors, and longbeards.

yup, essentially the same model dwarf makes up 80% of the army.

we don't have any fun character upgrades (gifts of chaos, engineering skaven items etc) or "big bad" monster / machine kits.

every reason that could be made for VC needing an update could be made for dwarfs, and then you could add a whole lot more.


lastly, everyone conveniently seems to forget that VC have had a whopping 4(i think) shiny new kits released for them just over the past few months so...i don't see them standing on the same ground as WE, Bretts or Dwarfs by a long shot.


EDIT: i thought i should add, that i am currently stopping work on a dwarf army pre-maturely (1850 pts) and then starting dark elves as something fun to work on until GW updates the dwarf army, hopefully in 2012 and then i will complete a 2500 pt force :)

Anardakil
22-09-2011, 07:40
Well if we are going by model range, then Dwarves have alot of metal units

Slayers
Ironbreakers
Long Beards
Hammerers

Then we got Dark elves(!), who also got TONS of metal units, but they are not weak. Well I wouldn't really call dwarves weak either.

Witch elves
Executioners
Black Guard
Dark Riders
Shades

Then we got wood elves

Ethernal Guard
Treekin
Wild Riders
Waywatchers

Based on metal models, its Dwarves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, who need the next release.
But based on Army books it's Wood elves, Dwarves, "some other books" , Dark Elves

You forgot Wardancers. Tree kin are now finecast though.

Sexiest_hero
22-09-2011, 07:50
As seen in the 40k world, It's not Need that gets the book it's numbers. Every other book has been a space marine book regardless of age. Fantasy seems to be big core army/ smaller fan base. That said They seem to be tageting armies with funky ways of using mages, TK and Ogres. I'll bet the next army book is it is a small fan base, won't get uupdated core. But then I see them ReVAMPing VC (hur hur hur), and making one skeleton set to fit both armies, since TK didn't get an updated core. My guess is VC or dwarves first. followed by a Toning down of one of the power armies, DE, WoC, or Lizard men. Bretts and WE may become the new Dark eldar. WE may be the new Chaos dwarves even. I hope not though.

Balerion
22-09-2011, 08:43
and making one skeleton set to fit both armies, since TK didn't get an updated core
There is no way this happens. Not a chance. None.

In fact, it kind of sounds like something a deranged TK fan might be caught mumbling to himself for consolation in the corner of his dusty, neglected pyramid, completely divorced from reality. ;)

The current VC skeletons are,

1. Beautiful
2. Versatile
3. Suitably VC-themed
4. Still wafting that "new kit" smell

Why would GW retire a gorgeous kit that has only been on the shelves for a few years, in favour of a generic Skeleton kit that drains all of the army-specific flavour away?

Doommasters
22-09-2011, 10:17
There is no way this happens. Not a chance. None.

In fact, it kind of sounds like something a deranged TK fan might be caught mumbling to himself for consolation in the corner of his dusty, neglected pyramid, completely divorced from reality. ;)

The current VC skeletons are,

1. Beautiful
2. Versatile
3. Suitably VC-themed
4. Still wafting that "new kit" smell

Why would GW retire a gorgeous kit that has only been on the shelves for a few years, in favour of a generic Skeleton kit that drains all of the army-specific flavour away?


Because mantic ones are better

Charistoph
22-09-2011, 16:24
Models are only a good reason for a new army book when they have sufficient new sprues for the army AND totally new sprues they want to include. They have definitely shown their willingness to launch redone sprues off the army book schedule when it is just 2-4 kits being redone.

So unless they have completely brand new Dwarf models being made, don't hold your breath.

forgottenlor
24-09-2011, 21:31
There seem to be some reasons books get redone. 2 of the biggest ones seem to be: Its a popular army, with lots of people collecting the models (Just see how often Empire and Orc-Gobbos have been redone) OR the army no longer functions well with the rules (In my mind the reason Ogres and Tomb Kings were redone. Their magic was simply not balanced in the 8th)

Both of these reasons make Vampires a good tip. The 2nd reason applies to Brettonians and Wood Elves. The first for Dwarves and Warriors.

Sly Rax
24-09-2011, 21:52
GW have just done two books with smallish fan bases (OK & TK), I see then doing one of the big boys next. Probably Dwarfs.

Charistoph
24-09-2011, 22:44
Heh, remember, Vampires had a "smallish" fan base before their last army book came out, Skaven and Dark Elves, too. Their most recent army books completely changed that, with incredibly powerful options that convinced a lot of people who felt they had to win to build their armies, and thus became not so smallish.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen with Ogres now, especially since they can be used as "Grey Knights" (i.e. few points-expensive models on the field with minimal dollar input) to bring people into the game.

Chain
24-09-2011, 23:34
I'd really like a New Wood Elves book, but rather wait a year and hopefully get more magic items/kindred/sprites than have it to soon and disappointing.


One of the greatest joys of the games is kitting out your characters for every game imo. That's one of the reasons I find the few magic items in the 8'th ed army books to be plain wrong...
MAgic items is one of the things that can bring surprises in the game other than lucky/unlucky dice rolls

To have the selections diminished... bad idea


A New Bretonia Book I'd expect to see

I'm a bit afraid for Dwarfs and Empire redone losing a fair deal of their magic protections if they're going to be anything like the other books...

nurgle5
25-09-2011, 01:20
One of the greatest joys of the games is kitting out your characters for every game imo. That's one of the reasons I find the few magic items in the 8'th ed army books to be plain wrong...


Why would the design team give itself so much extra work when it's unnecessary? There is no way they could maintain the 400+ items in the game without overlap and still have them balanced. Does having a different name attached to the same buff really mean that much to you? Anyone who moans about the lack of uniquely named magic items has clearly never had to work to a deadline.



A New Bretonia Book I'd expect to see

I'm looking forward to this immensely. Though I hear Mat Ward is writing it, so I'm fully expecting "Grayl Knights" and for him to go off the ball and just plain refer to Bretonnia as "Ultramar" for twenty pages :p. Either that or it'll turn out the Green Knight is the Roboute Guilliman's patronus or some rubbish :shifty:.

Gabacho Mk.II
25-09-2011, 01:31
I agree. The only argument I can see for VC is that they have a combination of "needing the update" and being a popular, big-selling army that most of the other candidates don't have.

WE: need the update, not a big seller
Brets: need the update, not a big seller
Dwarfs: don't really need the update, big seller
VC: need the update, big seller

Empire shares those qualities, FWIW.


Going by the above I would have to strongly state that High Elves would sincerely fit into the "need the update, big seller" camp.










Oh, and DOGS of WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [give me pikes!!!] :D

Lester
25-09-2011, 04:47
Going by the above I would have to strongly state that High Elves would sincerely fit into the "need the update, big seller" camp.










Oh, and DOGS of WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [give me pikes!!!] :D
So do Dark Elves and Daemons (to nerf them via update need) by using that logic. ;)

Balerion
25-09-2011, 05:22
Going by the above I would have to strongly state that High Elves would sincerely fit into the "need the update, big seller" camp.

Only if you're considering the need from a rules standpoint.

Personally, my definition of "needing an update" was the cumulative need for new rules and new models. HE may need a new book, but they are one of the most complete model ranges in the game.

Oseru
25-09-2011, 05:50
One of the greatest joys of the games is kitting out your characters for every game imo. That's one of the reasons I find the few magic items in the 8'th ed army books to be plain wrong...
MAgic items is one of the things that can bring surprises in the game other than lucky/unlucky dice rolls

To have the selections diminished... bad idea


Players are the ones who drove this movement by persistently picking 'Auto-include' items. So its really not a bad idea from a design stand point.

And anyways, games are more balanced when you have troops doing the fighting.

Sexiest_hero
25-09-2011, 07:49
Oddly enough I like the Tomb kings skeletons the best, ad was in no way sad when they didn't get redone. I see them making one kit simply on some ill thought out money saving scheme that backfires. My call still stands as VC next.

Ludaman
25-09-2011, 08:12
VC followed by dwarfs. Going purely on Hastings/Harry hints, and they've never led me astray thus far.

Chain
25-09-2011, 13:31
Why would the design team give itself so much extra work when it's unnecessary? There is no way they could maintain the 400+ items in the game without overlap and still have them balanced. Does having a different name attached to the same buff really mean that much to you? Anyone who moans about the lack of uniquely named magic items has clearly never had to work to a deadline.



It's one of the things that's always defined Warhammer to me... I completely dropped buying warhammer and keeping up with the editions after seeing what 6'th ed was going to be like(to me back then they made everything way to similar)

a 10 year break and a return in 7'th ed had me quite liking the army I decided for my return. A few months later it gained a 7'th ed book with a lot of magic items that pretty much all had potential uses...
Yes that was the way I wanted all armies to be, have a fair selection with no outright bad units and a rather good army stability etc.

Why the hell go from kidding out you character with 3-4 lesser magic items to 2-1 if not 0...

Army stability is great, but they should simply spend more time thinking about who can get which items rather than make it impossible(especially now where Magic and warmachines in general have gained redicilous boosts) :eyebrows:

I don't want to feel making armylists being a shore, nor do I wish to play the same army list in every game, nor do I like being restricted to a handful of magic items.

Limiting the game isn't the way to go(much rather have a one use only magic item surprise my opponent than have a lucky irrisistible force completely ruin the game experience) :(

Andy p
25-09-2011, 14:20
I dont necessarily think Bretonnians are next, not least because there is no proof or rumours to support it, but I have noticed they have been appearing a lot in the new books.

In terms of pictures I mean. Front of the O&G one and in quite a few of the Ogre pics a bret of some kind is being mauled: Brets severed head being held by ogre just inside the cover, sabretooths munching on a MAA in the bestiary and of course the stonehorn sending a knight sailing.

I cant remember if they appear in the TK's book. However I will admit this is a poor precedent to go on.

Tae
25-09-2011, 14:54
My money, for what it's worth, is on Dwarfs being next.

Along with WE and Brets they have the oldest book (though arguably theirs still works better than either of these two), however their model range is absolutely in much more need. All their elite models are crappy metal sculpts, whereas Brets and WE have only a few metal sculpts and most of these are actually okay (though some definately aren't - I'm looking at you Treeman/Treekin!)

Though it really wouldn't surprise me if GW decided to milk the VC cow some more.

Necromancer2
25-09-2011, 16:58
I think VC then Dwarfs next year.

Then Brets, WOC and Empire.

We won't see WE for 3 years + ;)

Harry
25-09-2011, 18:01
VC followed by dwarfs. Going purely on Hastings/Harry hints, and they've never led me astray thus far.

You have misread the tips this time. :shifty: :D



I said : I had VC, Empire and Dwarves in the frame.

eastern barbarian
25-09-2011, 18:04
I heard similar rumours as well ;)

nurgle5
25-09-2011, 18:20
a 10 year break and a return in 7'th ed had me quite liking the army I decided for my return. A few months later it gained a 7'th ed book with a lot of magic items that pretty much all had potential uses...
Problem being that most people only used two or three from the AB on a regular basis. At any rate, many of these magic items overlapped with others.


I don't want to feel making armylists being a shore, nor do I wish to play the same army list in every game, nor do I like being restricted to a handful of magic items.

You actually have access to more magic items now than before. Rather than having circa 10 common magic items and 30 in your AB, now you have 60 common magic items and 8-10 in the AB. You have nearly double the options, hardly a handful


Limiting the game isn't the way to go(much rather have a one use only magic item surprise my opponent than have a lucky irrisistible force completely ruin the game experience) :(

There is no "magic item" phase in the game and they should not have the same impact on the game as actual magic. They are not a core mechanic but a garnish and buff system. If ambushing your opponent with a magic item he's probably never heard of is the most joy you get from this game you should really reconsider why you're playing a wargame.



My money, for what it's worth, is on Dwarfs being next.

Along with WE and Brets they have the oldest book (though arguably theirs still works better than either of these two), however their model range is absolutely in much more need. All their elite models are crappy metal sculpts, whereas Brets and WE have only a few metal sculpts and most of these are actually okay (though some definately aren't - I'm looking at you Treeman/Treekin!)

Though it really wouldn't surprise me if GW decided to milk the VC cow some more.

I would expect dwarfs to be done quite soon too, mostly on account of their model range, as the rules seem to be holding up quite well in 8th. Brets definitely need some love in the miniature department. Questing Knights, Grail Knights, Knights of the Realm and Knights Errant all look way too similar for my liking. I'm not overtly fussed in what order they're done, but I'd like to see all the 6th ed armies updated soon.

Of course, I expect Empire to muscle it's way in somewhere soon, tbh, I'd be quite annoyed if VC got another update while the Woodies go rotting :o.

Charistoph
25-09-2011, 20:38
Would it be stupid to mention that VC just got an update?

True, it wasn't as not as extensive as an army book, or even what the Sisters of Battle got, but more than Bretonnians, Dwarfs, and Woodies have gotten in 2 Editions (besides the obligatory 8th Edition FAQ).

Harry
25-09-2011, 20:41
I know common sense dictates Woodies and Brets.
But this is GW :D

I am sticking with VC, Empire, Dwarves

Charistoph
25-09-2011, 20:57
I know common sense dictates Woodies and Brets.
But this is GW :D

Heh, so VERY true. They really do need to release one of their core armies next.


I am sticking with VC, Empire, Dwarves

What? Who are these "Dwarves"? What does a Dwarv look like? What are they doing in the Old World now?

Just kidding, they make such a big deal of their odd spelling of it, I just couldn't resist.

nurgle5
25-09-2011, 21:06
I know common sense dictates Woodies and Brets.
But this is GW :D

I am sticking with VC, Empire, Dwarves

I hope GW remembers that hell hath no fury like a damsel scorned!

If this is accurate, then WE and Brets have about another year of sitting on the sidelines. This is very, very, very disappointing. It's not like we've been waiting for the better part of a decade for an update :cries:.

herbtarkel
25-09-2011, 21:22
I know common sense dictates Woodies and Brets.
But this is GW :D

I am sticking with VC, Empire, Dwarves

Very interesting. I have 2 of the 3, so it would appear to be a good year for me. :D

Looking forward especially to the VC. Although, even though I believe you, it does seem like GW at its wackiest to re-do such a fresh army. Strange.

Sexiest_hero
25-09-2011, 22:19
Orcs and gobbos, I felt got a very quick update. So who knows.

herbtarkel
25-09-2011, 22:24
Orcs and gobbos, I felt got a very quick update. So who knows.

Think so? They were first out of the gate (or maybe second? To Empire) for 7th. So that was quite a while back, really. Time does seem to fly!

Love everything about the new book, though, except not enough trinkets and trash. Need more trinkets!

nurgle5
25-09-2011, 23:08
Think so? They were first out of the gate (or maybe second? To Empire) for 7th. So that was quite a while back, really. Time does seem to fly!

They got updated quickly in comparison with other armies in the system. Recently enough 5 armies were still using 6th ed books, while OnG got new armybooks with 7th and 8th (and were amongst the first out of the gate too).




Love everything about the new book, though, except not enough trinkets and trash. Need more trinkets!

I hope this isn't another plea for more magic items, because the epitaph 'trash' is usually more appropriate than trinkets :rolleyes:.

Balerion
25-09-2011, 23:14
They got updated quickly in comparison with other armies in the system. Recently enough 5 armies were still using 6th ed books, while OnG got new armybooks with 7th and 8th (and were amongst the first out of the gate too).




I hope this isn't another plea for more magic items, because the epitaph 'trash' is usually more appropriate than trinkets :rolleyes:.
In your anti-item tirades I haven't seen you address the fact that there still remain useless items and must-have items...

A system in which 10 items of 30 get used has more variety than a system in which 3 items of 8 get used, despite the latter having a higher percentage of useable items.

Okuto
25-09-2011, 23:23
Actually I dare say dwarves and empire should be pretty soon...

As history tells us that when greenskins, stunties or humies are released the others are hot on their tail.

And if hungry hungry hippos can come out before tree hugging elves who knows what could happen

Doommasters
25-09-2011, 23:28
Please be WE's haha, all we can do is wait and hope GW gives us some clues!

Armfelt
25-09-2011, 23:42
I innerly hope that Harry has wrong. I know that he haven't had wrong this far, but I am really longing for a new Bretonnian book, and almost more importantly, more and new models.

Wood elves are the faction who need a new book the most though, without doubt.

(Guess that I will have time finish my TK project before Brets then...)

herbtarkel
26-09-2011, 00:11
They got updated quickly in comparison with other armies in the system. Recently enough 5 armies were still using 6th ed books, while OnG got new armybooks with 7th and 8th (and were amongst the first out of the gate too).

I hope this isn't another plea for more magic items, because the epitaph 'trash' is usually more appropriate than trinkets :confused:.

Don't be confused! I DO want more items. There just wasn't enough of the unique characterful items in the book. The best edition was the 6th ed. I think, for those.

Hey, maybe you don't like trinkets and trash, but I like to pick mine. I miss my Staff of Sneaky Stealin', the Suicide Bomber Surprise on Giant Hoppin' Squig, and such things.

Trustey
26-09-2011, 00:16
I interpreted the VC errata section in the recent WD as a sign it's not likely the next book to be released.

herbtarkel
26-09-2011, 00:19
I interpreted the VC errata section in the recent WD as a sign it's not likely the next book to be released.

Harry doesn't think so! And there is an old expression -

"He who eats pies, tells no lies".

That's a real expression.

Maybe the WD stuff is meant to be incorporated in the new, pretty, hardcover book that I am very much looking forward to.

Lester
26-09-2011, 00:48
Harry doesn't think so! And there is an old expression -

"He who eats pies, tells no lies".

That's a real expression.

Maybe the WD stuff is meant to be incorporated in the new, pretty, hardcover book that I am very much looking forward to.
Why put them out now when a 'supposed' book is coming out soon? They would have waited until release.
I think the VC new releases points toward no book soon, they are a patch so to speak.

nurgle5
26-09-2011, 00:59
In your anti-item tirades I haven't seen you address the fact that there still remain useless items and must-have items...

A system in which 10 items of 30 get used has more variety than a system in which 3 items of 8 get used, despite the latter having a higher percentage of useable items.

I'd agree with you that GW could be doing a better job with the magic items in the armybooks. Not all the magic items in the ABs are fantastically usable, but the common magic items are pretty solid though, which compensates to a certain degree.

My tirades (fantastic word :D) are more against the redundancy that existed among magic items because of the sheer volume. They took the most useful and frequently used magic items and consolidated them into the common items and I believe that this is a good thing. GW can design a few very flavour-some items for each book rather than making sure they have all the basic buffs. Again, they could be doing a better job, but I'm willing to forgive them because they have been doing such a good job with the important aspects of the game.

If every army kept the 30 odd magic items, there would be 450 armybook magic items. I honestly don't think that GW could design this amount of magic items without overlap, blandness, uselessness or brokenness (something they already failed at between 6th and 7th ed books). People forget that these things add significant work to the design team's schedule and I'd rather they spent their limited time and resources making the army and system good, rather than coming up with a unique name for a buff. Since the expansion of the common magic items, 30 unique magic items per army is unnecessary and unworkable without stupendous amounts of effort and time (which would, apart from anything else, push release dates way back).



I interpreted the VC errata section in the recent WD as a sign it's not likely the next book to be released.

I must admit, I'm confused about this. Like you, I thought the whole point in getting an update in WD was to tide an army over for quite a while other armies got updated, not mention the recent miniature releases. And yet, we're getting hints at a new release :confused:

Charistoph
26-09-2011, 01:10
I interpreted the VC errata section in the recent WD as a sign it's not likely the next book to be released.

You mean like Blood Angels and Sisters of Battle? Let's see, Blood Angels in WD was the Spring before 40K 5th Edition launched, correct? Then the full codex came out the 2nd Spring AFTER 40K 5th Edition launched. That's not exactly around the corner.

And We have had ZERO rumors of a Sisters of Battle codex, so no time frame on that.

So, no, quite the opposite can be inferred, I believe. As someone said earlier,

Why put them out now when a 'supposed' book is coming out soon? They would have waited until release.
I think the VC new releases points toward no book soon, they are a patch so to speak.

Exactly.

Yrrdead
26-09-2011, 01:23
I like how both you and the guys you quoted are saying the same thing.

But you are pitting them as opposites and arguing with one of them.

herbtarkel
26-09-2011, 01:45
I like how both you and the guys you quoted are saying the same thing.

But you are pitting them as opposites and arguing with one of them.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who saw the bitter irony in that.

Aww, it's kinda sweet, though, isn't it?

Charistoph
26-09-2011, 01:56
I like how both you and the guys you quoted are saying the same thing.

But you are pitting them as opposites and arguing with one of them.

Bah, I admit to a bit of fast reading leading to a complete misinterpretation.

Apologies.

Razakel
26-09-2011, 03:14
I'd certainly like to see Dwarves but I think the book has aged very well compared to others, with that in mind I wouldn't begrudge Wood Elves, VC or Brets a book first. At that point though it's gonna be a long way into 8th and I want my Dwarves as quickly as possible :D

herbtarkel
26-09-2011, 03:24
I'd certainly like to see Dwarves but I think the book has aged very well compared to others, with that in mind I wouldn't begrudge Wood Elves, VC or Brets a book first. At that point though it's gonna be a long way into 8th and I want my Dwarves as quickly as possible :D

I agree regarding Dwarfs, they are still a great army to play. Nothing too incongruous with 8th edition at all, yet I feel the pain of wanting the hardcover shiny book too!

Okuto
26-09-2011, 04:24
I just want dwarves out cause they may shake up the whole magic fad....

If hungry hungry hippos get something like the hellheart just imagine what girly mage stompyness stunties would get

Chain
02-10-2011, 00:12
[color="lime"] You actually have access to more magic items now than before. Rather than having circa 10 common magic items and 30 in your AB, now you have 60 common magic items and 8-10 in the AB. You have nearly double the options, hardly a handful



There is no "magic item" phase in the game and they should not have the same impact on the game as actual magic. They are not a core mechanic but a garnish and buff system. If ambushing your opponent with a magic item he's probably never heard of is the most joy you get from this game you should really reconsider why you're playing a wargame.




Yet your mainstreaming the magic items so that a combat character from high elves and a combat character from Warriors of chaos could have exsactly the same equipment = limited game(i don't mind a slight change in point and one comming with stupidity and the other with an armor as long as the character is reasonable)

I liked the increase in common magic items, however i stay adamant that the army books should by the very minimum have 2 unique magic items in each catagory preferably at least 3

I haven't yet looked in the new Ogre Kingdoms book but simply looking around everyones talking about hellheart, I don't think that's cool at all all the attension going to one magic item.


The game is played to be entertaining
throwing all your dice at your strongest spell to get irrisistible force and smash 1/3 of the enemys army in 1 go is not entertaining the second time.

Again i'd rather have a small item trigger the outcome be it a bonus in combat result, enemies having a harder time hitting or whatever.
Just grant me a lot of combos to pick from, heck picking 5-7 Magic items each worth 5-10 points is more interesting than picking 1 game deciding item..

I admit i like the fact that now Dreadknights and Towerguards can potentially have 3 magic items now

I just think 8'th would have been better off keeping more magic items, since without em you might as well simply agree to play for more points with your opponet :eyebrows: