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JManJump
22-09-2011, 00:30
Sory if I have posted in the wrong forum (again) but how many people use the GW Paints, kinfes, vices or brush's?
I found a brand of paint that each bottle is about 3 times the size of and normal paint pot and barely $2 (that's aussie dollers by the way)!!!
Most of my family are crafting fanatics so I won't have to worry about running out of paint, brushs or new blades but I manage to find many BETTER supplies elsewhere.
Is it me or should we really have to pay to the brand name?
Cheers

Ps first time ranting so cut me a bit of slack :D

Voss
22-09-2011, 00:34
GW general is the place for this, as its both about hobby supplies (instead of 40K) and price grumbling.


Also: surprise. You are indeed paying for the label, unless you are a price-aware consumer and decide not to.

chromedog
22-09-2011, 00:40
Anyone not inculcated into the "GW is the way, the truth and the light" knows well that all of the "hobby essentials" can be got elsewhere for less.

Those who don't have a choice or are incapable of seeing the forest because the trees are in the way, generally use GW as a one-stop-drain-your-wallet shop.

Ozendorph
22-09-2011, 00:41
I primarily buy the GW (Citadel) stuff. Not because it's necessarily any better, I just figure if GW goes under, Liquitex is unlikely to manufacture the models I require to survive ;)

teheuax
22-09-2011, 00:43
I have used GW paints and craft store paints. For my models I do prefer the GW paints. But not enough to buy it over just craft store paint. If it wasnt convenient to buy the GW paints while buying models, I would go with craft store paints all the time. As for other products, I like their plastic glue and brushes.

JManJump
22-09-2011, 00:48
Point being you can buy cheaper and better supplies in other places.
the only paint I will buy from GW is the wash's.
look for Folk Art Paints that's what I use.

unheilig
22-09-2011, 00:51
Point being you can buy cheaper and better supplies in other places.
the only paint I will buy from GW is the wash's.
look for Folk Art Paints that's what I use.

So now we can take your opinion of "better" with a grain of salt.

An actual "better" brand of paint would be vallejo or reaper master series... and even then, some of GW's colors (metallics) cannot be beat.

CAVEAT: unless someone has ever found a better version of Burnished Gold, love the color... but its like painting with spoiled milk

I use the GW hobby knife and pin vise because i find them to be preferable to other brands.

I've broken two sets of their snips, so use an alternate brand I find to be better.

Like everything else in life, weigh cost vs. value, and make your personal decison... like an adult.

JManJump
22-09-2011, 00:56
Like everything else in life, weigh cost vs. value, and make your personal decison... like an adult.

I'm a Teenager I'm alound my Incompetance

MajorWesJanson
22-09-2011, 04:13
GW craft supplies are like popcorn at the theater. Expensive, decent quality, but most people smuggle in cheaper options.

Lorenzen
22-09-2011, 04:30
paint wise im a vallejo model colour man, the fact that i get 17ml instead of 12ml for a cheaper price (and its better paint) makes it a no brainer.. and as far as the metallics go, the gw ones can suck on my vallejo model air metallics. VMA steel is made out of 96% win.

supply wise i use some old metal handled "hobby" knife that ive had since forever and just replace the blades with ones from a local hobby shop, plastic glue i use humbrol because it was misspriced in my local hobby shop.. primer i use halfords stuff.. brushes i use windsor and newton series 7 an airbrush and some busted up old brushes from the dawn of time for things like drybrushing. superglue comes from wilkinsons.

essentially it either has to be better quality or similar quality and cheaper for me.. gw products never fall into either catagory for me and as such dont get used with the exception of a few foundation paints which are drying out anyway due to subpar pots.. oh and my massive back log of all the paints gw discontinued that i got for free when they were clearing them out.. i think i have more pots of midnight blue than most people have paints.

the1stpip
22-09-2011, 09:36
I have never used their glue. The poly cement is too easy to get everywhere. I prefer Humbrol Liquid Poly, which comes with a brush. As for superglue, I have tried cheapo versions, but now stick with Bostik.

And I buy GW paints because they are pretty good and convenience. Its not easy getting hold of Vallejo.

So yeah, see what's available, try it out, and if you don't like it, or it's too expensive, don't buy it.

PatrikW
22-09-2011, 10:01
Is it me or should we really have to pay to the brand name?

This is probably the biggest chunk of what you pay for in any product that ain't made by a "no name brand" be it clothing or toy soldiers.


That being said I use some GW products and some from other manufactures, some of the GW paint is the best i have found in that particular colour.
Knifes and glue i don't think i have ever bought from gw.

Bunnahabhain
22-09-2011, 11:16
Some GW paints are useful. They are the only supplies I have bough for them in some years- " I'm out of colour X, I'm passing/in GW, I'll pick up a pot, as I can't be bothered to make a 25 minute diversion to the other shop for the sake of 83p."

However, if you're going to the generic model shop anyway, I tend to take a shopping list, so I remember what I need, and don't pay excess for GW stuff. As others have said, Its all really price vs convenience.

For some stuff though, it's never worth it. GW (or any other) plastic glue in plastic bottles? No thanks. I'll have the Humbol Liquid poly cement with fine metal nozzle that lasts forever, and goes exactly where you want. I'm not prepared to compromise on quality and value at the same time.

And sometimes any model shops are just too pricey. Virtually all my scenery is made with DIY stuff (hot glue guns are wonderful) and painted using tester pots of household paints, at 250 ml for the price of 12 ml of GW ones. Thinned properly, they work very well. I love airbrushes too...

Aluinn
22-09-2011, 11:27
I agree for the most part, but I do think GW offer some great paints and washes that other paint lines don't really compete with--not necessarily because they're inferior, but because the GW products are somewhat unique. Namely, these are the Foundation paints and the newer washes, especially Devlan Mud, Badab Black, and Gryphonne Sepia. The Foundation paints are just not something that other companies make as far as I've seen (i.e. paint specifically designed for base-coating), and I really like a lot of the muted tones in there as well. The washes actually do seem superior to other washes or inks. Oddly, GW's more brightly-colored washes still seem like pretty standard stuff, so I'm not sure if the darker colors are made using a different formula, or if the formula simply lends itself better to darker colors, but it doesn't really matter much; however they do it, I genuinely seem to get better results with GW black/brown washes than with others.

For ordinary paints I prefer Reaper, but having said that, GW paints don't cost all that much more (and IIRC are, or were at one point, cheaper than Vallejo).

omegoku
22-09-2011, 12:26
I use GW paints, and rarely the washes. I love their Foundation paints. I am sure there are cheaper and better alternatives out there, but I'll be damned if I could muster myself to search them out.

I have gotten sick of the undercoat so I am questing for cheap matt black spray that matchs GWs.

I would never buy their brushes, clippers, etc
Although I have a brush or 2 from old paint sets, and I got the drill to but holes in my bolters when it first came out. No idea where it is now..

Godzooky
22-09-2011, 12:40
I'm a Teenager I'm alound my Incompetance

You're also "alound" to use a spell checker. :p

Cheeslord
22-09-2011, 12:41
If you're in th UK, Wilkinsons does a range of spray paints that are cheap and you get a huge can for your money. I find the quality of the coating is enough that my painting skill is the limiting factor in how good the models look. Elite painters may find otherwise.

Mark.

JManJump
22-09-2011, 13:09
You're also "alound" to use a spell checker. :p

I have done far worse before

Erazmus_M_Wattle
22-09-2011, 13:36
If you're in th UK, Wilkinsons does a range of spray paints that are cheap and you get a huge can for your money. I find the quality of the coating is enough that my painting skill is the limiting factor in how good the models look. Elite painters may find otherwise.

Mark.

Wilko's also do a really decent hobby vice. It I'd lurid yellow and has the same suction cup attachment as the citadel one. Though it's made of metal, not plastic. It was 19.99 last time I checked. If I didn't already have a good hobby vice I'd have got one.

I think their own brand sprays are bloody brilliant and they seem to have a lot more paint in them. I recently started adding more iron warriors to my army. I used the silver spray. A Badab black/Devlan mud mix wash job done. it was quick and looks pretty good.

I use revel poly cement with the needle applicator, superglue from s pound shop because you get multiple bottles for one pound, a hobby knife set from Homebase which had two handles and ten or so blades.

I do use GW clippers and pin vice. I also love their paints. I've tried other brands but I didn't like them so much.

DCLXVI
22-09-2011, 13:50
I've got loads of the old paints, built up over years so I only need to get one if one runs out, goes dry etc. I still use my GW all metal pin vice but most of my other hobby tools are not GW made and I use Army Painter colour spray cans, or other brands (see below), not the expensive 'official' stuff.


If you're in the UK, Wilkinsons does a range of spray paints that are cheap and you get a huge can for your money. I find the quality of the coating is enough that my painting skill is the limiting factor in how good the models look. Elite painters may find otherwise.

Mark.

FashaTheDog
22-09-2011, 14:16
I only buy the GW paints because I've used them for the past 20 (bought a set of the paint boxes back in the late 80s) and switching will be noticeable on the existing armies. I do have a few Winsor and Newton acrylics to supplement as the GW paints are far too thin to use interference. Apart from that, I don't purchase any GW hobby supplies, Woodland Scenics is my go to for basing thanks to the abundant supply I have of it (I also have HO, N, and Z scale trains). I have no need to buy any of their tools as I've already had everything I need from pin vices to razors to paint brushes (although replacements are bought at artist stores). I use Loctite superglue as it is also best for numerous other non-hobby uses like ceramics repair and whatever 2 part epoxy we happen to have open here. GW's foam cutter for instance was the exact same one I bought at Michael's for $2, all GW did was put a sticker on it, but you could still see the white with green swirls on the handle. I use a real airbrush with a compressor as opposed to that goofy and unwieldy spray gun of theirs. Then there are a few hobby supplies of mine that GW cannot realistically sell, like my 2 ton lathe and various saws and cutters. Because of those, I also do not buy the GW movement trays as I can just grab a sheet of galvanized steel from the pile, mark it off, and cut (I have a backlog right now as the workshop is currently inaccessible due to cleaning from flooding and my brother's rearranging of his glass shop).

Nomrana Est
22-09-2011, 14:38
Most of my hobby essentials are from external sources, like my hobby knife, cutting mat, adhesives (both poly-cement and superglue), sculpting tools, files and brushes, both standard and airbrush. I also use building sand for my basing.

I do have the GW pin vice and clippers though, which I've found to be pretty decent, but will probably replace at some point in the future after they've worn out.

I do use the GW paint range though, namely because I've used it since I started, and using a different paint range , I feel, would dramatically change the look of my army, and also because I've been unable to find any other range that gives me the washes or foundation paints like GW.

Hrw-Amen
22-09-2011, 15:13
I use GW paints but not ONLY GW paints.

As for the other stuff, well actually I have to say that in spite of trying numerous cheaper brushes both from art and hobby suppliers (As well as some more expensive ones. Do they actually breed squirrels for this purpose or just tempt wild ones with offers of nuts in exchange for a few hairs?) I have not found any better or as long lasting.

As for the actual tools, glue, flock and so on, well obviously they can be bought elsewhere for cheaper and are just as good if not better.

With glue I actually do not like the GW ones, I tend to use the Locktite with the really thin nozzle as it does not clog and allows for a really fine drop to be placed. I don't tend to use plastic glue as I find it very messy and smelly.

Threeshades
22-09-2011, 17:20
The only GW tools I have are a hand drill and a sculpting tool. I also use some of their paints, because I find the alternatives to be insufficiently matching sometimes, but other than that I only use materials from other manufacturers. My plastic glue comes from a regular glue manufacturer, my super glue is Filla, my Putty is Pro-Create, most of my paints are Vallejo, my static grass and foliage come from the local architecture supply store, most of my tools are from a regular hardware store or similar etc.

Sami
22-09-2011, 17:25
I used Vallejo paints purely because the bottles are much much better then GW's flip-top system.

TMATK
22-09-2011, 17:46
I can never understand why people are in love with dropper bottles. There's always paint globbing out after you shake them up. Some of the colors, like vallejo's bleached bone, are quite thin and tend to pour out quickly if you're not careful.

With GW or P3 paint pots, I can use the back side of the brush to get exactly the amount I need on my pallete.

Scalebug
22-09-2011, 19:45
I don't feel "paints" and "modelling supplies" can be really filed under the same heading here... I certainly use their paints (although I am not at all brand-loyal when it comes to that, I use a lot of Valleyo, and recently was given a big bag of 20+ years old "Humbrol fantasy" paints, which a friend found at his parents place. A lot of the pots were of course dried solid, but nearly half of them still works fine).

Plastic glue, I use GW's because you don't really find other brands that are that much cheaper, and to do so you have to go into a toystore, and at that it is kept behind the counter, because huffing glue got a revival a few years back and they had to regulate who they sold to, etc... For all that hassle, I feel I might as well support my LFGS and buy GW's glue from them. Superglue is found in other stores, and about 30% cheaper, so I pick it up there, but I snigger at discussions of "Brand X is so much better" or "GW's superglue is crap"... It is all cooked up in same giant vat in a Chinese chemical plant, differences are from batch to batch, not between brands...

No, would not buy GW knives, Saws and cutting boards, because I know I can get them much cheaper from other sources, but when people mock the mark-up, this is what they are not understanding; If you buy it, you are not paying for the brand name, you are paying for the convenience of picking it up at the same store as you bought your models. It is up to you to decide what your time is worth. And the store is charging for the shelf-space of a slow-moving product, think of it as taking up space that could have been used for merchandise that more people bought, and at that even bought several of (Say, "boxes of Space marines", to be cynical... :p).


Do have two of the old, all-metal pin-vices though, since 20 years back...

Lars Porsenna
22-09-2011, 20:35
I can never understand why people are in love with dropper bottles. There's always paint globbing out after you shake them up. Some of the colors, like vallejo's bleached bone, are quite thin and tend to pour out quickly if you're not careful.


I quite agree. I was hoping that the Vallejo dropper bottles would just be a fad, but Reaper Master series is using it as well. I don't buy the excuse that dropper bottles save paint; I waste just as much paint with them as without, with the added frustration of clogs and inability to stick a paint handle in them to stir the paint. Personally I transferred ALL of my Vallejo, Andrea and Reaper master Series paints into Badger 1oz glass jars with plastic lids (I also did this with GW's boltgun, as I pre-thin it). Of course I don't paint directly from the bottle, but transfer a brushload or two to a pallette.

I'm a paint junky, and over the years I've tried: Reaper Pro-paints, Reaper Master Series, Ral Partha paints, Coat d'Arms, Vallejo Model Color, Vallejo game color (horrid paint!), Folkart, Ceramcoat, Apple Barrel (latter 3 are craft paints), Testors Acryl, Testors Model Master, Polly S, Polly Scale, Tamiya, Humbrol Enamel, Humbrol Acrylics, and probably a few others I can't think of.

The best out of that bunch for handpainting is...Polly S. Seeing as that is permanently OOP, I like GWs paints. Having tried all the others, I'm entitled to have that opinion...

Airbrushing is a different matter, and GW paints suck in an airbrush. For that I prefer Tamiya, then Polly Scale, then Testors Acryl. In fact, I mixed up a batch of "Snot Green" in Tamiya paints to airbrush some shoulder pads tonight...

Damon.

Konovalev
22-09-2011, 20:57
Plastic glue, I use GW's because you don't really find other brands that are that much cheaper, and to do so you have to go into a toystore


I don't know where you live, but here on the east coast US we get
GW plastic glue: $6.60 for 0.7oz
Testors plastic glue:$5.50 for 1oz of testors plastic glue with precison applicator(needle) or $3 for 7oz in a more typical tube with an applicator no worse than the GW one.

Testors also offers non-toxic scented glue for the huffing concern you had.



Superglue is found in other stores, and about 30% cheaper, so I pick it up there, but I snigger at discussions of "Brand X is so much better" or "GW's superglue is crap"... It is all cooked up in same giant vat in a Chinese chemical plant, differences are from batch to batch, not between brands...


You don't actually believe that do you?

Okuto
22-09-2011, 21:10
I only buy the metal paints, other than that my paints are all vallejo and my local store carries it's own spray which is a lot cheaper

Grimtuff
22-09-2011, 21:18
And I buy GW paints because they are pretty good and convenience. Its not easy getting hold of Vallejo.


Pip, Boyes in the indoor market next to the Co-op stock the entire Vallejo Model Colour range. ;) 1.75 a pot IIRC.


If you're in th UK, Wilkinsons does a range of spray paints that are cheap and you get a huge can for your money. I find the quality of the coating is enough that my painting skill is the limiting factor in how good the models look. Elite painters may find otherwise.

Mark.

The enamel ones? I find those too thick and they leave a tacky feeling long after the model has been painted. I had to strip a few models after a quick blast from that obscured a fair bit of detail. A friend of mine has recommended Halfords spray. My Retribution are awaiting the results... :)

LonelyPath
23-09-2011, 00:37
I use a mix of things from various companies, however my paints are almost all Citadel and some of them date back to the 80s that have yet to be used up completely. However, for my sprays I've go to whatever i can get at the time (usually Halfords or Army Painter). Brushes I pick up dirt cheap in bargain bins in arts & crafts shops, many I've snatched for as little as 50p and they're every bit as good as the GW, though at full price they made GW brushes look very cheap.

With my glues, I use the Revell liquid poly (I love the tube applicator) and Filla-Glu (it seems to stick everything except me together lol).

Sculpting tools I picked up off Ebay, strange enough I got a good quality set of 12 double ended tools from Japan for next to nothing in a private sale. For my other hobby tools I have a old jewelers saw (which I am currently replacing) and various others odds and ends like files, etc that I got many years ago in a modeling kit set.

I douse the GW knife and pin vice though, they're pretty good value (if you ask me anyway) and the knife is nice and chunky which helps with my poor grip.

Gir
23-09-2011, 02:40
Everything I use is gw except for super glue and paint brushes. This is simply because it's convenient for me, and my time to get products from different manufactures is worth more then the price difference.

luchog
23-09-2011, 02:59
Sory if I have posted in the wrong forum (again) but how many people use the GW Paints, kinfes, vices or brush's?
I found a brand of paint that each bottle is about 3 times the size of and normal paint pot and barely $2 (that's aussie dollers by the way)!!!
Most of my family are crafting fanatics so I won't have to worry about running out of paint, brushs or new blades but I manage to find many BETTER supplies elsewhere.
Is it me or should we really have to pay to the brand name?

I know a few people who insist on "paying the GW tax" as it were; but the only GW crafting stuff I use is the paint; and not even very much of that. All my crafting tools, glues, and paints I get from ordinary art supply, hobby, and hardware shops. I use more Tamiya paint than any other brand; and since nearly all of my Citadel paints appear to have dried out after having sat for a year or so (thanks to those stupid failpots; the older stuff I have is still fine, and all my other paints are perfectly good as well); I'm thinking of dropping Citadel entirely and going with Reaper or Vallejo.

MrCarbohydrate
23-09-2011, 06:00
I use GW Paints so I know I get a consistent colour. I sometimes go weeks without painting anything, then want to pick up where I left off on an army.

I prime with Floquil. I love those little cans.

Things like blades, files, glue, etc I all get from a hobby shop, not gw. Brushes too.

Actually got a really nice 7 piece brush set for under $10 a few months ago.

Edit: Woodland Scenics are great for terrain building, to echo the top of the page. I used some model train retaining walls and tunnel entrance to build a fantasy keep, which was fun.

herbtarkel
23-09-2011, 08:06
So now we can take your opinion of "better" with a grain of salt.

An actual "better" brand of paint would be vallejo or reaper master series... and even then, some of GW's colors (metallics) cannot be beat.

CAVEAT: unless someone has ever found a better version of Burnished Gold, love the color... but its like painting with spoiled milk

Try Vallejo Liquid Metal, not the regular Vallejo, line. They are alcohol based, and so are quite different. I love them! You are right though, the GW metals are hard to beat.

I personally have switched to Vallejo for all my paints, I have around 150 now. They even have an awesome primer that can be brushed on if need be but is meant to be airbrushed - it's heavenly to work with. No more trying to get those tough to reach places, the airbrush is deadly accurate! Oh, that's an Iwata, running on a real compressor - don't waste money on the GW one or the cans of air! 7-8 cans and you could have a small real compressor!

ModelCalamity
23-09-2011, 08:26
Actually I don't really care what brand I use. I do care about ease of buying. So because GW has almost all I need I end up getting most of their shop. for me that's worth the premium.

So why do I buy?

1 not having to search for stuff all over the place.
2. not having to try random stuff which sometimes doesn't work and thus cost me as a wasteful purchase
3. Not having to wait 4 weeks and 2 trips down to the post office to get stuff from the Internet.
4. Because in most cases it has an imperial eagle on the stuff.
5. GW metals, foundations and washes are unsurpassed in my style of painting by other products.
6. So I can flaunt my more expensive tools in regards to cheaper stuff. (much like People flaunt their more expensive sunglasses or shoes) So I am saying subconsciously I have more money to waste than you ;)

The thing with your thread is that you are asking a basic question concerning all brands, not just GW. In the end almost everything is made in china and the difference in price has all to do with branding anyways.

Spyral
23-09-2011, 08:38
I do tend to buy vallejho ones if I'm replacing a colour that is not essential that I keep the same. For things like blood red, enchanted blue and the foundation colours, silver colours (chainmail, bltgun metal as well as the washes I go GW. For gold/brass and lesser used colours (carmine, turquoiuses skin tones) I go vallejho as it's more likely that the lack of consistency doesn't matter.

sorienor
23-09-2011, 11:06
I primarily buy the GW (Citadel) stuff. Not because it's necessarily any better, I just figure if GW goes under, Liquitex is unlikely to manufacture the models I require to survive ;)

LOL ^this :D

Faeslayer
23-09-2011, 21:22
I use GW's pin vise and files, I prefer their sand (it's tumbled and less "jaggy"). Their greenstuff is overpriced, but waaaay easier for me to get ahold of than other brands (the stuff at hardware stores stinks, in more ways than one!).

The pin vise is lovely. I hate the ones with that metal piece on the end- the rounded grippy bit on GW's is lovely.

spurker
23-09-2011, 21:38
I use GW stuff except brushes. The paint has very finely ground pigment, has a good flow-rate (that I rarely need to add enhancer to), dries quickly (so I don't have to wait around ages for it to dry) but not too quickly (so blending is possible). On top of that, I like to support GW so they will keep making stuff I like

luchog
23-09-2011, 22:19
The pin vise is lovely. I hate the ones with that metal piece on the end- the rounded grippy bit on GW's is lovely.

Not a fan of GW's pin vise; being a bit flimsy, among other reasons. I found a much better one, of Japanese manufacture, although I forget where (possibly Daiso), with interchangeable chucks that allow me to use a much wider range of bits than the GW one.

FashaTheDog
23-09-2011, 23:38
This thread has got me wondering when the overpriced and faulty GW rotary tool will come out, especially since I love my Dremel and couldn't imagine not having it at hand at all times.

Sildani
24-09-2011, 01:18
I like GW's brushes. I've used the black-handled ones since they were released and they've done very well.

As for paint... I use whatever color I need, which means I have no real brand loyalty. I currently have Citadel, Vallejo Model, Vallejo Air, and Tamiya. I have a Squadron pin vise, a Dremel, Harbor Freight third hand, Harbor Freight compressor, Paasche airbrush, Ace Hardware tweezers, Gorilla super glue, Testors plastic glue, Rustoleum black for priming, and so on.

Whatever you do, if you buy something that works, don't second guess it. If it works, it's worth whatever you paid for it.

herbtarkel
24-09-2011, 02:57
This thread has got me wondering when the overpriced and faulty GW rotary tool will come out, especially since I love my Dremel and couldn't imagine not having it at hand at all times.

Far too dangerous for Little Timmy! But funny, nonetheless.

I too have a Dremel - very handy, and it is a bit scary how fast that thing can get. Timmy wouldn't stand a chance!

Raellos
24-09-2011, 03:20
I got my vast collection of GW paints nicked, including some still wet ancient hand me downs with the white lids. Having replaced the colours needed for my CSMs I haven't been interested with GW at all (except for the odd social tournament) and have got some vallejo for Secrets of the Third Reich and historicals (haven't used them yet though, having trouble with the distributor replying to me about ordering some figures).

I've found the GW brushes to be quite decent but use a variety, I do not use GW glue, that would be madness. I also use hobby shop knives, either excell or that other brand that I just can't think of right now.

herbtarkel
24-09-2011, 03:23
I got my vast collection of GW paints nicked, including some still wet ancient hand me downs with the white lids. Having replaced the colours needed for my CSMs I haven't been interested with GW at all (except for the odd social tournament) and have got some vallejo for Secrets of the Third Reich and historicals (haven't used them yet though, having trouble with the distributor replying to me about ordering some figures).

I've found the GW brushes to be quite decent but use a variety, I do not use GW glue, that would be madness. I also use hobby shop knives, either excell or that other brand that I just can't think of right now.

Zona maybe? They make good alternate modal making kit. Make sure you shake the bejeepers out of your Vallejo! Can't emphasize it enough. And a cool tip is to take a metal bit or two, and toss them in the bottle to create a rattler to help shake them up. I will literally shake mine for a minute - or two! - to get the paint going again and mixed up.

Grimtuff
24-09-2011, 15:44
Far too dangerous for Little Timmy! But funny, nonetheless.

I too have a Dremel - very handy, and it is a bit scary how fast that thing can get. Timmy wouldn't stand a chance!

But it's a totally untapped market, they could make it look like a Chainsword and everything! ;)

herbtarkel
24-09-2011, 15:48
But it's a totally untapped market, they could make it look like a Chainsword and everything! ;)

Holy crap, you're on to something there! Lol.

Kijamon
24-09-2011, 16:06
I can't believe people post this sort of nonsense so regularly on forums.

It's a company, they are not your friend, they want your money. If you don't like it, find a suitable replacement elsewhere. If you can't find a cheaper replacement, buy what you can find.

It's not hard is it?

herbtarkel
24-09-2011, 16:11
I can't believe people post this sort of nonsense so regularly on forums.

It's a company, they are not your friend, they want your money. If you don't like it, find a suitable replacement elsewhere. If you can't find a cheaper replacement, buy what you can find.

It's not hard is it?

Keeping in mind cheaper isn't always better too. I am happy to pay more if the quality is better, honestly. I keep my hobby stuff for a long time, a relatively cheap tool will earn its keep many times over if it doesn't break or wear out if I pay a bit more. I generally don't buy GW tools anymore, but they do have acouple of handy items. The suction based vise is something I have used since the day it came out. They did that right. That is all.

Other stuff? Airbrush from GW is a farce. I will say that I paid a lot more for my Iwata - but it's a REAL airbrush!

eldargal
24-09-2011, 16:36
I use their paints, some brushes and that is about it. Most of the other stuff can be had better and cheaper at a craftstore. I love GW because they produce quality products, but if something they produce isn't quality I will go elsewhere. Simple as that.

Verm1s
24-09-2011, 16:54
The answer should be obvious, but I wonder if some of you have ever heard of this thing they have now called the internet. I hear it's fairly good for looking stuff up and buying things.

If it's less convenient than going out of your way to a GW shop and buying paint at 200% the cost, and overpriced underpar equipment, you're doing it wrong.

And if you're worried the stuff doesn't have an imperial eagle to flaunt, the authorities need to rescue you from GW's compound and send you on for deprogramming.

spurker
25-09-2011, 07:53
The answer should be obvious, but I wonder if some of you have ever heard of this thing they have now called the internet. I hear it's fairly good for looking stuff up and buying things.

If it's less convenient than going out of your way to a GW shop and buying paint at 200% the cost, and overpriced underpar equipment, you're doing it wrong.

And if you're worried the stuff doesn't have an imperial eagle to flaunt, the authorities need to rescue you from GW's compound and send you on for deprogramming.

Despite the unneeded rudeness and the opinion on whether GW is overcosted (i thought such comments were not allowed) the advice on searching the internet is good. Have a look around.

FashaTheDog
25-09-2011, 16:49
It wasn't rude, it was in character with his avatar.:p

bluemage
25-09-2011, 17:23
It wasn't really rude, it was just stating the obvious. If you're posting on warseer you have access to a computer and it takes me only a couple of minutes to order something online. Even if a GW was next to me it would still be faster to order online than to go outside, walk 40 feet and stand in line and pay.

spurker
25-09-2011, 17:47
I think stating the obvious in a sarcastic way counts as rudeness, even when I do it myself. Verm1s WAS being sarcastic and so I take it as rudeness. The law in my country says that if someone takes offence, what was said was offensive, regardless of intent. Therefore, I think it was rude so it was rude.

eldargal
25-09-2011, 17:51
Really? Personally I would rather go to a local (craft, not GW)store where I can return a faulty tool easily if it breaks.


It wasn't really rude, it was just stating the obvious. If you're posting on warseer you have access to a computer and it takes me only a couple of minutes to order something online. Even if a GW was next to me it would still be faster to order online than to go outside, walk 40 feet and stand in line and pay.

Codsticker
25-09-2011, 17:54
GW general is the place for this, as its both about hobby supplies (instead of 40K) and price grumbling.

Correct! Thread moved.

Codsticker

The Warseer Mod Squad

shelfunit.
25-09-2011, 18:39
Whilst I feel the cost of GWs paints is far too high (86% higher per ml than Vallejo for example) I cannot complain about the quality. I use a mix of GW, Vallejo and foundry and have seen no difference in quality of paints across the ranges. Despite being suspicious of the reasons behind GW's release of the "liquid Green Stuff" I am interested in giving it a go, as I have horrible meat fists when it comes to normal greenstuffing of gaps, especially the small ones on visible joins halfway down limbs or on other clearly visible areas of a model.

Damien 1427
25-09-2011, 18:48
I'll be honest, I prefer their knives, if only because the handle is easier on my hand (The old metal handle that was perfectly round hurt to use). Same with the saw. The sad thing was these were cheaper than buying out of, say, Hobbycraft (Because Hobbycraft are the masters of gouging). As for paints, well, one day I'll try out P3 and more than the occasional bottle of Vajello, and that will be when Wayland gets their new warehouse/storefront finished. I could order them online, but I prefer to actually look at the paint and see if it is indeed the colour I'm looking for. I find that a lot easier in real life than going by pictures on an online store.

That being said and done, I'd kill a man to have a stockist of Coat D'Arms, or at least, their empty bottles. I've stuff from when I started in 1997 in those bottles that is still good to use.

Lars Porsenna
25-09-2011, 18:53
That being said and done, I'd kill a man to have a stockist of Coat D'Arms, or at least, their empty bottles. I've stuff from when I started in 1997 in those bottles that is still good to use.

Every once in a while, when I start on a new project, I'll deliberately use all paints from one manufacturer. FREX, when I started my Night Goblins, I planned on using all Coat d'Arms. Too bad Black Tree Design (the only vendor I knew at the time selling these) couldn't deliver Goblin Green in a timely manner, so ended up using GW colors. My OK might be a good subject for all Coat d'Arms.

And yes, for those that don't know Coat d'Arms is GW's old-old paint.

Damon.

Private_SeeD
25-09-2011, 20:44
I've always used GW paints, brushes and glues since I started GW. I got my drill, files and knife from Hobby craft since they were cheaper and the quality really didn't matter to me. Might pick up some of Wilkinson's own spray paint cause I don't think it's value for money. Also anyone in the UK have any suggestions for basing sand I'm not a fan of the GW stuff think its too fine.

Spiney Norman
25-09-2011, 22:34
I generally buy GW paints because they are readily available on my high street, to access Vallejo Game colour paints (which in my experience are the only vaguely acceptable substitutes that produce a similar enough colour range to citadel paints) I have to make an hour trip to an indy stockist in Sheffield or order online and wait a week for the paints I need now.

Also there are some essential things that GW are fairly unique for, Devlan mud being the main one, but the Foundations paints range are exceptional quality and I would actually pay over the odds even if I could get Vallejo more locally.

As far as glue goes there is no way I would buy GW superglue or plastic glue. You can get super-glue almost anywhere cheaper and with a better delivery system than the GW bottle (mostly I use Wilkos) and several local shops stock Revel Contacta with the needle thin delivery system that I find works best for plastics.

As far as stuff like filler goes, I currently use greenstuff because I bought a pack several years ago and I haven't got through it yet.

And brushes... well GW brushes are clearly overpriced, but they are also very good quality, I never buy cheap on brushes because its false economy to pay 1/3 the price for a brush which will last 1/10 as long.

dala_karn
25-09-2011, 22:41
i buy GW paints as most painting guides aimed at warhammer in general are done using those colours and i'm too lazy to look for substitutes (though i do by my paints cheaper from a IDS) while files, clippers, glue and brushes i buy from other companies.

Spiney Norman
26-09-2011, 11:27
i buy GW paints as most painting guides aimed at warhammer in general are done using those colours and i'm too lazy to look for substitutes (though i do by my paints cheaper from a IDS) while files, clippers, glue and brushes i buy from other companies.

Thats why I only really use Citadel or vallejo paints, the Game Colour line from Vallejo is directly equivalent to the citadel line, i.e they make the same colours, and in most cases with very similar names.

alexh
26-09-2011, 20:34
And I buy GW paints because they are pretty good and convenience. Its not easy getting hold of Vallejo.

Next time you go near Boyes, pop in. The one in Middlesbrough has a huge range of Vallejo paints (both model and game colour) and I'd assume other stores carry the range.

thenamelessdead
26-09-2011, 21:49
I have never used their glue. The poly cement is too easy to get everywhere. I prefer Humbrol Liquid Poly, which comes with a brush. As for superglue, I have tried cheapo versions, but now stick with Bostik.
I think I had one GW superglue, probably one of my very first purchases and I quickly learnt not to bother again. The only major criteria for me is that it shouldn't be too thin (it gets everywhere) and that the container shouldn't glue itself shut or allow the glue to solidify too easily.

I also had a GW poly cement, but mine had a brush - this was in the mid 90's. Very useful, as the metal tube I'd had before used to gush sometimes! My room used to stink of the stuff - probably killed a lot of brain cells :chrome:


Edited to add: I've only ever bothered with GW paints. In the old days that might not have been advisable (not sure really what genuine alternatives there were). But now I think they're really good - the only thing that would make me think about another make is the price (which, of course, is heinous). Having grown up with the old range (hexagonal pots and earlier) the new range is quality. The foundations are excellent and head and shoulders over their watery ancestors.

Scaryscarymushroom
27-09-2011, 07:08
Sory if I have posted in the wrong forum (again) but how many people use the GW Paints, kinfes, vices or brush's?
I found a brand of paint that each bottle is about 3 times the size of and normal paint pot and barely $2 (that's aussie dollers by the way)!!!
Most of my family are crafting fanatics so I won't have to worry about running out of paint, brushs or new blades but I manage to find many BETTER supplies elsewhere.
Is it me or should we really have to pay to the brand name?
Cheers

Ps first time ranting so cut me a bit of slack :D

I avoided buying GW tools at the suggestion of fellow warseers. Last year, the general consensus was that GW's tools are hugely overpriced and not very reliable.

As for their supergule: It's about $10 for 30 grams. Gorilla brand superglue from a craft supply store is $5 for 15 grams. So it's really a tossup.

As for brushes: there are less expensive brush kits all over the place, and there are also very high quality brush kits around too for a comparable price to GW brushes. If you don't take good care of your brushes and don't especially fancy yourself a painter, you might as well just get something that comes to a good point. If you soap and lather your brushes and never dip the bristles further than 3/4 into your paint, get some nice ones. They don't need to be GW brand unless you'd like to "pay the tax."

As for paints: GW's paints can't make you a good painter. But a good painter would be wise to invest in paints as high a quality as GW's. More paint doesn't always mean you got a better deal.

EDIT: WHOA! I just double checked the price of their superglue. Looks like they repackaged it since I last bought any. $6.60 for 5 grams!?

SunTzu
27-09-2011, 10:40
As for their supergule: It's about $10 for 30 grams. Gorilla brand superglue from a craft supply store is $5 for 15 grams. So it's really a tossup.

EDIT: WHOA! I just double checked the price of their superglue. Looks like they repackaged it since I last bought any. $6.60 for 5 grams!?

Yeah... exactly. Not to mention that GW superglue is nowadays about as sticky with water. You could wash your hands with it.

Zap-a-gap (to name but one example) is about a quarter of the price and actually sticky.


As for brushes: ... They don't need to be GW brand unless you'd like to "pay the tax."

GW brushes actually aren't bad, though cheaper ones are available; but if you have aspirations of being a genuinely good painter you'll want brushes of a quality similar to their Masterclass series. Problem: the Masterclass set costs 75 for five brushes and you'll only ever use the Fine Detail one. The exact same equivalent brush is available for about 10 from elsewhere.


As for paints: GW's paints can't make you a good painter. But a good painter would be wise to invest in paints as high a quality as GW's. More paint doesn't always mean you got a better deal.

And yet Vallejo paints are at least as good quality, slightly cheaper for considerably more paint, and to all intents and purposes they don't dry out (unlike GW's paints ever since changing to the short-and-fat pots instead of the old tall thin ones... and in fact they seem to change their lids slightly every year, getting worse every time). The only time I buy GW any more is to 100% guarantee an exact colour match with something I've painted already; lines like Vallejo and others provide colour matching charts so even that isn't always needed, though sometimes they can be slightly different.

Lord_Squinty
30-09-2011, 23:22
I use GW paints, brushes and some tools exclusively. Never ever seen a flat edged pair of snips anywhere else. (still use the old yellow handle pair)

Say what you like, the paints and brushes are of very good quality.

Superglue I get from supermarket and I know others get PVA and sand from early learning centres

GraveGuard
01-10-2011, 01:30
But it's a totally untapped market, they could make it look like a Chainsword and everything! ;)
Nah, Harlequins' Kiss instead.




Also anyone in the UK have any suggestions for basing sand I'm not a fan of the GW stuff think its too fine.
B&Q/Homebase/Builders merchant, and just pick up a bag of sand of what type you want for a few quid.

umekichi
04-10-2011, 15:56
I use GW paints as it's very handy to get them(I just have to go across the road xD). I use artist paintbrushes however I also use a GW brush(I'm not a fantastic painter so it doesn't bother me what I use as long as I can get them looking reasonably ok). It's easier to get the artist's brushes as there is an art shop across the road. I don't really use GW's tools except for the clippers as once my models look ok out of the box they're graaand xD

lbecks
12-10-2011, 01:00
I bought a GW mega paint set on ebay about 8 years ago so I still use the paints and brushes that came with it. Both are good but I also supplemented it over time with other paints and better quality brushes. The thing with GW is for the price you can usually get an equally good or better and more quantity tool/paint.

Socaddict
12-10-2011, 07:16
I use GW paints, brushes and some tools exclusively. Never ever seen a flat edged pair of snips anywhere else. (still use the old yellow handle pair)

DIY stores. Look for side cutters/side pliers or similar.

I have a nice big set that are heavier duty and more comfortable for long periods than my old yellow handled pair from GW, that cost me significantly less. I think I might even have got them in homebase.

horizon
12-10-2011, 08:01
Recently I switched to coat d'arms for the paint. More paint for less money then GW point. In fact, it is the old citadel paint range (GW '90's). White flipflop cap. Everlasting paint which won't die on me. (I have GW paint from the '90's in excellent state, GW paint from the '00's always dies fast).

All other hobby material is non-GW as well.

Anaris
12-10-2011, 14:23
The only thing I don't get from GW is PVA. Everything else I buy exclusively from them, from paint to tools.

Why? Plain and simple, I like the quality, I don't care about the small difference in cost and more importantly I like the fact I have a GW in my area. I buy from them to support the store and the hobby and if I (and everyone else in the area) were to buy elsewhere, the store would end up closing down and then the same people would be moaning about the lack of a store in their area when they needed one.

Simples really.

huitzilopochtli
14-10-2011, 12:05
I'm happy to use GW paints but for brushes it's got to be Winsor and Newton. Yes, they're expensive at 6(ish) a brush but I've tried and there's no going back. The difference between GW brushes and real kolinsky sable brushes is about the same as the difference between the painting you will achieve with each brush. Considerable, in case that wasn't clear. :)

Bael
14-10-2011, 21:04
Other stuff? Airbrush from GW is a farce. I will say that I paid a lot more for my Iwata - but it's a REAL airbrush!

GW don't make an airbrush, they make a spraygun. You can get a similar spraygun from Badger that is a bit cheaper than the GW one (discount depends which country you live in), but it is a different tool to an airbrush. Trying to use a spraygun to get the same effect as you would get from an airbrush is like trying to paint the face of a 28mm model with a tank brush (and then complaining that you didn't get the same results as you did when you used a detail brush).

BFalcon
15-10-2011, 02:19
The only thing I don't get from GW is PVA. Everything else I buy exclusively from them, from paint to tools.

Why? Plain and simple, I like the quality, I don't care about the small difference in cost and more importantly I like the fact I have a GW in my area. I buy from them to support the store and the hobby and if I (and everyone else in the area) were to buy elsewhere, the store would end up closing down and then the same people would be moaning about the lack of a store in their area when they needed one.

Simples really.

I'd like the GW paints a lot more if they didn't keep drying up all the time... my old store, back in cornwall, used to have all the paints, but they'd be stored for quite a while (some of them, at least). That meant that some were pretty stiff when you bought them... by the time you'd used them a few times, you were looking at a serious risk of them drying up.

I use Vallejo paints now - the Game Colour are only 1.59 as opposed to 2.07 for Citadel and they have 5ml more paint too (17ml). I get mine from Maelstrom, since there's no hobby stores nearby, so that includes postage if I order over a tenner's worth. Quite honestly, getting 1 extra paint for every 3 pots I order is a lot of difference for me... over that tenner's worth, that adds up to less than 13 for 8 paints, as opposed to just over 16.50 for the same number of GW paints - and there's a lot less risk of them drying up (important for colours which don't get used as often).

The ironic thing is, I actually like pots over the bottles in some cases - being able to stir them makes them easier to get mixed up, for a start - the ability to take just a little more paint from the pot or lid is another good thing (useful if you're near the end of a job and you need just that little bit more paint on the palette). It's just the drying up and price gap issue that stops me.

I have a couple of GW brushes (along with several Vallejo pony and toray brushes), 2 pairs of GW side cutters (one blunt headed and one fine headed) both of which are reserved for cutting plastic only (rarely using the blunt-headed pair for metal if my cheap wire cutters are missing, like now :shifty:) and I have the very nice GW pin vice for drilling pilot holes (along with a bunch of cheap steel vices I got off ebay for expanding the hole, but they have no end to them, so are painful to use without a pilot hole and are thus used for specialist needs). My knife of preference, though, are scalpels (10A, 10 and 16) - cheap to replace the blades and sharp as you need them to be (nice and easy to heal the cuts too, being so sharp... :p).

So i'm not adverse to using GW tools... but I have to admit, I'd be wondering, looking at these tools, if there wasn't a cheaper alternative out there somewhere. I'd be looking at Gale Force Nine for a start, to see if they don't do something similar (or will do in a few months).

Rosstifer
15-10-2011, 13:14
My name is Ross Hillier-Jones and I own a Citadel Water Pot.




Strange, I thought that would make me feel better.

Sildani
18-10-2011, 15:59
How's that working for you? Is there really a benefit to keeping the brush hairs immersed?

ColShaw
18-10-2011, 16:06
Yknow, I used GW superglue for quite a while. I just bought a bottle of Loctite instead (much cheaper), and it works SO MUCH BETTER.

Sigh.

popisdead
18-10-2011, 20:44
Keep in mind the GW store for a 12 year old now stocks pretty much everything you need for the hobby.

So yes, vets tend to find cheaper, better, wiser alternatives (or maybe we've had them in our toolbox for 25 years) but if you are a new kid, you buy your shiny new Space Marine box, GW sells the entire range of products to help you get that on the table.

Rosstifer
22-10-2011, 13:37
How's that working for you? Is there really a benefit to keeping the brush hairs immersed?

Well, considering I mainly use Windsor and Newton series 7's, I don't want to risk leaving them in there.

It doesn't seem to have done much for my crappy GW drybrush :p

~Revenant~
22-10-2011, 15:44
Citadel paints on the whole are quality for what they are, I can't complain much about this.

The modelling tools are a total waste of money since better ones can be found cheap online or at local hobby shops.

Citadel brushes are utter garbage compared to winsor & newton artist sable watercolor 00-1 and cheaper, they will keep a better point etc, I can remember one time opening a citadel 3 pack of brushes and all the tips made them instant drybrushes that how bad they were.

For the record take a trip to your local art supply store, they will ( if they are not crap ) sell w&n drawing inks which are better and like the old citadel inks, these are dirt cheap and you get plenty of ink per glass bottle to last you ages.

I would also recommend trying some artist quality ( m.graham if your art store sells them the pigment load in these is obscene and the best paint on the market today ) acrylic pains, yes if you buy student junk that come in massive toothpaste tubes it won't be suitable but the artist grade is just as fine as citadel, including oil gouache on the other hand is a waste of time, but there is plenty of solid and better alternatives outside of their games and minis.

luchog
24-10-2011, 19:31
I would also recommend trying some artist quality ( m.graham if your art store sells them the pigment load in these is obscene and the best paint on the market today ) acrylic pains, yes if you buy student junk that come in massive toothpaste tubes it won't be suitable but the artist grade is just as fine as citadel, including oil gouache on the other hand is a waste of time, but there is plenty of solid and better alternatives outside of their games and minis.
Golden Artist's Colors also make some great stuff; and have a line of "high-load" acrylics that also have a fairly obscene pigment load; but a limited colour range. Their regular "fluid" type acrylics are more than adequate for most painting; and they have a line of airbrush colours that are better than anything from Createx. And they also have a lot of specialty products -- mediums, gels, grounds, etc. -- that are wonderful for modeling. Their fibre gel is superb for sculpting base and terrain effects.

Shadey
27-10-2011, 05:44
Online suppliers can post almost anything you will want for the hobby with the exception of some sheet materials and larger or dangerous goods. To me that is even more convenient than almost any local place I could go. I heartily suggest anyone who says "I can't get that stuff locally" to look up Waylands or Antenocitti's Workshop or Micromark. I suggest those as I have personal experience with them, all of it positive but I have no doubt there are plenty more stores out there with a great selection, good prices and excellent customer service.

Not only can you often find similar or better quality than GW stuff for cheaper, but sometimes you can find the EXACT same product for significantly cheaper. Greenstuff comes to mind.


This is probably the biggest chunk of what you pay for in any product that ain't made by a "no name brand" be it clothing or toy soldiers.

Not really. While there are a lot of products that do fit that mold, there are plenty that don't. There isn't a hard and fast rule about that, not even close.

FashaTheDog
27-10-2011, 06:06
Online suppliers can post almost anything you will want for the hobby with the exception of some sheet materials and larger or dangerous goods. To me that is even more convenient than almost any local place I could go. I heartily suggest anyone who says "I can't get that stuff locally" to look up Waylands or Antenocitti's Workshop or Micromark. I suggest those as I have personal experience with them, all of it positive but I have no doubt there are plenty more stores out there with a great selection, good prices and excellent customer service.

Not only can you often find similar or better quality than GW stuff for cheaper, but sometimes you can find the EXACT same product for significantly cheaper. Greenstuff comes to mind..

Don't shop from Micromark. They will send you catalogs and you will start buying all sorts of things from them and find that you cut into your minis budget because you needed that milling machine when all you intended to buy was liquid silicone for mold making. Heck, the only reason I haven't bought the mini lathe from them is that I already have a 2 ton lathe and will have a hard time justifying owning two lathes, even with the argument of mama lathe and baby lathe.

As for exact same products, the GW wire cutter is the Floracraft one they used to sell at Michael's for $2 and all they did was slap a sticker over it and mark it up to $20 (prices as of the GW one's release). You could even see the white and green design on the handle.