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SaschaKreiger
24-09-2011, 00:06
For playing a Rotstein (http://en.sturmkrieg.com/index.php?title=Rotstein) army, I'm planning on using Hammerhead tanks and using the Vanquisher rules. I'm also going to convert veterans to have Firewarrior weapons and armor. The fluff for the army would be that the equipment was captured by the badly understrength army after turning back the Tau at the Siege of Stahlberg (http://en.sturmkrieg.com/index.php?title=Siege_of_Stahlberg). I would slightly convert the tanks by adding a burst cannon to the central turret at the front to use heavy bolter rules for. For movement, I would use the landing gear and keep the normal Leman Russ movement rules. Same rules as the Vanquisher, just a different model. For a Siege of Stahlberg campaign, I would write special rules, but keep regular games simple.

What do you think? Does that work?

herbtarkel
24-09-2011, 00:11
I like it. Fits the bill. And every IG player who beats you can have the pleasure of knowing the Emperor's Light has been restored, and the Heretic purged! ;)

ehlijen
24-09-2011, 03:12
I wouldn't use a complete Hammerhead as a vanquisher. A hammerhead is a skimmer, and known to have a weaker hull than a leman russ.

Instead, I'd suggest using an actual leman russ and adding a Tau railgun to the turret, to count as the vanquisher cannon. That way you keep the salvage theme, but reinforce that this is battlefield salvage, not just looted vehicles that somehow became tougher because humans drive them now.

herbtarkel
24-09-2011, 03:18
I wouldn't use a complete Hammerhead as a vanquisher. A hammerhead is a skimmer, and known to have a weaker hull than a leman russ.

Instead, I'd suggest using an actual leman russ and adding a Tau railgun to the turret, to count as the vanquisher cannon.

I like the second idea too. But I think the first thought of using a Hammerhead, and making it look IG, is great. And adding all the Tau kit to Guardsmen, is what would make it all tie together. Think of the Beutepanzers in WWII. It makes sense. IG paint scheme - IG add-ons, and it's all good to go!

SaschaKreiger
24-09-2011, 05:08
I wouldn't use a complete Hammerhead as a vanquisher. A hammerhead is a skimmer, and known to have a weaker hull than a leman russ.

Instead, I'd suggest using an actual leman russ and adding a Tau railgun to the turret, to count as the vanquisher cannon. That way you keep the salvage theme, but reinforce that this is battlefield salvage, not just looted vehicles that somehow became tougher because humans drive them now.

I like your idea. Combining the tanks would be good, though I think having many Hammerheads and a lot of Tau stuff would help keep away the LOL-RANDOM-HAMMERHEAD! effect. I worry somewhat (fluffwise) about where they would find the Leman Russ hull, as Rotstein has multiple soldiers per rifle at the beginning of the Siege of Stahlberg.

Toughness would be a problem, but they'd also be slower because Humans were driving them.

ehlijen
24-09-2011, 08:15
Another option could be a chimera hull (much more common and even used by lot's of civilian vehicles) with a railgun and use it as a medusa with breaching shells.

Bunnahabhain
24-09-2011, 09:32
Much Kudos to the original poster for actually wanting to use the woefully underpowered Vanquisher rules, regardless of which hull they're on.

I don't think an intact looking hammerhead in a mainly Guard army would fit at all. Converting an imperial tank to take the Hammerhead turret, on the other hand, if done well, would be fine.

In real life, by far the most complex bit of a Tank is the turret. It was very common for tanks with badly damaged turrets to be converted into engineer vehicles, bridging units, etc, etc, as it was easier and more efficient on resources than trying to repair or replace the turret.
I can see the Imperium doing just the same, especially as many of the FW vehicles are described as 'Field improvisations using damaged vehicles'

Commotionpotion
24-09-2011, 09:57
In real life, by far the most complex bit of a Tank is the turret. It was very common for tanks with badly damaged turrets to be converted into engineer vehicles, bridging units, etc, etc, as it was easier and more efficient on resources than trying to repair or replace the turret.
I can see the Imperium doing just the same, especially as many of the FW vehicles are described as 'Field improvisations using damaged vehicles'

I don't know if the OP has access to the Imperial Armour 1 rules (although I think a free download of the updated stuff is still available on the FW website).

But following on from the idea above, it might also be possible to jury-rig the railgun barrel into either a turret-less Russ hull or a heavily uparmoured Chimera chassis and use the Destroyer Tank Hunter rules. In fact, don't the Railgun solid slug and Laser Destroyer have virtually identical stat-lines? Could make a fine 40K-style SU-85 or SU-100 - quite apt given SaschaKrieger's homage to Stalingrad :)

Bunnahabhain
24-09-2011, 10:05
Well, apart from the [Destroyer tank hunter's] lack of AP1, and the fact they're stuck on BS3, yes..

Kakapo42
24-09-2011, 10:06
Actually the Hammerhead has a targeting array, making it BS4

Chiron
24-09-2011, 11:51
Actually the Hammerhead has a targeting array, making it BS4

Unless its counts as Vanquisher in which case its BS3, unless you have Pask onboard, or its a Tuesday and the Moon is in the Ascendant

ehlijen
24-09-2011, 12:12
BS is not a stat of the gun though, but rather of the vehicle crew, and a downgrade could easily be explained as part of the guard retrofit in any case.

Clang
24-09-2011, 20:02
Fluffwise, if a damaged abandoned Hammerhead is looted in desperation by IG engineers, badly repaired (e.g. the antigrav tech is only working enough to get the Hammerhead a few inches into the air, dragging along the ground) and re-armed and 'improved' by bolting on extra armour etc, I guess it's not too silly that the resulting vehicle would have the stats of a Russ. (Such an abomination would also make a Tau engineer soil his trousers in horror, but that's unlikely to worry the IG.)

So long as the conversion was well done, I wouldn't object to playing against it. But in serious games, I can see some LoS arguments due to the Hammerhead's larger size - the advantages would mostly be for your opponent, but it's something to keep in mind for any counts-as conversion.

SaschaKreiger
25-09-2011, 02:55
Fluffwise, if a damaged abandoned Hammerhead is looted in desperation by IG engineers, badly repaired (e.g. the antigrav tech is only working enough to get the Hammerhead a few inches into the air, dragging along the ground) and re-armed and 'improved' by bolting on extra armour etc, I guess it's not too silly that the resulting vehicle would have the stats of a Russ. (Such an abomination would also make a Tau engineer soil his trousers in horror, but that's unlikely to worry the IG.)

So long as the conversion was well done, I wouldn't object to playing against it. But in serious games, I can see some LoS arguments due to the Hammerhead's larger size - the advantages would mostly be for your opponent, but it's something to keep in mind for any counts-as conversion.

Do you think using plasticard and painting rivets around the edges would be a good way of creating quickly added extra armor?

Clang
25-09-2011, 04:20
Yup, that's the sort of thing, quite orky really. :) Your troops are desperate for vehicles, have barely managed to get the damaged Tau vehicles running but think them under-armoured, so have bolted and welded on any spare armour plates they can find (probably damaging the Tau vehicles even further).

SaschaKreiger
25-09-2011, 06:45
It would all have to happen before the Inquisition goes WHAT?!!! For the single battle that no one would be around for, (except for the defenders of the city) no one would notice. The part of the Inquisition that Sturmkrieg works with is Ordo Malleus. I'm not sure if they're any different towards xenos, though I do wonder after seeing the space monkeys. This is more fluff then conversion. Most likely explanation for this is that no one is around to say "no!"