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Deaceased
24-09-2011, 19:41
Ok, so I've been looking around for a new army to start and I'm torn in between Chaos space marines, or Imperial Guard. I am a fair painter, no Golden Daemon winner by any means but I'm probably one level above table top quality. I've own Vanilla Space Marines, and Dark Eldar, both of which are sitting around 2,000 points. I've gotten second place in a local tourny with my SM, and have yet to lose with my DE so I will humbly say i'm fairly skilled with both my armies.
My list of pros and cons for both IMO:

***If i choose IG i will be converting to a traitor army of some sort***

CSM Pro:
The standard marines look awesome, as do the demons
many opportunities for conversions
Can play an army to any of the four Chaos gods with models dedicated to each god
May get an update in the near future

CSM Con:
The codex has said to not do the range much justice
seemingly few options from what i can see on the GW-site

IG pro:
Amazing model range, though could be difficult to convert
Already a 'solid' codex
Many options (especially for tanks)

IG con:
No codex update on the horizon
Many expensive tanks


Please help and provide feed back, feel free to add to any of my lists, Thank you all

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
24-09-2011, 21:36
Owning 2 IG armies with an urge and plenty of ideas for at least 3 or 4 more... I would say go IG. Not that I am biased or anything.

Having played IG since 3rd edition, you should never base your decision around the relative power of a codex. That will rise and fall through editions.

I have also had a huge urge to do a traitor guard army using the foregorld Vrak's renegade sprues and a CSM: Wordbearer army to go with it.

The guard list is so flexible and there are so many modeling oppurtunities. For example you can use the conscripts to represent cultists (kitbash Empire flagellents and cadians), you could use penal legion to represent beastmen (kitbash gors or ungors with Cadians or catachans). The Vraks renegade upgrade spreads from FW are not that expensive and would be great for standard "guardsmen". I've also had ideas for creating some kind of daemon-engine walker using the sentinal w/plasma cannon rules.

I would say why not do both? I don't know if FW still has some of the renegade list pdf's available for download, but you could use that to use both. Basically Guard are your troops and CSM are your elite in any of the 3.

As you expand, you can get enough to do a full army of guard or CSM on their own.

Fawful
24-09-2011, 21:50
I really recommend taking a look at one of the FW renegade lists as they allow you to run chaos space marines (as elites) alongside a traitor army.

The first siege of vraks book has a generic list (which has been superseded by the faq which you can download for free here (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA5_RH.pdf)) which allows you to field the alpha legion or any other generic csm force.
The second book on Vraks focusses on the traitor guardsmen of Khorne and allows you to field beastmen and bezherkers amongst others.
The third list is Nurgle themed and has acces to plague marines, plague ogryns, zombies and other deceased and decaying stuff.

They are somewhat less competitive than the regular IG codex since they are based on the previous edition but they allow for a lot of flavour in your army. And you could always expend your space marines in to a full fledged army later on.

Inquisitor Kallus
24-09-2011, 22:08
I agree with Fawful, Traitor Guard are awesome. You can use the FW lists or even just use the Guard codex and convert them.

susu.exp
24-09-2011, 22:11
CSM Con:
The codex has said to not do the range much justice
seemingly few options from what i can see on the GW-site

CSM:
3-4 Ordinary HQs, 7 Unique. (Greater Deamon is a HQ choice but doesnīt take a slot)
4 Elite
5-6 Troops
2 FA
6 HS
Not too shabby, Iīd say.

IG has:
3-5 Ordinary HQs. 5 Unique. (Priests and Techpriests are HQ choices but donīt take a slot).
4 Elite. 1 Unique.
3 Troops (though admittedly one is very versatile)
5 FA, 1 unique.
5 HS.

If you donīt stick to mono-god lists itīs about even, unless you want to optimize your list. The Chaos codex isnīt all that bad, though some people do complain about it a lot, mainly because the previous one had enormous amounts of options. The current one merely has a decent number of them...


IG con:
No codex update on the horizon

Not a negative, given the IG codex is very strong and some units are more likely to get nerfed in the next version.

Chem-Dog
24-09-2011, 23:56
CSM Pro:
The standard marines look awesome, as do the demons
many opportunities for conversions.

I'd argue, this is as much of a reason to pick an army as one would ever need.


Can play an army to any of the four Chaos gods with models dedicated to each god

Myeah....real men pick a god and run with it ;)


May get an update in the near future

The Primordial Annihilator knows it's needed BUT it must be said, an impending Codex update (however un-confirmed) can be a reason to hold off on an army.
New rules could see units you like become anything on the sliding scale of value from utterly essential to totally pointless.
New Codex means Nu-Models. And your freshly finished wallet slaying army could, all of a sudden, look like last season's throwbacks. More of an issue to some than it is to others it can be a real pain in the backside to have converted models for a unit that don't exist (usually at great expense) only to see a GW email in your inbox a week later showing you a snazzy new model range that looks a gajillion times better than your models and actually works out a good deal cheaper too.


CSM Con:
The codex has said to not do the range much justice
seemingly few options from what i can see on the GW-site

It's a little bit of a Duplo army in a game full of Technic armies yeah. But given the way recent Power Armour related Codexes have developed and the existing scope for exploration within what's already been established in the Chaos arena, Chaos SM's could easily rival the recent Dark Eldar releases in scale without exhausting the supply of concepts OR even treading into Legion/God specific forces.




IG pro:
Amazing model range, though could be difficult to convert

Tish and pish! head thee down here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=146) and browse arround to see what wonders can be produced with a little ingenuity, a certain level of dedication, a small portion of madness and a sufficiently impressive bitzbox.

There's a massive array of plastic humans in the GW stable alone, if you can work out a cunning or impressive way of merging two or more of those kits that's more than enough to build a Traitor Guard army.


Already a 'solid' codex
Many options (especially for tanks)

Aye, that much is true.


IG con:
No codex update on the horizon

As it's already pretty solid, it's not too much of an issue really, is it?


Many expensive tanks

You don't actually have to buy lots. Or any.
Traitor guard give you licence to kitbash and scratch-build anything you can come up with in an effort to distance your army from the Imperial Guard. ;)

That's what I think anyway. :)

Deaceased
25-09-2011, 02:58
So I picked up a box of Guardsmen today, just to start building and converting. I'm in the process of shaving off all the aquilas,
Thank you everyone for the replies, and right now I'm very interested in doing a Renegade army from the FW (Thanks fawful for the link)

I will probably do the renegade list till the new CSM book then branch of my CSM for that book, and the IG portion to go along with the IG codex.

and now i have the tough choice of choosing a God to follow....

FashaTheDog
25-09-2011, 03:07
I say that you paint up the Chaos Marines that will herd your militia into battle as Iron Warriors. You can then turn the artillery from Renegades and Heretics into Daemon artillery where the crew are holding it down with spiked chains just like in Storm of Iron. Servants of Slaughter (Imperial Armor 6) is a fun list as close combat oriented guard and indiscriminate fire is always a hoot, but you can make that a branch off of your primary if you begin with the generic pdf list. The same applies to Servants of decay from Imperial Armor 7.