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malika
26-09-2011, 19:36
I was wondering if this is a "common" thing in the 40k universe. I'm also looking for examples regarding this to maybe shed some light on this custom.

I know the following examples, if there are more, please let me know!

Ruven (sp?): Night Lords sorcerer who joined the Black Legion - Soul Hunter

Variel: Astral Claws apothecary who joined the Night Lords - Blood Reaver

Zhufor: Storm Lords sergeant who was brainwashed by the World Eaters into their ranks - Imperial Armour 7

Ardaric Vaanes: Raven Guard marine who first joined the Red Corsairs and then the Iron Warriors - The Skull Harvest

Anybody got more examples? And maybe also the stories around them. :)

Okuto
26-09-2011, 20:29
Only with chaos marines...no self respecting loyalist would try to "transfer" to another chapter

Tay051173096
26-09-2011, 20:33
Unless the chapter got destroyed i.e. emporaaaas sythes ( one marine with the chapter banner).

Things have to be very bad to warrant such a thing

or

Building a new chapter from remains ater nids...

malika
26-09-2011, 20:33
What about officers and such from older chapters to newly founded ones? I could imagine "parent" Chapters providing marines/officers for new successors.

Another example of marines joining other chapters would be the Tiger Claws who got absorbed into the Astral Claws

Askil the Undecided
26-09-2011, 20:38
Among loyalists it only happens between chapters sharing the same primarch's gene-heritage and even then only in extreme circumstances.

The most common of these is Veterans being split off to form the training Cadre and elite of a newly founded chapter.

spetswalshe
26-09-2011, 20:40
Chaos Legions are, these days, just loosely organised gangs and warband coalitions. Joining one is simply a case of finding them and proving that the Legion will be stronger with you in it - probably by killing someone and taking his place. Of course, there will be plenty that are closed for recruitment, but if you take a more realistic view, those ones will probably have died off by now. Renegades - loyalists who go rogue - would probably end up in a Chaos Chapter simply because they're otherwise unlikely to survive; you need those bonds of loyalty, however loose. The ones who didn't would be joining pirate groups or armies like the Red Corsairs and Black Legion.

Actually going from one loyalist Chapter to another probably won't happen. There may be some exceptional circumstances, but they're entirely independent from each other and probably going to be rightly suspicious of anyone who did want to join; Chaos spies are everywhere and no loyalist would ever abandon their Chapter in favour of another.

And trying to go from a Chaos Chapter to Loyalist is just the shortest route to the Emperor's Mercy. There was a story of a sorcerer from the Black Legion who wanted to go back to loyalist, and while they were just about willing to use him as a suicide weapon it was pretty clear that it wasn't going to happen.


What about officers and such from older chapters to newly founded ones? I could imagine "parent" Chapters providing marines/officers for new successors.

This does happen; the new chapter will need experienced Marines in officer and NCO roles to show them the ropes, though obviously they'll be long dead before the Chapter hits 200 years old or so. You can imagine that most of the Marines in this scenario aren't pleased with the assignment, though naturally they're not going to complain about it like some kind of sissy human.

Chem-Dog
26-09-2011, 22:36
One example of a temporary "transfer" spings to mind, Several of the Slamanders "Firedrakes" formed an honour-guard for Tycho when he finally fell on Armageddon and formed an escort for him back to Baal. I can imagine them getting involved in any scraps that occured along the way.
Sorry I can't cite any sources, It was in the wrap-up stuff for Armag III somewhere.
With individuals an honour debt or some kind of pennance could be by far the easiest way of explaining it.

There some (pseudo) fluff in the Apoc book about a chapter who regularly receives trainees from other chapters (I think for THawk or Landspeeder driving lessons), again not a permanent secondment (if that's even the right term) but certainly enough to see different coloured suits of armour in and around a Chapter's HQ.

Lastly there's the "decimated brotherhood" thing Tay<somenumbers> mentioned, I can see a severely battered chapter being attached to a sufficiently sturdy sponsor chapter while they got back on their feet.
If you look at the inside back cover of the Black Templars codex, there's a little stellar disposition map of the Black Templars forces, very near Rynn's world is a tantalisingly titled (and incredibly large given the size of other BT's outfits on the map) "Crusade of Brotherhood". Looks like maybe the Black Templars swooped in to assist their second founding bretheren, even if they were just picking up the slack and giving Pedro and his boys some breathing space.

Isn't there a constant Vigil of astartes forces at the site of the "World Engine" incident in memorial of the Astral Knight's sacrifice? I could see other such Vigils existing and consequently being called upon to go to war under a united banner with representatives from each concerned chapter fighting together towards a common goal.

The last unsourced example I can think of may have been Medusa V, pretty sure there was a constant standing guard of "Ultramarines" there, at least Chapters who were once part of the Ultramarines Legion.

Maybe a bit vague and a bit tangential, but hopefully of some use. :)

Inquisitor Redclaw
26-09-2011, 22:51
There is the Mentor Legion which just go on detachment to ig &sm forces to learn from and also.....well "mentor" them imagine that :rolleyes: :p

In the HH novel ATS its mentioned that TS senior captains had to go and learn from the other legions with Ahriman serving with the word bearers.

Brother Handro
26-09-2011, 23:04
Argh ninja'd on the Mentor Legion, but on the HH theme, the Word Bearers loaned out their Chaplains to spread the Lodges and foster 'understandings' with brother Legions, according to The First Heretic.

Joewrightgm
27-09-2011, 01:41
Ask the Astral Claws how reintegrating the Tiger Claws turned out for them . . . :P

pyrosocial
27-09-2011, 03:12
I've been told that video games are not good fluff to go on, but here is an example for you.

Scout Sargeant Cyrus, currently of the Blood Ravens Chapter.

"A man of few words, and has a fearsome reputation. His methods, while highly unpopular amongst the Battle Brothers, have earned them countless victories, most notably during the Genestealer outbreak on Victoria Primus. It is revealed part-way through the campaign that he has fought the Tyranids before, during his time in the Deathwatch. He also fought in the Kaurava campaign under Brother-Captain Indrick Boreale, and reveals that the campaign went horribly wrong for the Blood Ravens."

LordOfTheFuzz
27-09-2011, 03:28
I've been told that video games are not good fluff to go on, but here is an example for you.

Scout Sargeant Cyrus, currently of the Blood Ravens Chapter.

"A man of few words, and has a fearsome reputation. His methods, while highly unpopular amongst the Battle Brothers, have earned them countless victories, most notably during the Genestealer outbreak on Victoria Primus. It is revealed part-way through the campaign that he has fought the Tyranids before, during his time in the Deathwatch. He also fought in the Kaurava campaign under Brother-Captain Indrick Boreale, and reveals that the campaign went horribly wrong for the Blood Ravens."

Deathwatch is not a chapter. It is formed of marines on temporary detachment from Codex chapters to the Ordo Xenos. When their service with the Deathwatch is over, they return to their chapter.

chromedog
27-09-2011, 05:28
When their ACTIVE terms with the Deathwatch are over, they return to their home chapters.
They are permitted to wear their DW pauldron and can be asked to return (it's more of a reserve re-activation clause than a retirement from DW)

unwanted
27-09-2011, 08:13
I'd imagine it's a temporary thing amongst the Loyalists, perhaps if one Chapter of a combined crusade suffered a disproportionate number of casualties/lost their own craft, they'd join their brethren until such a time where they can return to their parent Chapter.

jareddm3
27-09-2011, 15:17
There are permanent attachments to the Deathwatch that can occur in one of two ways.

A marine can request to remain with the Deathwatch long-term. Usually this isn't the case as it could be seen as an offense to the parent chapter. This might also be done if there's some sort of political fallout awaiting the marine if he were to return.

The other method is through being a Black Shield. These are marines who have painted their chapter symbol over with black and approach a Deathwatch fortress requesting sanctuary. They are never questioned about their past, though I'd imagine there's some sort of warp corruption screening that goes on. Rumors about the Black Shields say they could be from a destroyed chapter, one of the Fallen, or from a renegade chapter trying to repent.

Sai-Lauren
27-09-2011, 16:29
Black Shields could also potentially be exiles - those who've transgressed against the chapter and been thrown out, or have become essentially Ronin through events on the battlefield (rest of the force lost, only one or two survivors), or even as a political move to deflect any potential criticism for certain necessary actions away from the chapter onto those individuals, whilst quietly approving of their mission.

Obviously, most chapters wouldn't (I can't see the Dark Angels allowing it for example ;)), but some (Space Wolves with Ragnar in the Wolfblade isn't too far off) might do it to allow the Marine to gain their redemption (almost certainly posthumously).

And if they've been genuinely thrown out, they wouldn't have any equipment from the chapter.

Otherwise, some Marines might go on short term secondment to a chapter for some reason (if the Chapter has no experience with a particular enemy, for example), but they'd never actually transfer, and would still obey their own chapters observances.

The only way loyalists would transfer IMO is as the first members of a new chapter, as Askil mentioned.

thermopuke
28-09-2011, 19:15
I think it's mentioned in C:SM that temporary transfers between chapters of the same gene stock occur with the aim of sharing skills, thunderhawk pilots are talked about and that Ultra special scout sergeant has something like that in his background blurb.

Not got the 'dex on me so can't provide references.

Lisiecki
28-09-2011, 22:55
The ONLY way this happens with loyalist martians is with the founding of a new chapter. The First Comp of a chapter goes off and gets a new name and cool outfits.

If all of the Blood Drinkers were killed off but one, that Blood Drinker may go hang out with the Blood Angels, and even accept orders from the Blood Angels, but he would still be a Blood Drinker, not a Blood Angel.


I was wondering if this is a "common" thing in the 40k universe. I'm also looking for examples regarding this to maybe shed some light on this custom.

shadowhawk2008
29-09-2011, 03:55
Who said anything about the First Company being the one that gets reduced?

Sai-Lauren
29-09-2011, 08:19
Agreed, the first company is probably the last group a chapter wants to lose.

At best, a single company might lose 2-3 Marines from their fighting strength.

malika
29-09-2011, 08:34
Hmm, I was generally more interested on Chaos Space Marines (be it renegades or from the old Legions) joining up with the other Legions, especially the Black Legion. Is there more info on that?