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View Full Version : Outrunners vs. handgunners



blizzpwn
27-09-2011, 17:38
What do you people think of handgunners as opposed to Outrides. Outriders get 3 shots with a -1 to hit penalty, effectively lowering their BS to 3 (the same as the handgunners), and cost 21 pts a piece. For an equivalent number of shots from handgunners you need 3 guys, which costs 24 points. Besides this obvious superiority outriders are also armoured better and have mounts.

There is the argument that 3 handgunners have 3 wounds and an outrider only one, but in the event that these shooters get into combat they will likely lose no matter what. Furthermore, the aforementioned improved armour save and the attack of the mount may very well bet better in hand-to-hand. If you focus on shooting and staying out of combat aren't the outriders a far superior choice? And even if you get into combat the argument could be made that they are equal effectiveness.

Am i missing something or is there actually a point to taking handgunners?

Malorian
27-09-2011, 18:02
The wounds is a big thing. It's not just combat, it's also that a stray magic missile can cripple an outrider unit while only doing minimum damage to a handgunner unit.

The bigger question should be why take either when you could just take a mortar?...

Askari
27-09-2011, 18:09
Am i missing something or is there actually a point to taking handgunners?

They're Core? They can be detachments?

Though as Malorian says, a Mortar or 3 is better than both.

metalloveman
27-09-2011, 22:12
I'm no math hammer expert, but wouldn't a mortar be less points efficent against a T5 monster like a hydra or some super heavy cav/eqivilent like mournfangs than lots of bullets?

depends on how much you have in core, If you have filled your requirment I'd say take the outriders in most situations the vanguard move lets you compensant for the short range or redeploy if your opponet put a counter across the board.

also hochland rifles are a great asset for handgunner units, picking out that archmage from his bunker is pretty handy.

Askari
28-09-2011, 05:16
I'm no math hammer expert, but wouldn't a mortar be less points efficent against a T5 monster like a hydra or some super heavy cav/eqivilent like mournfangs than lots of bullets?


That's what Great Cannons are for... That said even the central hole of the Mortar can do some serious damage to a Hydra (assuming no Regen/Failed Regen).

malladin.ben
28-09-2011, 05:28
That's what Great Cannons are for... That said even the central hole of the Mortar can do some serious damage to a Hydra (assuming no Regen/Failed Regen).

You could cast the flaming attacks spell on a mortar (or cannon for that matter) to cancel regen.

rocdocta
28-09-2011, 05:42
handgunners in front of a warmachine. more wounds.

ihavetoomuchminis
28-09-2011, 07:57
For me, the only reason to take outriders instead of handgunners is to have 2 Hochland rifles at short range with BS5 in the first turn. I wish they had a minimum unit size of 3 :D

Yowzo
28-09-2011, 08:48
also hochland rifles are a great asset for handgunner units, picking out that archmage from his bunker is pretty handy.

This.

You get a 10-man handgunner unit with hochland rifle cheaper than a hellblaster volley gun, and they're core troops.

Tuttivillus
28-09-2011, 18:10
And one more thing : since outriders are mounted they can see over infantry, which gives you fantastic possibilities, for example, in defence they can hit from behind your infantry line and in attack they can hit units hidden behind enemy lines, like those skaven weapon teams.

Malorian
28-09-2011, 18:55
And one more thing : since outriders are mounted they can see over infantry, which gives you fantastic possibilities, for example, in defence they can hit from behind your infantry line and in attack they can hit units hidden behind enemy lines, like those skaven weapon teams.

Well you aren't that high up... chances are you are still going to be at -2 from shooting through a unit.

Again you are better off with either the mortar or the cannon and looking to his the unit AND the weapon team.

rocdocta
29-09-2011, 02:53
Oh a good reason for cav over infatry shooters is the flexibility to use them as bait if required. Expensive yes, but could save a more important and game winning option.