PDA

View Full Version : Mandrakes, Worth It



salim786
27-09-2011, 19:18
I am getting tempted to get 10x mandrakes:evilgrin: but Im not sure it's worth it:eek::wtf:. It really is boosting me up that it has infiltrat makes me even more tempted.

SUGGESTIONS would really help>?

Carras
27-09-2011, 19:33
From a competative POV they aren't worth it. They get better as soon as they receive their first pain token, but when infiltrating they won't get it as they'll be shot to pieces as soon as your enemy can see them and if you put a haemonculus in the squad they can shoot right away but can't infiltrate anymore. One way they'll just die and the other your enemy is going to ignore them. Either way they probably won't do much. Which is a shame since I think that they look really cool...

Ozendorph
27-09-2011, 19:33
Honestly I haven't seen them perform very well. However, I've heard they work nicely at 5-6 models as outflankers targeting devastators, heavy weapon teams and the like.

enygma7
27-09-2011, 19:41
They are certainly considered one of the few "weak" options in the codex. I don't play dark eldar but I remember thinking they looked interesting if assigned to outflanking at the start of the game. Then you dump a webway portal somewhere inthe middle of the board. I may be wrong but I seem to remember the mandrakes can then choose to come on via the portal or via outflank. That would make it easy to assault a unit of your choice (such as small weak unit or a heavy weapons squad) and destroy it quickly, thus gaining a pain token. After that, their groovy.

salim786
27-09-2011, 19:41
I mean they could always infiltrate to cover and anyone that comes near they pounce. Would that be a good way to use them

salim786
27-09-2011, 19:42
Recap : What do you mean outflank?

Archon Deloth Vyrr
27-09-2011, 19:42
Once they get their first token they become decent. Prior to that they are hard pressed to do anything.

salim786
27-09-2011, 19:42
The hard bit really is getting that pain token, I suppose. Plus they cant take transport...

loveless
27-09-2011, 19:45
They're a unit that looks like they should be in melee...but they're actually a bit better at shooting once they have a pain token.

They're fun models (I use them for Darklings in an RPG), but I can't justify them in the Dark Eldar army. Let's face it, the Elite choices are packed with options and the Mandrakes are likely at the bottom of the pile.

The good news is that they're better than the Decapitator :shifty:

Chem-Dog
27-09-2011, 19:49
The one time I've seen them in play, they could have done really well.

They outflanked an ork horde very near a big gunz battery, easy Pain-token FNP Balefire goodness abound.

Or would have been, had the player not forgot to assault them, and the Ork Player refused to allow a little time rewind to accomodate. Needless to say they were butchered in short order after that.


My evaluation of them is they are incredibly situation, prone to the hazards inherrent in any reserve force and the, marginal (but nonetheless annoying) chance of showing up on the wrong side of the table.
But when it goes off right, that first back-end-hugging unit should allow them to cause all sorts of mischief.

It occurs to me they'd benefit from being joined by a model who brings a pain token, Kheradurahk is the obvious choice, but given that he sufferes from the same variable arrival schedule, can be tricky to pull off. But should they arrive on the same turn (or he a little later) I'd deffinitely consider using his method of arrival to join and consequently boost them rather than simply menacing an enemy model/unit.

Lord Damocles
27-09-2011, 20:03
They're the only Dark Eldar unit which can outflank.
So that's what they ought to be used for.

Useful for picking on soft targets and tying up units hiding in back corners. Definately not a front line unit.



EDIT: Evidently Mandrakes are stealthy enough to have stolen the question mark from the thread title...

Radium
27-09-2011, 20:10
I love my mandrakes, mostly because they tend to do a LOT more than people expect them to. And once they get their first pain token (ie: Cronos) they're pretty awesome at shooting stuff as well as being a very nice support unit in CC.

Elenneth89
27-09-2011, 20:11
when i'll start DE i'll buy 5 of them and put in the list even if they aren't powerful... i love the models!^^

salim786
27-09-2011, 20:27
First of all what is outflank!?!?

Lord Damocles
27-09-2011, 20:32
Rulebook, pg.94.

Archon Deloth Vyrr
27-09-2011, 20:48
They should be a Troops or Fast Attack choice, being Elites means they already compete for slots with units I never leave home without (Blaster-borne)

AngelofSorrow
27-09-2011, 20:49
I play in a semi competitive environment and I don't go anywhere without my unit of 9.
I run an assault heavy foot army and anything to draw fire for a turn or 2 is great for me.

If the situation warrants I will leave them in or just outside my deployment zone if I know the enemy will come to me. Its all in how you use them and how your opponent perceives them.

In short, use them you might be surprised.

salim786
27-09-2011, 21:08
Would this be good tatics:
Infiltrate them right near opposition's base in cover so they cant get shot at. At most of the time they wont have nades so they cant charge. So anything that passes their cover assault then once i have killed a unit, get back into cover and start shooting and pinning while the rest of my army advances
So all I am doing is using them to gain killpoints and to cause a distraction while my of skimmers advances
good tatics?:eyebrows:

Prodigalson
27-09-2011, 21:12
I can't understand why anyone thinks they are competitive for their points cost.

They aren't good at shooting (even with the pain token... 20 shots, 14 hits, 7 wounds total on marines). In HTH they have a 5++ save, which isn't that great.

They are probably the worst unit in the book. They should have been rending, or come with the gun standard, and have a sergeant upgrade that mattered.

Vidzero
27-09-2011, 21:22
Honestly I haven't seen them perform very well. However, I've heard they work nicely at 5-6 models as outflankers targeting devastators, heavy weapon teams and the like.

This is the correct way to use them and they are worth it in that capacity seeing as they are so cheap and devestator squads are usually quite expensive.

The fact that they take up an elites slot is a shame, DE have so many great elites options and there are only 3 slots available usually.

I think the relatively cheap points cost and high disruption potential certain makes them worth it if you are a cunning general.

Nurgling Chieftain
27-09-2011, 22:03
It occurs to me they'd benefit from being joined by a model who brings a pain token, Kheradurahk is the obvious choice...If Kheradruakh could join them - and join them from the start - it would make both choices significantly less terrible. ...But he can't. :o

orz192
27-09-2011, 22:07
This thread should have gone in the tactics forum.

Chem-Dog
27-09-2011, 23:41
If Kheradruakh could join them - and join them from the start - it would make both choices significantly less terrible. ...But he can't. :o

Of course, I forget he's not an IC. Ignore everything i said about him before....:shifty:



Stupid GW making single named individuals that aren't IC's....

Cosmic_Girl
28-09-2011, 00:18
10 Infiltrated into cover ahead of the main army, turn 1 haemonculus on raider moves up, leaves his transport and joins them, unlocking baleblast and drops a webway portal. Now you've got 10 FNP, baleblast activated, stealth in cover mandrakes with an agoniser wielding Haemonculus babysitting your webway portal waiting for talos/foot wyches/incubi etc... to emerge. It's definately not the strongest DE play, but it's all I've got. And yeah, I think this should be a tactica thread.

Cosmic.

Carlosophy
28-09-2011, 08:30
The hard bit really is getting that pain token, I suppose. Plus they cant take transport...

Mandrakes are actually a shooty unit, not an assault one. Getting the most out of them is tricky, but quite fun.

Take a Haemonculus with a Hexrifle and Webway Portal and mount him in a Venom on his own and deploy him as far forward as you can without being in the open. Infiltrate your Mandrakes within 14" of the Venom.

First turn speed the venom up to the mandrakes and have the Haemonculus disembark and join the Mandrakes. This gives them their pain token, at which point you can let rip with the Mandrakes and the Hexrifle. The Mandrakes should then provide the Haemonculus with enough support (3+ Cover and FnP) so he can deploy the webway portal, at which point the Mandrakes can wander off as you please.

solkan
28-09-2011, 10:44
The real question is: How many points would you be willing to pay to get the unit to start with one pain token? I think people would be willing to pay a fair amount for that.

I still have no idea how Kheradruakh is supposed to be useful. :(

UberBeast
28-09-2011, 16:27
I've used Mandrakes is nearly every game I've played with DE, and I can't say that I've found a good use for them yet.

IMO they suffer from too many special rules without any clear focus.

Their infiltrate and outflank special rules are badly outclassed by the speed of the rest of the DE army. Their MoveTC ability is weakened by their lack of grenades. Their shooting attack is mediocre and needs a pain token to unlock which they will either have to earn with the also mediocre CC abilties or by spending even more points to bring a haemonculi along negating some of their special rules to start with the unit or having to play all sorts of situational mobility issues that make you wonder why you didn't just take something else.

I suspect their best quality is their stealth save, which can really take the steam out of enemy shooting if you can keep them in cover. Unfortunately because they aren't a scoring unit, and their threat level is so weak the only time your opponent will really be forced to shoot them is when they somehow threaten an objective and you opponent doesn't have any CC units to clear them out. Even in this case, I've found that most of my opponents carry a flamer template around.

In the last five or so games I've taken them my opponents have simply learned to ignore them and their impact has been fairly low to non-existant.

Nazguire
28-09-2011, 16:28
I always saw the Mandrakes as exceptionally opponent specific. Against Space Marines they are sorta pointless. They probably wouldn't give out enough wounds to shut down the unit (most likely Devastators or a Combat Squad) and would get dominated in turn.

Against Tau or Imperial Guard, they could mess up some units seriously, with their Balefire after destroying a heavy weapon squad, or a small Fire Warrior team.

Against Necrons or other heavy armoured opponents, pointless.

salim786
28-09-2011, 17:50
So. I think the overall conclusion is that they are good for space marines when they are outflanking and can possibly take a elite squad down if they are used right. So would 10 mandrakes be a good number or is 5-6 more better? I guess they are a complicated squad to use. If not used right which in this case would probably me. But also are you saying mandrakes would be good in wwp with 2x hamies? Because if you are I would love to hear some more tatic's as well as commenting on my wwp whether mandrakes belong there