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Brother Garrod
28-09-2011, 21:08
Not sure if this is the right place for this , but can anyone confirm wether or not the legion version of the dread can be equipped with everything its weakling loyalist counterpart can ?

LonelyPath
28-09-2011, 22:42
Since right now it seems to be playtest rules and that entry says CSM can also take them then I'd say they've got access to everything the Imperium has for that kit. For the time being at least.

Brother Garrod
28-09-2011, 22:54
It's not the playtesting rules im questioning , its the entry in 2nd ed. of imperial armour apocalypse

LonelyPath
28-09-2011, 22:57
Ah, I wasn't aware it was in that book.

baphomael
29-09-2011, 01:18
I've not seen the new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book. The playtest rules suggested that those rules could be used as-is by chaos armies. However, if the contemptor profile in the new book is under an 'imperial' section, and not under a 'chaos' section, then I'd assume its not ok. If its not listed under a specific 'faction', then I suppose it'd be an opponents consent situation.

By your question, I assume the profile differs from the playtest version in that it doesnt say the rules are equally applicable to chaos marine armies, then?

Baaltor
29-09-2011, 01:34
I've not seen the new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book. The playtest rules suggested that those rules could be used as-is by chaos armies. However, if the contemptor profile in the new book is under an 'imperial' section, and not under a 'chaos' section, then I'd assume its not ok. If its not listed under a specific 'faction', then I suppose it'd be an opponents consent situation.

By your question, I assume the profile differs from the playtest version in that it doesnt say the rules are equally applicable to chaos marine armies, then?

If I recall correctly, one of the first apocalypse books said something to the effect that CSM could use any formations or units loyalists can. By that ruling, it's alright. The OP is asking whether or not the Chaos dreadnaught has options for all the options as the loyalist version has. Not that there is both a "chaos" entry as well as a regular entry. Other SM flavours exist, such as the Spacewolf, Blood Angel and Mortis variants.

A view of the contents can be found here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL-ARMOUR-APOCALYPSE-SECOND-EDITION.html

To ansswer the OP's question: I have not seen the rules yet, but I have heard it said on 4chan that the entry contains all the vanilla options, as well as options for marks, and a trio of extra weapons. Again second hand info on a second edition. :P

I hope someone here can definitively answer your question, I'd like to know too.

All Cing Eye
29-09-2011, 03:50
Well we know it can be armed with a 2L Heavy Bolter and Fist since the conversion has those weapons.

I imagine if you stick to the basic weapons you'll be fine. But prolly no Mortis pattern, and maybe no Conversion Beamers.

Nighthawke
29-09-2011, 09:35
i have the book right here so i shall find out for you, it looks about the same but has some very different rules. the big weapons are the same except the assultcannon which is a butcher cannon with new rules. in its hands it can have twin linked bolt gun, heavy flamer, plasma blaster and a soul burner which the loyalists do not get, can also take marks :O

AmKhaibitu
29-09-2011, 11:11
Nighthawke, no sonic weapons?

Brother Garrod
29-09-2011, 17:09
thanks , least i know i can safely pick up the assault cannon and be actually able to use it

MajorWesJanson
01-10-2011, 04:31
Nighthawke, no sonic weapons?

Probably not, this is a generic unmarked one. Maybe 1 for each god later?

Eighties-Matt
01-10-2011, 12:41
Here you go

Loyalist Contemptor Weapons ------- Can Chaos have it?
TL Heavy Bolter ----------------------------Yes
Multi-Melta ---------------------------------Yes
TL Heavy Flamer ---------------------------Yes
TL Autocannon -----------------------------Yes
Plasma Cannon -----------------------------Yes
Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon -----No, has Butcher Cannon instead
TL Lascannon -------------------------------Yes
Heavy Conversion Beamer --------------------Yes
DCCW w/ Storm Bolter ---------------Yes, has TL Bolter instead
Chainfist w/ Storm Bolter -------------Yes, has TL Bolter instead

Can replace Storm Bolter with:
Heavy Flamer --------------------------------Yes
Plasma Blaster -------------------------------Yes
Graviton Gun -----------------------No, has Soulburner instead

Can also have:

Cyclone Missile Launcher -----------No, has Havoc Launcher instead

They each have their advantages, and while I'm jealous of the Loyalists fancy assault cannon, I reckon the Chaos one is better, though I may just be biased.

Hope this helped.

Garanaul the Black
01-10-2011, 12:58
I'm not familiar with the Butcher Cannon or the Plasma Blaster, are these from an older edition or are they a new addition? ;)

Is there anywhere I could get more information on them?



Cyclone Missile Launcher No, has Havoc Launcher instead

As much as I like Havoc Launchers, I don't feel they are a replacement for the Cyclone's 2 modes of fire at H2.

Small grip aside, I'm certainly buying at least one, but only if / when the rumors of a new Codex become more tangible.

G

Dreachon
01-10-2011, 13:16
Can you give us a hint on what these new chaos weapons are?
Hopefully the havoc launcher will get a boost with the next codex as right now it's no match at all for a CML.

DuskRaider
01-10-2011, 14:35
It's great they can take the same weapons, which means I don't need to hesitate on what to buy. What I'm REALLY interested in knowing is how the Marks work. Are they like 3.5?

Lars Porsenna
01-10-2011, 14:54
Small grip aside, I'm certainly buying at least one, but only if / when the rumors of a new Codex become more tangible.


Dunno, but I don't think a new codex should have too much impact on this thing. I'm thinking about picking one up and using it in IW colors...

Damon.

Eighties-Matt
01-10-2011, 16:58
Can you give us a hint on what these new chaos weapons are?


I'm not really aware of the rules for posting weapons profiles so to cover my rear I'm gonna make this confusing as hell. If someone confirms that I wont get in trouble for posting the actual profile / special rules , I will post the actual profile / special rules.

Butcher Cannon - 36" S8 AP4 Heavy 4
Soulburner - 24" S5 AP5 Assault 1, 3" blast, Rending, Ignores Cover

Plasma Blaster - 18" S7 AP2 Assault 2, Gets Hot!

Graviton Gun - 18" S* AP3, Heavy 1m 3" Blast, Graviton Gun
*Models caught under the template must pass a Strength test or take a wound. Vehicles take a glance on a 5+. After the shot is sorted out, leave the blast marker where it hit- this area will count as both difficult and dangerous terrain until the end of the next turn. Much better than the stupid Soul burner.

Heavy conversion beamer - Essentially a Master of the Forges conversion beamer, only instead of firing a small blast, it fires the 5" blast. However, you cant move and shoot with it in the same turn, you will have to sit still to use the conversion beamer.


What I'm REALLY interested in knowing is how the Marks work.

Just like the old days, you can dedicate your Contemptor to a Chaos God, and it will gain a particular benefit depending on the god you choose.

Khorne - gives you Rage and +d3A when charging
Slaanesh - equipped with offensive and defensive grenades, and makes the dread I5
Nurgle - reduce rolls made on vehicle damage charts against it be at -1 (the best imo)
Tzeentch - bolt and flame weapons it uses become AP3, and it call re-roll 1's on its attack rolls.

Coupled with the fact that the chaos dread gets a 4+ invulnerability to glancing hits (think a cover save, only not) and a 6+ against penetrating hits, these things can be rather survivable if you're careful (or make a Nurgle one).

The best part about them though? No stupid insanity rule, and like pretty much all contemptors, they have fleet.

*Also, cheers for the advice Asher*

Asher
01-10-2011, 17:08
I'm not really aware of the rules for posting weapons profiles so to cover my rear I'm gonna make this confusing as hell. If someone confirms that I wont get in trouble for posting the actual profile / special rules , I will post the actual profile / special rules.

Thanks for the run-down on the rules so far.

As long as you don't post point costs everything should be fine. Look at these two for reference:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4225675&postcount=5
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3381955&postcount=10



Tzeentch - bolt and flame weapons it uses become AP3, and it call re-roll 1's on its attack rolls.

With two heavy flamers on the CCWs and those-rerolls, the Tzeentch Contemptor sounds like a real marine killer upclose!

Haunter!
01-10-2011, 18:25
Well, looks like my pure Tzeentch Chaos Marine army is back on my to-do list.

pyrosocial
01-10-2011, 19:29
Not sure if this is the right place for this , but can anyone confirm wether or not the legion version of the dread can be equipped with everything its weakling loyalist counterpart can ?

Those are fighting words, Heretic scum. :evilgrin:

I think it will be. Might be slightly altered. I would think that it wouldent have the conversion beamer though. Seems pretty rare and hightech even for the loyalist.

Tay051173096
01-10-2011, 19:34
Well, looks like my pure Tzeentch Chaos Marine army is back on my to-do list.

Time to start saving up again... :D

Mannimarco
01-10-2011, 20:58
Obviously I'll be taking the Nurgle ones however the Tzeentchian marked ones do sound interesting.

The Khornate one looks like it will just work similarly to the blood slaughterer.

Dreachon
01-10-2011, 23:11
@Eighties-Matt

Thanks for that info, I really like those chaos weapons nad the marks are just great, I see that the chaos contemptor is gonna be a must have for chaos forces, it's just too good to pass up.

Eighties-Matt
01-10-2011, 23:16
@Eighties-Matt

Thanks for that info, I really like those chaos weapons nad the marks are just great, I see that the chaos contemptor is gonna be a must have for chaos forces, it's just too good to pass up.

No worries, I bought a contemptor at the same time as I bought IA2 at games day, was gambling on them being worth using, so I'm happy to share the great news.

Hopefully we'll be seeing a few great conversions of them over the coming months, and, as a Death Guard Chaos player through-and-through, my Nurgle one will probably surface in the project logs in a week or so

:)

Dreachon
01-10-2011, 23:19
Hopefully we'll be seeing a few great conversions of them over the coming months, and, as a Death Guard Chaos player through-and-through, my Nurgle one will probably surface in the project logs in a week or so


I'll wait and see how the chaos version will look like, it will be fun converting them to make em more unike.
For me these will become very usefull for apocalypse.

Brother Garrod
02-10-2011, 02:48
thanks for posting the full weapons list :) , i can plan my second contemptor ( and weapons for my first ) a little easier now

Eighties-Matt
02-10-2011, 03:01
thanks for posting the full weapons list :) , i can plan my second contemptor ( and weapons for my first ) a little easier now

Not a problem. One more thing I thought I'd post, the defensive rules the Loyalist and Chaos Contemptors possess.

Loyalists get Atomantic Shielding; 5+ Invulnerable Save against shooting attacks and explosions, and a 6+ Invulnerable Save against close combat attacks. If the contemptor explodes, add +1" to the blast radius.

Chaos get Hellfire Reactor; The Chaos Contemptor can negate the effect of any glancing hit scored against it on a 4+, and negate any effect of any penetrating hit against it on a 6+. Also, if a model that is classed as a Psyker is in base contact with the dread, it takes a S2 AP2 hit at I10 during each assault phase its in contact with it. If the Chaos Contemptor explodes, add D3" to the blast radius.

Both of these are special rules that come with each Contemptor, and do not need to be purchased. It should be worth noting that the Chaos Contemptor is quite a few points more than its loyalist counterpart.

AlphariusOmegon20
02-10-2011, 04:04
Butcher Cannon - 36" S8 AP4 Heavy 4


Sounds a bit like a slightly upgunned Reaper Autocannon.

Dreachon
02-10-2011, 19:34
Can the contemptor now also exchange it's ccw for another ranged weapon, they trial ruels didn't allow it but I'm seeing version now popping up with 2 ranged weapons on the web.

Eighties-Matt
02-10-2011, 23:25
Can the contemptor now also exchange it's ccw for another ranged weapon, they trial ruels didn't allow it but I'm seeing version now popping up with 2 ranged weapons on the web.

Unfortunately not, neither the loyalist nor Chaos Contemptor Dreads may replace their original DCCW with an additional gun, the cyclone / havoc launcher is all they get. They can replace their original ranged weapon with a second DCCW.

However, Loyalists have access to a variant of the Contemptor, the Contemptor Mortis pattern, which sports 2 twin-linked heavy bolters, and may replace them both with the following:

Two Multi-Meltas,
Two Twin-Linked Autocannons,
Two Plasma Cannons,
Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons, or
Two Twin-Linked Lascannons.

This is probably the 2-gunned Dread you're referencing, its very good, and even with the most expensive guns on it, its considerably cheaper than a normal Chaos or Loyalist Contemptor Dread.

For those curious about the Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, here are its stats: 24" S6 AP4 Heavy 6, Rending.
I'd much rather have that instead of a butcher cannon.

Dreachon
03-10-2011, 00:07
Unfortunately not, neither the loyalist nor Chaos Contemptor Dreads may replace their original DCCW with an additional gun, the cyclone / havoc launcher is all they get. They can replace their original ranged weapon with a second DCCW.

However, Loyalists have access to a variant of the Contemptor, the Contemptor Mortis pattern, which sports 2 twin-linked heavy bolters, and may replace them both with the following:

Two Multi-Meltas,
Two Twin-Linked Autocannons,
Two Plasma Cannons,
Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons, or
Two Twin-Linked Lascannons.

This is probably the 2-gunned Dread you're referencing, its very good, and even with the most expensive guns on it, its considerably cheaper than a normal Chaos or Loyalist Contemptor Dread.

For those curious about the Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon, here are its stats: 24" S6 AP4 Heavy 6, Rending.
I'd much rather have that instead of a butcher cannon.

Sweet mother of Jezus, my DW buddy is gonna freak about that, 2 kheres asscannons and a CML, that thing will reap straight through anything that dumb enough to get in it's way.
Must make sure he doesn't get wind of this.

Draconis
03-10-2011, 04:11
leave it to the loyalists...

Carnage
03-10-2011, 05:18
Sweet mother of Jezus, my DW buddy is gonna freak about that, 2 kheres asscannons and a CML, that thing will reap straight through anything that dumb enough to get in it's way.
Must make sure he doesn't get wind of this.

Bet it's 250ish points though. You could get 2 normal rifleman dreads for that.

Mannimarco
03-10-2011, 05:19
leave it to the loyalists...

Never! We Chaos players need useful dreads! :D

Eighties-Matt
03-10-2011, 05:29
Bet it's 250ish points though. You could get 2 normal rifleman dreads for that.

Its a fair amount cheaper than that, but these things are pretty damn survivable. All Contemptors are 13/12/11, and the loyalist ones have a 5+ Invul against shooting and a 6+ invul against close combat.

They also come with smoke launchers, and the Mortis is BS5. All other Contemptors are WS5 BS4.

Dreachon
03-10-2011, 10:49
Its a fair amount cheaper than that, but these things are pretty damn survivable. All Contemptors are 13/12/11, and the loyalist ones have a 5+ Invul against shooting and a 6+ invul against close combat.

They also come with smoke launchers, and the Mortis is BS5. All other Contemptors are WS5 BS4.

Oh damn that is just wrong, I'm gonna hate having to face something like this.

Draconis
03-10-2011, 15:30
Never! We Chaos players need useful dreads! :D

Hehe, I didnt mean that. I meant that leave it to the loyalists to get all the good stuff for cheaper.

Brother Garrod
03-10-2011, 18:41
yeah , but factor in the chaos ones can have marks , and this more than equals what the loyalist ones get , i mean hell , a chaos contemptor with two CC weapons with heavy flamers and the mark of Tzeentch is a goddamn death machine

Asher
03-10-2011, 19:03
yeah , but factor in the chaos ones can have marks , and this more than equals what the loyalist ones get , i mean hell , a chaos contemptor with two CC weapons with heavy flamers and the mark of Tzeentch is a goddamn death machine

And a damn expensive one. It's more expensive than the chaos landraider and a primary target for every AT weapon out there.

While I like all Contemptor variants, I'm still convinced that they could be a bit cheaper and still not OTT.

Brother Garrod
03-10-2011, 19:15
true about the points cost, but they can be pretty survivable if you fleet it from cover to cover , once you get it close enough it should be able to look after itself

FraustyTheSnowman
13-10-2011, 23:00
They both have smoke launchers, or just the loyalist?

Zanzibarthefirst
14-10-2011, 00:14
Sounds a bit like a slightly upgunned Reaper Autocannon.

Noo, it sounds like what the reaper autocannon should be.

theDarkGeneral
14-10-2011, 01:43
Basically, it's all about a Chaos Contemptor Dreadnought w/Mark of Khorne, 2 Chainfists w/Hvy Flamer & Plasma Blaster, and a Havoc Launcher!!!! These are going to be MONEY in our Mega-Apocalypse Events!!! I need 4 just to get started...:evilgrin:

Mannimarco
14-10-2011, 01:50
Looking at these things, as pricey as all these upgrades are going to be does anybody else feel they are going to be a tad hard to get approval for in a "normal" 40k game?

FraustyTheSnowman
14-10-2011, 02:25
Mannimarco...I'll tell you for sure when I see their stats, but I know at least back where I used to play everything was good as long as you had the rules. Some things that were particularly poorly priced/ruled were generally brought up before a game, but most people were cool about it as long as they knew ahead of time.

Mannimarco
14-10-2011, 03:50
Mannimarco...I'll tell you for sure when I see their stats, but I know at least back where I used to play everything was good as long as you had the rules. Some things that were particularly poorly priced/ruled were generally brought up before a game, but most people were cool about it as long as they knew ahead of time.

I hear that, I mean Im probably Warseers most vocal pro FW fanboy but with all these fancy new toys of killyness might even give me a moments pause, even with the power escalation in todays codexes.

AlphariusOmegon20
14-10-2011, 04:19
Noo, it sounds like what the reaper autocannon should be.

Personally I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case right now. :(

DuskRaider
14-10-2011, 05:13
At the same point we are talking about a Dreadnought that, when tooled out with various weaponry and a Chaos Mark, is more expensive than a Land Raider. And it's a bigger target. Just like Blight Drones, the Chaos Contemptor gives Chaos Marines that little extra oomph. And it's very fluffy, as I'd imagine most Chaos Dreadnoughts to be Contemptor pattern.

Reaver83
14-10-2011, 07:18
I live the model and the new load outs look awesome.

As for playing with/against them, the way I see it is that all the goodies in the new FW book which have the 40k sticker tend to be for the older books, I think these units are not overpowered compared to newer books, but perhaps they are to there competitors in the existing books.

To me it seems a great way to balance the old books bs the new!

MajorWesJanson
14-10-2011, 07:25
Honestly, while Chaos ought to get some variants of the contemptor, I'd love to see them get the old chaos dread designs back, both sizes: