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Malorian
29-09-2011, 15:06
I was putting together a stonehorn (which I plan to loot and toss an orc warboss on) and everything was going well until the seat...


For those that don't know, the main seat is two parts which an extra part on either side that extends into long jaw bones that go back. This was no problem and put together in 4 seconds. Then there is a series of ropes that goes between the jaws bones, and on these are a bunch of odds and ends...

Now these ropes are REALLY small and there are a LOT of sprue connections (I think it was in the area of about 10). I did my best to be careful but it wasn't long before the ropes snapped as I clipped the piece free.

I simply gave up and decided it looked fine without the ropes (which would have just been a ball of glue had I tried to fix it).


This got me thinking: 10 years ago this part would have been metal and other than cleaning up the flashing would have been very easy to add and would have never broken without some serious abuse.

Now I'm a big fan of plastic (I would give my right nut to get plastic dwarf hammerers) but in this case I actually wished it was the old days with the combo kits.


So what does the rest of Warseer think?

Finecast errors aside, do you ever find yourself missing metal?

Shnerg
29-09-2011, 15:17
I constantly miss metal. I prefer the feel of metal models, because it makes my lords and heroes feel more important.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
29-09-2011, 15:18
I was putting together a stonehorn (which I plan to loot and toss an orc warboss on) and everything was going well until the seat...


For those that don't know, the main seat is two parts which an extra part on either side that extends into long jaw bones that go back. This was no problem and put together in 4 seconds. Then there is a series of ropes that goes between the jaws bones, and on these are a bunch of odds and ends...

Now these ropes are REALLY small and there are a LOT of sprue connections (I think it was in the area of about 10). I did my best to be careful but it wasn't long before the ropes snapped as I clipped the piece free.

I simply gave up and decided it looked fine without the ropes (which would have just been a ball of glue had I tried to fix it).


This got me thinking: 10 years ago this part would have been metal and other than cleaning up the flashing would have been very easy to add and would have never broken without some serious abuse.

Now I'm a big fan of plastic (I would give my right nut to get plastic dwarf hammerers) but in this case I actually wished it was the old days with the combo kits.


So what does the rest of Warseer think?

Finecast errors aside, do you ever find yourself missing metal?

I've done this a few times with plastic kits, it's very annoying. Just one of those things you have to live with I suppose, in general I prefer plastic to metal and hybrid kits were never the best. I'd rather the sculptors don't put on those kinds of details, that or they go the extra mile and use some precision tools to cut those parts off their own separate sprue first, in such a manner as they won't break.

UberBeast
29-09-2011, 15:32
Go out and get some jewelers chain.

But, really I do miss metal. I remember when I got into the hobby back in the early 90's I couldn't understand why anyone would pick metal as medium over plastic, but I gradually grew to love it and have since built and painted more metal minis than whole threads of people here on Warseer.

I don't particularly mind Forgeworld resin, though it's fragile, but I simply loath finecast right now.

Metal, will always be my favorite medium, with plastic as a close second.

Drongol
29-09-2011, 15:37
Here's the thing.

That Stonetusk that you were putting together? It it were metal, you'd have to pin and gap-fill every single one of those joins. And most of them would need to be horribly bent as well.

Then, just when you've got it all perfect and painted and are in the midst of showing off your creation, That Kid will show up. You know, the one who grabs without permission and has all the grip strength of a baby penguin? The one nicknamed "Crash?"

And then, if you're very, very lucky, the pinning and the glue will hold and you've only got a few bits of chipped paint to try to fix. If you're unlucky, you get a shattered mess that will take hours to fix.

And never mind that something like a Stonehorn just couldn't work in metal anyways. Seriously, did you ever try to put together a metal Scraplauncher?

Malorian
29-09-2011, 15:49
Here's the thing.

That Stonetusk that you were putting together? It it were metal, you'd have to pin and gap-fill every single one of those joins. And most of them would need to be horribly bent as well.

Please note, I wasn't missing completely metal kits, I was missing the mixed kits that were mainly plastic but the finer stuff was metal.

EmperorNorton
29-09-2011, 16:17
I was putting together a stonehorn (which I plan to loot and toss an orc warboss on) and everything was going well until the seat...


For those that don't know, the main seat is two parts which an extra part on either side that extends into long jaw bones that go back. This was no problem and put together in 4 seconds. Then there is a series of ropes that goes between the jaws bones, and on these are a bunch of odds and ends...

Now these ropes are REALLY small and there are a LOT of sprue connections (I think it was in the area of about 10). I did my best to be careful but it wasn't long before the ropes snapped as I clipped the piece free.

I simply gave up and decided it looked fine without the ropes (which would have just been a ball of glue had I tried to fix it).
I had the same problem, a part of the rope simply snapped.
I glued it back into place, though, and it doesn't look too bad.

Malorian
29-09-2011, 16:19
I had the same problem, a part of the rope simply snapped.
I glued it back into place, though, and it doesn't look too bad.

Mine snapped in 2 places when I was being careful, and 1 more place when I was getting tired of it. :(

Bael
29-09-2011, 16:32
I have wished for metal models to be plastic far more than the other way around (Hellcannon, old Scraplauncher, old Steamtank, most older Special units, Warmachine jacks).

Don't miss metal at all, for any model I can think at least. I have always (well, last 10 years) preferred resin over metal, and plastic over both.

abdulaapocolyps
29-09-2011, 16:49
Plastic is ace cos its so cheap but I agree that I miss metal a LOT.my dwarf army is almost entirely metal and it has a solidity to go with the charm the old dwarfs jad before becoming the caricatures they are today.

Rogue
29-09-2011, 17:39
Plastic is ace cos its so cheap but I agree that I miss metal a LOT.my dwarf army is almost entirely metal and it has a solidity to go with the charm the old dwarfs jad before becoming the caricatures they are today.

If it is so cheap then why is it that all models are at or over $2.45 per model? Sorry, but that justification does not really wash any more for me, when historical manufactures can do the comperable miniature for Empire and Bretonnia for half of that on the high end.

To stay on point I do miss metal as well. So much that I am not buying any finecast models if I can help it, which basically keeps my collection stuck in the past and is fine by me. All of the newer lines have become just weird for a lack of a better word and I am completely turned off by what is coming out of Nottingham.

The bearded one
29-09-2011, 20:10
* slaps Malorian in the face *

Blasphemer, how dare ye not appreciate the gift the great workshop of games has given thee! Worship it, darn you!

May all your finecasts be miscasts, and your miscasts be fine!



Seriously though; I don't miss metal at all, especially for large models, although I do miss the weight small infantry characters had. Them falling over on slightly uneven ground, bumping them into something and chipping the paint was annoying and I am glad that is gone, but the sentimental me does miss having characters that are at least a bit heavier than the rest, but finecast is even lighter than the plastic..
They're so light that sometimes I fear my finecast chars will just float up and away :p


In short; don't miss the material and the way it handeled, but I do miss the weight.

H33D
29-09-2011, 20:14
Where did you go runelord? Oh there you are by the ceiling fan.

Lord Inquisitor
29-09-2011, 20:23
I think the advantages of the plastic far outweigh the disadvantages. I was just putting the same kit together myself and the way it fits together is a thing of marvels. Many of the joins don't need greenstuffing at all or are cleverly hidden. Can you imagine if it were metal? Like a scraplauncher except worse? While you wouldn't have to clip it off a sprue, such fiddly parts like those stringy bits would have arrived bent out of shape. I broke the chains on my scraplauncher trying to get them into the right shape. I don't think metal would have been any better in that regard and you'd have all the other issues with metal - including huge gaps or bent components.

I am surprised how many fiddly components there are in that kit. The chaintrap in particular looks like it'll last five minutes. Looks great - not practical at all.

Rosstifer
29-09-2011, 20:25
I missed Metal yesterday too. Ipod wasn't working so I had to listen to the mainstream bilge they force on everyone via the radio. Oh, wait, wrong Metal?

I still have lots of metal models. I'm working on 4 Dragon Ogres and 6 Chaos Ogres in satisfyingly hefty metal. I like having a mix of all 3 materials as I honestly have no real preference. The varnishing process takes longer, but that's fine with me.

Sgt John Keel
29-09-2011, 20:31
6 Chaos Ogres

Ooh, those minis are awesome. Somehow people seem to dislike them, though. :shifty:

As for the topic, I assume the reason GW got rid of hybrid kits was because of logistics/packaging issues, otherwise they were not worse than the alternative.

Socaddict
29-09-2011, 21:08
regarding fine stuff like that, use a saw or similar to cut through the parts of the sprue that they're attached too, then take the fine parts off the sprue with a fine modelling knife. Much less tension, so parts come off much easier

Malorian
29-09-2011, 21:19
* slaps Malorian in the face *

You... you... hit me...

...

It's OVER between us!

I NEVER should have married you!

*runs away crying*

minionboy
29-09-2011, 21:24
Hey Mal,

I literally experienced the same thing when I built my stonehorn. After carefully gluing those little strings of plastic back together and having it break a few times, it feels mostly stable. I think before I paint it though I'm going to cut them out and replace them with jewelers chain.

Gork or Possibly Mork
29-09-2011, 22:11
Before i learned how to sculpt i might have misssed metal for situations like that.

Im also super careful on bits like that. I usually set it down on a table and try to support the piece where i cut it from underneath. It's it's tiny i use a very sharp one sided razor. If it's a little thicker i'll support the piece with my fingers like a vice and just use snips. I haven't broken a fragile piece in years.


There's really nothing i miss about metal. I don't like the weight because i always feel precarious when picking it up especially units in movement trays, you need really really strong magnets and that's no guarantee it won't fall and break into many pieces. It also chips easier unless you finish the hell out of it to the point it looks shiny even with matte finish and it's more annoying dealing with mold lines and sometimes on tiny details the paint doesn't flow into those areas so easily. I have a few models i painted only to notice after finishing it there were tiny pin hole like areas where the base coat didn't cover. My own fault for not inspecting more closely but still.

For all these reasons i don't miss metal at all.

With that said i think i would prefer metal over finecast. :p GW really needs to get there act together with that stuff.

TBH i'd prefer them to just go all plastic.

Andy p
29-09-2011, 22:17
I had the same problem....the worst part is it didnt even snap because I clipped it there, it snapped when I clipped away at the sturdiest parts merely from the force of clipping.

Made me laugh though. :D

Of course in my case this happened through my fault more than anything else, I probably should have clipped the fragile parts first...no worries though, im just going to hang a bunch of accessories off the back instead.

ftayl5
29-09-2011, 22:24
I prefer metal to finecast definitely, but I just love plastic.
So easy to work with, takes literally seconds to remove mould lines, easy to glue together, easy to kitbash with etc etc etc

Metal has much stronger mould lines and flash, requires a more expensive and less effective glue, often requires pinning, can be challenging to kitbash with etc etc etc

Plastic is awesome :D

Gork or Possibly Mork
29-09-2011, 22:26
I prefer metal to finecast definitely, but I just love plastic.
So easy to work with, takes literally seconds to remove mould lines, easy to glue together, easy to kitbash with etc etc etc

Metal has much stronger mould lines and flash, requires a more expensive and less effective glue, often requires pinning, can be challenging to kitbash with etc etc etc

Plastic is awesome :D

I use super glue on everything. :shifty:

jimbo2
29-09-2011, 22:30
I by far miss the days of metal. It really hit home when trying to assemble the elves from the IoB kit. So many of the details on them snapped off as I was clipping them off it was ridiculous, nothing beats the old, sturdy lead based kits.

Like Gork I don't use a plastic glue on my plastics anyway, stuff like Haffix's is way stronger.

Snowflake
29-09-2011, 22:44
Yeah, I don't miss metal at all. As some people have mentioned, I really loathe having to pin and green stuff each join together just to get it to look halfway decent. For some of them, it feels like I have to sculpt them myself. Then, if you actually play with the models, no matter how careful you are, it still chips in places. After a while they look like they have shiny pox.

No thank you. If every single kit became plastic I would jump for joy. I'll even accept finecast.

The bearded one
29-09-2011, 23:06
You... you... hit me...

...

It's OVER between us!

I NEVER should have married you!

*runs away crying*

Really? Sweet!

You can have the kids.. annoying brats..

I'll take the house and car :p

Sedekiel
29-09-2011, 23:44
...and 1 more place when I was getting tired of it. :(
Ahhh the frustration snap...
I miss the metals...They had that snap fit to base (maybe glue a hand weapon or something small) and you are ready to go...Army in 10 min's...

But I rly hated/loved those big metal kits...you know the feeling you get after being over the instant glue fumes after many hours of epic "glueing"... your head and eyes hurt but it is done...that feeling :)

dimetri1
30-09-2011, 00:47
In 7th my entire Daemon army was metal and I absolutely loved it. I felt like I really owned something. Then 8th came along and I was forced to play with plastic Bloodletters. Now there is Finecast..... needs some work still. Finecast reminds me of my little green army men when I was a kid only they did not have as many defects.

Hochdorf
30-09-2011, 02:05
dimetri1: I imagine your little green army men were somewhat more affordable too!

Nedar
30-09-2011, 02:10
Down with Metal!! I hate the weight and feel of metal. I love magnetizing all of my models to my trays, and metal models are infinitely harder to work with w/o heavy duty stuff that is overkill for plastic.

I'm all for plastic-only...though finecast is kinda nice to work with. It's a bit brittle and stuff get's kinda bent, but it's light...easy to cut/drill (I still pin them lightly for added strength in the bond). minor miscasts can be sealed with GS, as you'd have to do with metal gaps anyway.

All in all..Plastic is the best, hands down, and metal is the worst thing you can model with. A product of ancient times (hehe) in wargamming :P

dimetri1
30-09-2011, 02:20
dimetri1: I imagine your little green army men were somewhat more affordable too!

Very much so!

redshylock
30-09-2011, 03:05
In addition OOP metal figure sells alot better in eBay. I for once have little interest getting fine cast over eBay.

Trustey
30-09-2011, 03:21
I don't like big metal kits (hellcannon). But I prefer lords and heroes in metal and miss them. I'm debating the new Nurgle lord vs the old one. The new one is a superior sculpt IMO but the idea of accidentally knocking over a chaos lord with a stray pinky finger...

rabblerouser
30-09-2011, 03:29
I love metal. It has many advantages over plastic when it comes to small parts, figures with stems, thin details, etc. The people who complained about it just have poor assembling skills. Unfortunately that includes a significant portion of GW's customer base.

Lord Inquisitor
30-09-2011, 04:25
Incidentally, there's an art to removing delicate structures from plastic sprues. One trick is to chop up the sprue around the piece before you remove the piece itself. It's the rigidity of the sprue that's breaking your components. The clippers can't push the sprue away so it breaks. Remove the nearest piece of sprue from the rest of the sprue and it should clip away nicely.

Lord Dan
30-09-2011, 04:29
I didn't start seriously collecting until the end of 6th edition, so I never had armies comprised mostly of metal. In fact when I bought a box of Empire state troops with the metal command I was pissed off that it wasn't the all-plastic set.

Hicks
30-09-2011, 07:21
I like my hammerers in metal and certainly wouldn't sacrifice a nut for them, but I am a fan of metal too.

Especialy one pieces models, that you just need to glue on the base. They are very solid and don't need the hours of mold line removing than that plastics require. Also, for certain armies, it just feels "right" to be made of metal.

My dwarfs are mostly metal and it fits their character, also, I wouldn't want a resin Yarrick to lead my Steel Legion. On the other side, I would hate plastic tactical marines with a passion, same thing for gaunts.

So, I find minis that have a lot of equipment options to be better as plastics, and the rest is better in metal. I'm not a fan of finecasts, because I feel like they stole metal's niche and didn't add anything in return. I think resin would be absolutely great for conversion packs and additional bits, but I don't like it replacing whole metal minis.

Oogie boogie boss
30-09-2011, 09:14
I really miss metal. Don't get me wrong, i think finecast is great, but all of the best models from the good ol' days are metal. Plus, i always feel like i'm going to snap finecast models when putting them together. I miss the sturdiness of the old metal models.

Oogie boogie boss
30-09-2011, 09:17
That being said, putting together the old Bloodthirster, lovely model though it is, was one og the most frustrating experiences of my life.

Liber
30-09-2011, 09:51
Now I'm a big fan of plastic (I would give my right nut to get plastic dwarf hammerers) but in this case I actually wished it was the old days with the combo kits.


So what does the rest of Warseer think?

Finecast errors aside, do you ever find yourself missing metal?


I just bought my first dwarf hammerers and built them yesterday...and i was missing finecast. Meaning that i was bitterly thinking whilst working with them how nice it would be if they were cast in finecast already...i waited months and months to buy hammerers, waiting for GW to act, but upon hearing that somehow Empire and VC are slated next for army updates i gave in and bought them in over priced metal :( Now, with my luck GW will release a multi-part plastic or finecast hammerer kit within a month :rolleyes:

To me metal means

1. easily broken

2. a headache to put together

3. very heavy and hard to handle on the table top

4. (and my biggest beef with the material) CHIPPING i can't stand paint (even primer before you get a chance to paint it) chipping off of the models.

5. (my 2nd biggest complaint) impossible/extremely hard to convert or customize, something i greatly enjoy doing.


so although i'm sure there are rare circumstances like the one you describe that part of a kit would benefit from being metal, i honestly can't see the rest of the metal range dissapear fast enough.


(one of my first warhammer(40k) battles when i was in highschool saw my Tau Broadside battlesuit fall off the gaming table and break into a bunch of peices...it was a combo kit, and was literally impossible (even with pinning) to put back together)

SkawtheFalconer
30-09-2011, 11:01
(to paraphase Tenacious D) Finecast tried to destroy the metal, but the metal had its waaaaaay...

It's a toss up for me - plastic and metal both have advantages and disadvantages over the other. I must admit though, every time I've built a plastic Chaos Warrior, the bit of rope at the bottom of their axe has snapped off, and there's no way on earth I can get it back on. Not a big deal really, but frustrating.

Loopstah
30-09-2011, 12:23
Personaly I prefer plastic over metal (I haven't tried finecast yet though) as it's so much easier to clean up and convert. Metal is harder to damage or break though but I'd rather be able to clean and cut it up easier.

Tarliyn
30-09-2011, 15:24
I have never like metal models and don't miss them in the least. The
Extra weight never really did it for me. They are harder to put together, harder to keep together, harder to attach and keep it attached to a base, and since the paint chips on them harder to store/transport.

The only thing metal had going for it was you could do more with the sculpts themselves but with finecast now that isnt even something unique to metal. IMO resin and plastic are superior to metal in everyway.

I guess besides the issue of weight I don't get what people are missing? Everything is easier in plastic/resin. Maybe thats because I have never really had the issue of my plastic peices breaking in that way.

I think its funny that Mal's intial statement of missing metal actually had nothing to do with an issue with finecast though and had to do with a disadvantage of plastic.