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tuo
01-10-2011, 22:00
Heyho all,

I am currently trying to get back into the game after several years of exodus. I left the active gaming aspect of the hobby at the beginning of fourth edition since I had to move to a different part of the country. I still bought the rulebooks and the codices and now want to get back into the game.

I have played since Rogue Trader, and am playing a Word Bearers army since 2nd Edition Chaos Codex.

The problem I am facing is that I really have trouble playing at my local GW store. My first problem was the people refused to play me because I am fielding "non GW-models". I tried to explain for maybe half an hour to the local red shirt that those models (about 15% of my marines) are Rogue Trader era Chaos Space Marines. No dice...I didn't feel like removing one of them from the base to show him the GW tag at the bottom part. Well...

The next problem I am facing is that every one of my three Land Raiders (I used one of them) is converted to look like the Epic style Chaos Land Raiders, with the Lascannon Turrets on top of the Raider. After the slightest concerns came up, I immidiately said that I would measure all firing arcs/line of sights from the sides, as I don't want to be called out for "modelling for advantage". Of course, the next argument was about all of my terminators beeing on "the wrong size of bases" (allthough those are exactly the bases that came with the models).

To make a long story short: I used to play because I love the fluff, the hobby, the conversion. "Back then" (damn, I feel old...), nobody - and I mean nobody - outside of a tournament had any problem with me fielding Rogue Trader models and converted tanks, up to fourth edition.

Has the game/the players/the general feel changed that much, that everything you do which was not covered in the latest white dwarf is seen as suspicious to cheating/modelling for advantage etc.?

As I said, I try to get back into the active gaming, and I feel kinda like the "old guy babling about old models", who people hesitate to play against, as my army looks different to what is shown in the books.

I can understand that GW would like me to buy new models, and I am fine with this. What I am concerned about is the change in attitude.

Am I seeing things / is my local GW "special" in this regards? What do you all think?

best regards

tuo

jack da greenskin
01-10-2011, 22:21
Find some opponents who arent immature and whiney. Sounds like you've got a characterful army and I'd find it an honour to play.

Moriarty
01-10-2011, 22:24
No probs with RT Ork models in my local GW - though the last competition I was in, the IG player did ask if I was fielding a 'Grot' army. Git. Do want to try fielding a Dalek army as Necrons, though; just for the craik.

ehlijen
01-10-2011, 22:53
As annoying as it is, I think it's fair that current GW staff aren't 100% educated on models out of production since before they joined the hobby.

I think the main reason the people you remember played you and this new crowd doesn't, is that they knew you. The current gamers are used to things being a certain way and then someone with models older than their interest in the game turns up and asks them to accept models they don't recognise as official, 'incorrect' base sizes as official and tank layouts as different from what they are.

Yes, it sucks for you, but don't just write them all off as 'not fun'. That's not giving them the chance you asked them to give you. Sure, they may not turn out to be fun opponents after all, but don't pidgeon hole them based on one first meeting where you clearly caught them off guard.

Try bringing in an old WD with pictures of your models maybe? Ought to at least convince the staff member.

ForgottenLore
01-10-2011, 23:00
As annoying as it is, I think it's fair that current GW staff aren't 100% educated on models out of production since before they joined the hobby.

Sure, but GW figs have a pretty distinctive style that makes them easy to identify as GW even if you have never seen that specific miniature before and if he told the guy they were old GW figs then calling one of your customers a liar is pretty bad retail strategy.

tuo
01-10-2011, 23:08
Heyho all,

I agree with the fact that current red shirts might not be aware of older models, and the current (and without any doubt future) situation with fine cast is the final nail on the coffin of the old, old models.

Regarding ehlijens response: I actually completely agree with you, and maybe my post came of a little bit wrong - or, if I read your response - completely wrong. I am not the person who shows up with old stuff, bringing it on the table and then get's furious when people don't recognize it. All of the games mentioned, I was able to pull out enough "current" models to make up for the RT era stuff, and I simply removed the las-turrets from my land raiders and came to a conclusion with my opponent that they are on the sides. all of those games where fun, and most of those opponents where interested in the old fluff, and I know how hard id was to get my old 2nd ed chaos codex and (especially) angels of death codex back from the crowd who where delighted to see such stuff.

My post is more about the general attitude which I felt...suspicious, afraid of facing a "power gamer" or somebody who models for advantage etc.

Ehlijen is right when he says that most of the old blokes I played against where people I knew or people I get to know through the hobby. Where I live, there where no GW stores when I started, we played at "fantasy stores", "roleplaying conventions" etc. pp.

To me - and now you all my call me an old fart - it simply doesn't feel like back then. It feels more like a "sport", like winning is the driving part of the "hobby" (please note I said "the hobby", not "the game"). Maybe I am getting old :/

PS: please excuse my bad english, as it is not my native tongue, as you surely have noticed :/

best regards

tuo

Frowbakk
01-10-2011, 23:15
I feel for you. You're old and these young punks don't know how hard we gamers had it back in our day.

When I was a boy my Nintendo
was carved from an old apple tree
and we used garden hose to connect it
to our steam-powered color tv

But it still beat that ancient Atari
'cause I almost went blind, don'cha know
playing Breakout and Pong on a video game
That was hooked up to our radio...

The rest of the Song (authored by Frank Hayes, sung by Joe Bethancourt) is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1fBd7UbQPA


Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt, spilled grape juice on it, used it as a rag to wash my car...

I have many, many old models and still get the occasional odd comment when I use them in tournament play. All of the Ork Warbikes I have are the old Citadel models made of Real Toxic Lead (TM), and then there's the unit of Cyboars...

Either you can look down your nose at them and say in your best Alan Rictman impersonation "These models are older than YOU are", or take it as a teaching point.

Terminator base sizes are now officially 40mm, so you'll have to do some swapping. As for the rest, welcome to the 21st century granpa...

tuo
01-10-2011, 23:20
Sure, but GW figs have a pretty distinctive style that makes them easy to identify as GW even if you have never seen that specific miniature before and if he told the guy they were old GW figs then calling one of your customers a liar is pretty bad retail strategy.

I agree with you! The models in question where "standard issue" Chaos Space Marines, not even the "mushroom" Chaos Marines.

Then again, as I said, I agree that it might be too much to ask for that everybody in every GW store knows the models back to RT. The thing is, that I while I could bring the GW mail order catalogue they were in, it was the attitude I found alienating.

I made my first experiences with GW stores with fourth ed, as that was the time when they started to pop up in my country. Back then, the diverse an army was, the better. Of course people brought "outside food", and GW employees reminded them of the rules, and this all was fine. When I showed up to a recent Apocalypse event in the same store, I brought two titans. The armorcast Phantom, and the FW Phantom, and politely asked, which I am allowed the use. The response was: it would be better and less irritating for the crowd if you only used the FW one. This is fine with me. I know that every business needs to sell stuff/earn money, and I know that GW want's me to buy a completely new Word Bearers army, and frankly, I will do that over time.

As I said in the post above, my native tongue is not english, and I am not sure if I am able to "translate" what my real problem is all about. Has the hobby changed? Has the attitude changed? Is it now about bringing that one army, up to GW "standards", that army that rules them all, that finds and brings them all, and in the darkness binds them? Regardless of how much fun, fluff and athomsphere was left on the road?

Excuse my polemics ;)

regards

tuo

tuo
01-10-2011, 23:24
I feel for you. You're old and these young punks *snip*

I have many, many old models and still get the occasional odd comment when I use them in tournament play. All of the Ork Warbikes I have are the old Citadel models made of Real Toxic Lead (TM), and then there's the unit of Cyboars...

Either you can look down your nose at them and say in your best Alan Rictman impersonation "These models are older than YOU are", or take it as a teaching point.

Terminator base sizes are now officially 40mm, so you'll have to do some swapping. As for the rest, welcome to the 21st century granpa...

But...but..but...what became of the rule that models have to be on the base they where sold with? By the way....you really make me feel old.....I think I might pick up chess....the models don't change that much over the millenia, and the rules tend to stick....

*crawls under his rock and cries with his old termies.....

tuo

Wishing
01-10-2011, 23:32
My post is more about the general attitude which I felt...suspicious, afraid of facing a "power gamer" or somebody who models for advantage etc.

Ehlijen is right when he says that most of the old blokes I played against where people I knew or people I get to know through the hobby. Where I live, there where no GW stores when I started, we played at "fantasy stores", "roleplaying conventions" etc. pp.

To me - and now you all my call me an old fart - it simply doesn't feel like back then. It feels more like a "sport", like winning is the driving part of the "hobby" (please note I said "the hobby", not "the game"). Maybe I am getting old :/

I definitely agree with you about this tendency. To me, the reason can be summed up in one phrase: The Internet.

Back in the day, buying models and building armies was something you tended to do either on your own or while chatting about it to your local gamer friends. You got your info from white dwarf, and that was it. Now, the internet being an everyday tool means that we exchange information about the game instantly with people all over the globe every day. Talking about what models are better than others becomes a source of endless fascination when you can talk to hundreds of people about it, and tournament information is posted for everyone to see. Thus, there is much better conditions for playing the game like a "sport" now than there was back when the only people you talked about the game with was your two friends in your parents' basement.

My advice is to simply be grateful that you got to experience the hobby in a simpler and more innocent age. And I hope you get to play against people who respect your cool old models, and don't force you to rebase your terminators. :)

Wyrmwood
01-10-2011, 23:34
They sound like a bunch of tools, really. 'Those Terminators are on the wrong base!' - How petty can one be? Personally, I'd love to play against your army.

AndrewGPaul
01-10-2011, 23:34
But...but..but...what became of the rule that models have to be on the base they where sold with?
tuo

To be brutal, the only rules that matter are the ones people agree on. If your local venue demands that Terminators should be on 40mm bases, you can point at the rulebook and argue until you're blue in the face, but if they don't change their minds, you're out of luck. :)

Did you mean these Chaos Renegades (http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2108chaosrenegades-h.htm), by the way? I can see why newer players might not accept them as Citadel Miniatures, since they're so different in style to the current models. What with all the knockoffs available these days, I understand their confusion.

Still, it does all sound a bit tedious. Is going into GW really your only option?

zoggin-eck
01-10-2011, 23:43
I'm amazed you've played since the 80's and actually want to play in a GW store!

Perhaps it was just the people there at the time, but if the staff are such losers about it, then good luck. And decent clubs or anywhere other than a GW store?

tuo
02-10-2011, 00:00
I'm amazed you've played since the 80's and actually want to play in a GW store!

Perhaps it was just the people there at the time, but if the staff are such losers about it, then good luck. And decent clubs or anywhere other than a GW store?

How else to get back into the hobby? All the people I reach over tha internets play in GW stores... :/
My folks from back then don't play any longer...it is truly frustrating....

@Wyrmwood
you are spot on! those are the ones, and I didn't even bring the strange ones ;)

regards

tuo

Wishing
02-10-2011, 00:24
But...but..but...what became of the rule that models have to be on the base they where sold with?

To be fair, you can interpret this in two ways... either as the base they were sold with, or as the base they are *currently* sold with. And it is easier to just to to the shelf and see what kind of base a model is sold with than having to investigate what kind of bases they have at any point in history been sold with. :)

That said, I really don't have much respect for these base size arguments. Back when GW changed the terminator base size, the designers specifically wrote that they didn't care what size base people used for them, they considered it to be the same either way.

thermopuke
02-10-2011, 02:21
Has the 'hobby' changed?

Yes, it has, some of it for the better and some of it for the worse. Being an ancient RT vet myself I would like to see some more respect from the youth for crusty old men like me but it isn't gonna happen.

One thing that hasn't changed is that people can approach 40k however they like and the modern way of playing is popular because it gives people an easy standard to work to when playing pick up games against players they don't know, I think you need to develop a gaming group of your own and show them just how cool 40k can be and get out of the GW because it's not really well suited for the likes of us.

Good luck with your future gaming and don't worry about your old minis, some of us still love that stuff,

KarlPedder
02-10-2011, 03:16
Its the franchise issue its the same reason why alot of folk have issues with people using FW models in games even though with a few rare exceptions FW stuff (IMO) is slightly overcosted in most cases. There is a large portion of society that really like consistancy and the "new" post internet way of playing provides a fairly good level of consistancy, to use the FW example it's not like the GW studio stuff is that well balanced but the simple limitation of restricting "official" play to studio rulessets gives a level of consistancy that often gives the illusion of balance.

Wishing
02-10-2011, 08:51
Good point about consistency. I think its true that in this age, players want to be able to know exactly where a game line begins and stops, so they can learn all about it and not be surprised in any situations. Ancient miniatures, although they don't affect rules or gameplay, can give the impression that there is loads of stuff out there that the new players don't know about, which can make them uncomfortable when they thought they were familiar with the game. Mental security and comfort can be a fragile thing!

AndrewGPaul
02-10-2011, 10:42
How else to get back into the hobby? All the people I reach over tha internets play in GW stores... :/
My folks from back then don't play any longer...it is truly frustrating....

@Wyrmwood
you are spot on! those are the ones, and I didn't even bring the strange ones ;)

regards

tuo

Are there no games clubs in your area? Or even a facebook page?

Blink
02-10-2011, 10:55
I feel you man. I came into the game at the end of 4th, and even I am subject to the same ridicule for things like converting a Deceiver to have a Carnifex crab claw and random guy's head.

People can get ridiculously anal about the weirdest stuff if it differs from the norm. But hey, tell you what, there ARE people out there like me who would play you pretty much no matter WHAT you brought if it's what you love. If you're ever in the Southern California area, send me a private message, and I will gladly give you a few good games.

Chem-Dog
02-10-2011, 17:23
The problem I am facing is that I really have trouble playing at my local GW store. My first problem was the people refused to play me because I am fielding "non GW-models". I tried to explain for maybe half an hour to the local red shirt that those models (about 15% of my marines) are Rogue Trader era Chaos Space Marines.

Try looking for the models on here (http://www.solegends.com/citadel/index.htm), perhaps a printed page with the very recognisable 40K style (prolly about the '91 mark) and Citadel branding will make your case for you?

Helicon_One
02-10-2011, 21:13
For a number of reasons, GW stores aren't really the best places to actually try and play games.

See if you can find yourself a gaming club nearby.

cool-kid-on-the-block
04-10-2011, 13:49
yeah try and find a non-GW gaming club. they are under no obligation to use only GW models and normally consist of a more mature group of players.

ehlijen
04-10-2011, 14:50
I did not intend to attack the OP.

You say you met some of your friends through the hobby. That can happen again, it just will be a slower start. I disagree with the idea that that is not possible in GW stores, but I do admit that it may be easier in gaming clubs.

While the demonstrated attitude of not believing you that your GW models are GW models is indeed frustrating at best, there is one other factor at work here I think: GW is currently engaged in a legal battle with another company (chapter house studios) claiming they have been illegally copying GW designs. I can easily see how staff might be told to pay more attention to not letting non-GW models into the store in this current situation. Add in that the staffer didn't know his GW history and yeah, that thing that happened to you unfortunately happens.

It still sucks, just maybe not all the blame should be on the staffer.

As for the terminators, I'd recommend getting the bigger bases anyway, just because if I remember the old metal chaos ones right, they liked tipping over forwards, didn't they?

Anyway, I hope you find fun opponents soon, whereever you chose to look.

LonelyPath
04-10-2011, 14:52
I've never had a single problem with using RT era models in a GW store, even if the staff haven't recognised them (normally because they were born around or after the time the models were available and hence never encountered them), but I have had issues with the "your termies are on the wrong bases" malarkey, in fact it got so bad (even though I could prove by showing the bottom of the base they they were on tabs and also took old catalogues to show them on 25mm bases) I ended up rebasing the entire lot onto 40mm bases.

I;'d have no problems with the LRs having their LC on top if the player was still measuring LOS and range from the side, having them on top is a aesthetic choice, not a tactical one.

SamaNagol
04-10-2011, 16:21
1: Base sizes dont really matter outside of competitive play. Competitive play doesn't happy in 'hobby centres' as GW calls them. So I see no reason why you can't use your models. If the staff are young and ignorant of your classic collection then go on StuffOfLegends website and pull up the relevant Citadel Catalogue pages displaying your figures. Just cos the models are OOP doesn't mean they aren't GW stock.

2: If, and that is only if, you choose to play in tournaments then the rule is you must base your units on the size bases they are currently sold with. You cannot purchase a Terminator on a 28mm slottabase in 2011 I am afraid.

3: There's a good non-GW gaming community in Germany. I am not sure about your local area, but definitely search for gaming clubs near you and pop down for some games. Most gaming clubs often have websites and forums or boards you can arrange games in advance on.

BigBarryJazz
04-10-2011, 17:17
You cannot purchase a Terminator on a 28mm slottabase in 2011 I am afraid.

You've just got to know where to look (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440279a&prodId=prod1101932). Could be more but that's the only one I know off the top of my head.

Kaelarr
04-10-2011, 17:44
Well just my 2p...... I use RT era plague marine - because they are the best plague marine models gw has ever done. Even in tournaments people dont complain. Noone batted an eyelid at the UK Masters.

I also use the original metal deamon prince models as they are also, the best prince models gw has done imo. But i did have an interesting "altecation" with another player at a tournament over these. The judge then went on to point out in the fluff that they were the same size as a dreadnaught, which is fine. They were replaced by dread models with no arms as a size representation as the opponant was unhappy. The opponant then complained to the ref that the size representations were smaller then the Princes and that it was unfair.... So I guess the moral of the story is tell these people to grow up, or let them make themselves look like a complete idiot :P

At the end of the day it is your hobby, and your army is what you want it to be.

The one concession I must make is that base sizes do now matter a lot more then they used to - but only for deploying from a vehicl / deep strike and for IC's getting models into them in CC. Other then that it really makes no odds at all...

Kaelarr
04-10-2011, 17:47
Oh also, those metal terminators? They are still sold, by GW, on 28mm bases ;)

Rated_lexxx
04-10-2011, 18:29
to solve the issue if your modals are actual GW modals couldn't you just look online?

IcedAnimals
04-10-2011, 19:16
Sounds like you just weren't confident enough in the way you told the GW employee the models were GW sculpts. My cousin to this day uses his cardboard dreadnaught for the sole reason of hearing people complain. The model is 100% legal and he has had a guy concede the game in a tournament because he felt cheated by that model alone.

(I almost agree with the guy but it is still funny) I custom made my emperors champion out of spare bits from the black templar conversion kit and a spare book from my canoness. 100% GW and I had a guy complain it wasn't the actual emperors champion model. (It looks nothing like any other model in my army)

I almost look forward to hearing people complain that my necron immortals are on small bases compared to the rumored terminator base they are suppose to get.

On another note, didn't the rogue trader models have "GW *year*" printed on their stand?

After the 3rd complaint I think I would have yelled at the guy "Dear lord you complain a lot, if you don't want to play concede the game pick up your models and leave, im not forcing you to play this game"

PANZERBUNNY
04-10-2011, 20:12
As annoying as it is, I think it's fair that current GW staff aren't 100% educated on models out of production since before they joined the hobby.

I think the main reason the people you remember played you and this new crowd doesn't, is that they knew you. The current gamers are used to things being a certain way and then someone with models older than their interest in the game turns up and asks them to accept models they don't recognise as official, 'incorrect' base sizes as official and tank layouts as different from what they are.

Yes, it sucks for you, but don't just write them all off as 'not fun'. That's not giving them the chance you asked them to give you. Sure, they may not turn out to be fun opponents after all, but don't pidgeon hole them based on one first meeting where you clearly caught them off guard.

Try bringing in an old WD with pictures of your models maybe? Ought to at least convince the staff member.

Google is their friend. Pretty sure they have net access in the store.

PANZERBUNNY
04-10-2011, 20:16
I did not intend to attack the OP.

You say you met some of your friends through the hobby. That can happen again, it just will be a slower start. I disagree with the idea that that is not possible in GW stores, but I do admit that it may be easier in gaming clubs.

While the demonstrated attitude of not believing you that your GW models are GW models is indeed frustrating at best, there is one other factor at work here I think: GW is currently engaged in a legal battle with another company (chapter house studios) claiming they have been illegally copying GW designs. I can easily see how staff might be told to pay more attention to not letting non-GW models into the store in this current situation. Add in that the staffer didn't know his GW history and yeah, that thing that happened to you unfortunately happens.

It still sucks, just maybe not all the blame should be on the staffer.

As for the terminators, I'd recommend getting the bigger bases anyway, just because if I remember the old metal chaos ones right, they liked tipping over forwards, didn't they?

Anyway, I hope you find fun opponents soon, whereever you chose to look.

They have stated that a certain % of a converted model can come from a non GW source.

Chapter house makes shoulder pads and other small bits. That's really nit picking and going against their own rulings.(not that it would stop them though.)

amijp
04-10-2011, 20:34
This is a very relevent thead to me, I have in fact given up playing any GW/model based game outside of my group of friends, due to nit - pickiness, trolling, rules bashing and all sorts of rubbish like this distracting from the fun of the game.
My father has a classic story where he walked out of a local gaming club after he was told nobody would play him because his Napoleonic french troops were painted WITHOUT BUTTONS ON THEIR TUNIC, and so were distracting from the realism. This was on 1/72 4
scale figs now. I ask you.

Its very rare I find to actually enjoy a game these days, as when playing strangers I'm always afraid of slightly misunderstanding some rule, and getting an aggressive, condesending lecture on the rule set, instead of some friendly advice.
It's things like this that ruin the hobby, give it a bad name. And it's the anoraks that rule bash, and can quote the rulebooks back to front to catch out unwary players, who play for the laughs and the fun of it, that give the hobby such a geeky, nerdy appearence.

No offence meant to anyone of course, it's just I don't know what's become of the hobby this last decade, turned into a proffesional sport it seems, rather than a good bit of fun.

minionboy
05-10-2011, 01:34
I've been playing the game for 16 years now and as much as I love the old minis, I think they have their own place. If you're going to a competitive event, you should be expected to be using the up to date equipment.

I don't think you'd be able to play in the NFL if you used this equipment:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Jim_Thorpe_football.png

I'm not saying that you should throw out all your old models, but I'm just saying that if terminators are on 40mm bases now, it's time to rebase your guys if you want to use them competitively. I play with all my friends with models from various eras and in a friendly environment there is no problem, but if I go to another tournament with someone using his 2nd ed Tyrant as a swarmlord, then blocks LOS to it with tyranid warriors or zoanthropes, I'm going to go crazy.

BTW, I do love the old turreted epic landraiders, it's too bad forgeworld hasn't made one yet.

amijp
05-10-2011, 02:12
I've been playing the game for 16 years now and as much as I love the old minis, I think they have their own place. If you're going to a competitive event, you should be expected to be using the up to date equipment.

I don't think you'd be able to play in the NFL if you used this equipment:


That's different though, you'd not be allowed to use that equipment either due to safety regulations, as the game has developed over the years it's perhaps become necessary to wear the modern kit. Also, if you turned up to a profesional NFL game wearing that equipment, you'd be smashed apart. So it's due to necessity that you'd wear the modern equipment.

None of those reasons apply to wargaming figures, so your argument isn't valid...good try though

chromedog
05-10-2011, 07:21
We have several players in my club who have 'legacy' armies.
None of them have been turned away from a game.

Some of us also have stuff like them. We explain to the snobs (who, without exception are late 3rd ed "converts") that these are in fact "GW" models (even though many of the sculptors have moved on and now have their own companies) and that they are "older than they are" and we go back to our beers and wardollies.

There is also no tournament rule in force here that states that models HAVE to be the latest version and/or on the "current" bases.

prowla
05-10-2011, 09:50
I'd accept ANY figures thrown in front of me, as long as it meets the current army standards on three levels:

1) It's clear what the model stands for
2) It is roughly the size of a current model OR you can easily show/measure what size a current model would be / where weapons would be
3) It's on a current size base OR you can easily show/measure what current base size would be.

IMO, model dimensions are a part of it's "statline" and the advantages/disadvantages of size are counted into the points cost. In my view, radically altering the dimensions is basically the same as inventing your own statline.

chromedog
05-10-2011, 09:59
Why?
Fantasy doesn't even do THAT anymore.

AndrewGPaul
05-10-2011, 10:25
Fantasy hasn't done that since 3rd edition Warhammer Armies. Other than that, it was only a single summary sheet printed once in White Dwarf during 6th edition that listed official base sizes. Other than that, it's nasically boiled down to "what size of base does the model fit on?" Terminators and Mega-armoured Nobz didn't get bigger bases for rules reasons, they got them because the miniatures got bigger and wouldn't fit.

Wishing
05-10-2011, 10:27
You've just got to know where to look (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440279a&prodId=prod1101932). Could be more but that's the only one I know off the top of my head.

Hah, well done, I didn't realise they still sell those. So there is at least one officially 28mm based terminator still in the game, among the sea of ogryn bases. :)


Fantasy hasn't done that since 3rd edition Warhammer Armies. Other than that, it was only a single summary sheet printed once in White Dwarf during 6th edition that listed official base sizes. Other than that, it's nasically boiled down to "what size of base does the model fit on?" Terminators and Mega-armoured Nobz didn't get bigger bases for rules reasons, they got them because the miniatures got bigger and wouldn't fit.

I have to disagree there. Terminators are only fractionally bigger now than they were back then, and still fit fine on 28mm bases. They are still human height and width after all, their suits aren't ogre-sized. The reason they got bigger bases, in my view, was that GW felt this would make them seem more like ogres or trolls and therefore help justify a higher pricetag. Then afterwards, they started sculpting them with longer and wider leg stances so they would look slightly less silly on the oversized bases.

AndrewGPaul
05-10-2011, 10:39
"Then afterwards, they started sculpting them with longer and wider leg stances"

Huh? The (current plastic) ones with the wider stances were the first ones on 40mm bases, apart from Logan Grimnar, and he was the first for several years. He did need the 40mm base - technically he fitted on a 25mm base, and mine was based as such, but he kept falling over all the time. Now I've got him back on his proper base he's much more stable.

What size base to Eldar Jetbikes come on these days? I've seen them supplied with 30 and 60mm bases over the years - again, purely for stability.

The Clairvoyant
05-10-2011, 10:44
I'm yet to have anyone complain about my army. Ok, I have mounted my old 1989-era termies on 40mm bases now, but they're a little swamped by their bigger bases! But no-one has complained.

My land raiders are all Mk1 which admittedly do have a smaller footprint than the modern equivalents, but they are taller than the new ones, so it works a both ways. Mostly people just love to see old models rather than complain about them.
I have a techmarine on a jetbike which i just say is a normal bike and swap him for one of my normal bikes (though again, they're the old metal ones) when LOS becomes an issue.

Axeman1n
05-10-2011, 10:59
All of my HWT's are mounted on 60mm bases. They look better. Even though many of my Lascannons are very old, the only comment I get is a question of if they are Autocannons or Lascannons. I used to take no autocannons, but now that I've started taking them again, I may get more evil stares.

To the OP, the hobby is definately less friendly at GW stores than at non-GW stores. I feel that the overly agressive Redshirts create an environment of hostility towards people who may be bending the rules. If you make a habit of going, you'll find the bad eggs. The staff will become educated, and may warm to you when you start buying stuff.

Dryaktylus
05-10-2011, 11:23
Hah, well done, I didn't realise they still sell those. So there is at least one officially 28mm based terminator still in the game, among the sea of ogryn bases. :)

They sell some Deathwing and Chaos Terminators as well, both in the normal Elites section (and the metal Terminator Captain (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1491098&prodId=prod1050241) in HQ, though he's a bit tricky to find).

Grok
05-10-2011, 11:26
Dunno about the guys at your store but I LOVE old classic models. Not for how they look, cause we gotta admit, most of them look terrible compared to the new ones, but because of the nostalgia about it. Its pretty fun to have a piece of the game's history in your possession, even if no one alse seems to put much thought into it.
Its just me, but I love collecting the old OOP GW models. And I would have been very keen to play against your army.