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View Full Version : Is a small unit of White Lions worth it?



leecutter
03-10-2011, 14:52
I currently have a big unit of pheonix guard and a big unit of swordmasters. I was thinking about taking 10 white lions, no command, to help counter tough threats and monsters and or draw enemy units into a forest to make them lose their steadfast?.... I don't really know if this is a good idea.... feedback?

Oogie boogie boss
03-10-2011, 15:20
High Elves are never worth it, but if you insist on collecting them, then i'd say you have enough elite infantry with the Phoenix Guard and Sword Masters. I'd spend the extra points on some bulk Spearmen and/or archer units. White Lions won't really bring enough variance to the table.

hobbs3023
03-10-2011, 15:31
ooooh, look! A troll...



High Elves are never worth it, but if you insist on collecting them, then i'd say you have enough elite infantry with the Phoenix Guard and Sword Masters. I'd spend the extra points on some bulk Spearmen and/or archer units. White Lions won't really bring enough variance to the table.

badguyshaveallthefun
03-10-2011, 15:40
High Elves are never worth it, but if you insist on collecting them, then i'd say you have enough elite infantry with the Phoenix Guard and Sword Masters. I'd spend the extra points on some bulk Spearmen and/or archer units. White Lions won't really bring enough variance to the table.

Contrary to popular belief, some people like to collect armies because of the models or fluff, not because said army is "competetive", responses like these only tend to show the ignorance of the person posting.

And white lions do bring some variance to the table, they bring a stubborn, strength 6 elite unit to the table that is more resistant to shooting than any other elf unit in the book.

I would definately take a small unit. They're great against units of knights, small T4 units, and with the flaming banner make good hydra/HPA assasins. As with any other unit in the book though, you have to be careful what you send them against, as larger steadfast units will destroy them (just like any other unit in our book however).

EDIT:

ooooh, look! A troll...

And I fed it too....

Oogie boogie boss
03-10-2011, 15:58
Lol, i should point out that the collecting High Elves thing was a joke, sorry if that didn't come across :p.
And i personally love collecting armies for the fluff, themed armies are great, i was just saying that in an army which already has two big units of elites, White Lions in a small unit may be points better spent elsewhere.
They're lovely models, and extremely tough, but as tough as they are, i think a unit of ten will have limited effect, and more Core troops might be a better spend.
But if you like the models and it fits with the theme of your army, then they can b great monster hunters/supporting troops.

leecutter
03-10-2011, 16:05
well I have already spent 625 points on spearmen for 2500 at this point so I feel anything more now should be elite units.

Oogie boogie boss
03-10-2011, 16:07
Ah, fair enough. How about a Dragon?! :D

badguyshaveallthefun
03-10-2011, 17:06
Lol, i should point out that the collecting High Elves thing was a joke, sorry if that didn't come across :p.


Ahh... My mistake then, you definately sounded a bit abrasive in your original post, and I apologise for my comments, I have a low tolerance for ignorance :).

@ OP: I still think small units of either white lions or phoenix guard (but more so white lions, because they hit so much harder) are great as harassing units. Use them against monsters, fast calvary, warmachines, anything small enough for them to be able to butcher quickly.
Or a noble on eagle?? Or some Dragon Princes?? Or a Tiranoc chariot or two??

Oogie boogie boss
03-10-2011, 17:14
No worries, my bad for not adding some sort of winking/smiling face to make it clear. I don't like people who make snap, broad-stroke statements, or who approach things with the whole 'my opinion is right, thus all others are wrong' perspective.
As to the question, i'd rather go for a fast unit like great eagles to inhibit marches and attack war machines. But then i don't play HE, only ever play against them, so i'm looking at this from the opposite perspective.

metalloveman
03-10-2011, 17:54
15
flamer banner
musician
done
your welcome OP

a min dragon princes unit(with the fire) would fill a similar role, only faster and not stubborn

popisdead
03-10-2011, 18:23
10 White Lions with the Banner of Flame is an EXCELLENT idea to attack HPAs, and the likes. They hit on 3s with a re-roll, wound on 4s and no save? What doesn't sound good taking down HPAs with that?

I am a big fan of MSU still and I have seen good generals use it effectively.

EnternalVoid
04-10-2011, 02:15
From experience I generally never want an elite unit of high elves below 14. And if it is Phoenix Guard I generally take it even larger.

14 White Lions with muscian, standard, and the Banner of EF is a little less then 250pts. The reason I generally don't do Swordmasters and White Lions below 14 is because it limits my options. Lets say I am going after a Hydra or HPA, I would go 5 wide, giving me those back 4 before I lose a single rank, thus maintaining my attacks. Also if they are swordmasters rather than White Lions, I have to lose 10 before I lose my front rank and thus Steadfast against the target. That is not impossible for either of those monsters, but at the very least it is harder then killing 6 they would need if I went with 10. This means likely I have two turns to kill the target rather than just one.

Also should I be facing Cav, I can fit 7 white lions or swordmaster against a 5 across unit. So that is 14 attacks for the White Lions or 21 attacks for the swordmasters. Even against normal blocks I can do this to maximize my attacks against 5 across units.

The other reason I like 14 for monster hunting is that if they are not softened up they can often go through two monsters through out a game rather than just one.

In White Lion case you can even go a bit mean and really think to prevent attack backs and try to hold up a horde for an extra round or two by denying them attacks and being stubborn.

abdulaapocolyps
04-10-2011, 06:21
Hi all.as someone who plays against high elves all the bloody time I'd say yes,small lions units are viable.
Elves are a bugger for Target saturation just cos they are all to easy to shoot down.what with lions being harder to kill with shooting and them only being a small unit they could be fine.
One thing-keep them out of the line of sight of warmacines.especially organ guns!

ftayl5
04-10-2011, 10:13
High Elves are never worth it, but if you insist on collecting them...
Bahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaaa! :p

In all seriousness, go horde or go home. A unit of 10 or 15 is just so easy to kill or at least neutralise with shooting and magic (3+ save or not). Add the flaming banner and yes, this unit will be good for taking out HPA's, Hydras, Varghulfs etc etc but at the same time if the opponent has any significant shooting, you're basically handing them an easy 200pts

I think it would be a better idea to spend those points on beefing up another unit.

diggerydoom
04-10-2011, 10:26
fighting against HE I have found that a unit or two (depending on points of game) of around 6-10 can be quite annoying. The ASF with the great weapons is enough damage output to spoil the day of wizards, bsb etc and as a small unit they are also useful to anti skirmisher (chameleon skinks and salamanders in my case) Depending on your play style and army composition they can be worth it.

Scythe
05-10-2011, 06:45
Bahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaaa! :p

In all seriousness, go horde or go home. A unit of 10 or 15 is just so easy to kill or at least neutralise with shooting and magic (3+ save or not). Add the flaming banner and yes, this unit will be good for taking out HPA's, Hydras, Varghulfs etc etc but at the same time if the opponent has any significant shooting, you're basically handing them an easy 200pts

I think it would be a better idea to spend those points on beefing up another unit.

White Lions, with their 3+ save versus shooting, are surprisingly resilient versus ranged attacks. Templates do way more damage against bigger units anyway, and small arms fire isn't that popular these days (and they can take quite some punishment of that either way). Even magic missiles aren't that common with the most poplar lores lacking the good ones.

'Go horde or go home' is nonsense. You don't need hordes to win. Hordes have some mayor weaknesses themselves, like vulnerability to the (extremely common) template/blast based war machines, and unit affecting spells. Hordes are decent, but hardly invalidate smaller units. White Lions, in particular, are excellent as small units, with their always strike first, high strength, possible magic banner and stubborn. They'll usually remain in combat till the last elf.

Chaos Undecided
05-10-2011, 11:20
As others have pointed out they're a unit that can perform very well in small numbers for specific tasks only point of caution I'd say is be cautious if facing armys with units that kick out multiple impact hits or your Lions may end up as little more than a speed bump.

lacurra
05-10-2011, 14:50
i personally love the WL's. generaly in my HE lists i take a small block of PGs who are basically there to babysit my wizard and take a good block on WLs

KSpen
05-10-2011, 17:29
Sorry if I come across as ignorant. But even fluff wise theyre all wrong.

I mean S4 elves with massive axes! No brutish orc mainstay hits this hard! or even the IGs.

And a 3+ armour save, cmon, these guys are hunters? dont think there are many beasts sporting multi barrelled handguns in their cosy little island.

Now I got that off my chest. I regulary play against them. Like every game! as my mates a HE general. Now he fields them with a mage or BSB with a 2+ ward vs magic. Theyre unstoppable!

I know it doesnt really answer your question but, make the SM/PGs smaller and big up these guys. He hordes 30 +3 armour vs shooting and 2+ vs magic makes me sick.

But I got a smile on my face when I blasted them off the board by turn 4 with my 2x8 Leadbelchers Hu Hur Hur...