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View Full Version : Comped Fantasy Tournaments - What are actually concessions??



Mannfred
04-10-2011, 13:29
I'm planning on taking Warriors of Chaos to a upcoming 2500pts fantasy tournament but with in mind that there are army comp scores the last thing i want is to have my opponent across the board looking at my list and going wow you really have no soul and just want to crush my hobby....

Warriors of Chaos have always been like a top tier army since the revision of 8th ed and honestly i understand that they are, the army has some pretty dodgy combos...but lets say i did want to use the infernal puppet that alot of people despise and feel is broken...what sort of trade offs would i have to make in my army so i at least make it seem valid that i'm taking the item....

Does themed armies really make a difference? The marks system ofcourse is designed to boast certain units in the army like obviously tzeentch for wizards, khorne for warriors, slaanesh for marauders and nurgle for pretty much everything...but if i was to take a pure slaanesh chaos army would that allow me to take harder elements in my army such as maybe double warshrine or like hellcannon?

What about not taking magic at all and a battle standard also? Could i then take double hellcannons while still be given a balanced comp score??? What about taking like an all mounted list??? Could i then take perhaps like an unkillable tzeentch lord (Chaos Lord, MoT, Preservation, Crown, Disc and etc)

Just wondering what everyone thinks??

ewar
04-10-2011, 13:34
Isn't there guidance from the tournament organisers? These things usually (in the UK & Europe) publish comp rules/guidance.

If not... then it will depend completely on the whims of your opponent. Which I'm guessing will be more/less lenient depending on how the game goes. Hence why soft comp scores are a horrible idea...

tmarichards
04-10-2011, 13:40
Warriors as an army are fine provided you stay clear of double Hellcannon and double Shrine ChosenStar.

Wargamejunkie
04-10-2011, 14:46
As tmarichards mentioned those are the two "biggies" to avoid. Anything beyond that and I think you would be unnecessarily handicapping yourself. Given this is without any comp limitations from the organizers.

If you are trying to go above and beyond the standard don't mix marks in the same unit. A step higher than that would be not to have rival gods in the same army. So a Tzeentch/khorne or Tzeentch/Slaneesh force given your samples.

Sexiest_hero
04-10-2011, 20:51
Don't take the mark of Tzeench and you'll be fine. It's that mark on anything that starts to cause trouble.

Jormi_Boced
04-10-2011, 21:10
I would stay away from a Gateway FTW list too. I think if you do any sort of mono god list you will get some theme pts.

Don Zeko
04-10-2011, 21:59
I would stay away from a Gateway FTW list too. I think if you do any sort of mono god list you will get some theme pts.

With the exception of Tzeentch, I agree. But mono-tzeentch basically just means you give up on MoK GW marauder hordes. Those guys are great, but you can have a plenty hard list without them.

RandomSpecific
05-10-2011, 07:39
i say screw the whiners.

honestly by allowing whiners to dictate what you take only encourages them to continue whining and bring everyone down to their level.

take what you like, and if thats chosen star or double hell cannon and puppet or any other combo you can think of then do it and ignore any flack.

its a tournament. your supposed to win.

that said if theres specific comp rules then your obviously bound by them..

when comp scores allow a beaten opponent to get one over on you by bringing your overal score down just cus you gave them a kicking then the games reached a sad point.
those who cry and mark you down should be brought into line with you not the other way round, encourage them to take harder lists etc.

all mon or mos and your gimping yourself and weakening your list over all. mot and mok are the best (nearly always with some exceptions), thats just the way it rolls and anyone who bitches about anyone using them is not looking at the bigger picture imo.

martijn
05-10-2011, 07:51
bit harsh when you put it like that but okay. you do have a points if you ask me.

Tournements are there to bring your most hard-ass list and to get a game on a high level. Competative doenst mean it can't be fun, a sporting opponent still makes the game worthwhile. If you want to play friendly games, dont go to tournements i guess.

Adder007USA
05-10-2011, 13:49
My honest recommendation....

It's not that any one particular item is broken, it's if you have several in combination. The infernal puppet, while a definite pain in the neck, is only outright disastrous if you have anything that can force a miscast, such as the black tongue or pandemonium. Now...if you run a heavy khorne list, I'd almost go as far to say the infernal puppet is fluffy. They despise reliance on magic, so it would make sense for them to have a way to negate its impact on the battlefield. If you're however running a list that not only ruins your opponents magic phase, but then beats them over the head with magic in the same breath...that's when I think the cheddar starts to show.

martijn
05-10-2011, 15:12
talking of cheddar... apperently you cant put cheddar between toast in a toaster. the molten cheese ruined the whole thing..... :(

anyhow, I'm still wondering if it's really that bad to bring such combinations to tournements.

Akkaryn
05-10-2011, 15:25
The only things in my opinion that should be comped are the things that work together in ways that gw didn't intend.

Or things that are so difficult to deal with it gives one specific race too much advantage. (I have never met anything in this category myself as there isn't much one of the big daddy spells won't deal with.)

After all in a competitive environment you expect people to do their best to win. (you don't for example see Mr Bolt only wearing one shoe in the 100 meters to give other people a chance)

The issue for me comes with people wanting to try different lists that are not as competitive but still want to win.

Of course in a friendly environment things should be comped if only to provide more fun games. We have a rule in my gaming circle that if you win 3 times in a row the other people can nominate a magic item or unit that you can't use till you have lost a game.

popisdead
05-10-2011, 19:20
Comp is just a subjective measure to balance a tournament out more. If you only want to go into a tournament to win, take the top army you can build. If you are willing to to in with the army you have, fully aware of the issues with balance in Warhammer there shouldn't be a cry for comp. Everyone has the chance to bring the worst.

Lebowski
06-10-2011, 01:20
yea. tourneys without comp is just a cheese competition. if you take a soft list and you have to face a tooled up slann with LoLife or a Grave Guard star, you will just be pissed and alone on that pedestal which is never fun... unless you are into that kinda thing.

Malorian
06-10-2011, 01:24
yea. tourneys without comp is just a cheese competition.

Those are some broad strokes you're making...


I find the prize is the most important factor to the level of cheese, not the comp.

If the prize is minor than more people will go with fun lists, however if there is a large prize even heavy comp won't stop people from bring the best list possible (it will just change to be the best list possible that's allowed by the comp).

Lebowski
06-10-2011, 01:32
Valid point! Sadly, most the places I play tend to go heavy on competitiveness as long as there is a ranking of any sort... I just assumed it was a norm! played 40k for 6 years and fantasy for a couple. This is what I have encountered at every tourney I have been a part of!