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Sicarius the 2nd
04-10-2011, 23:28
I was just wondering like the title says, what do you think makes a good project log? I myself have started a few logs in my short time on this forum but i always get the same results of minimal replies and feedback. So why is this, i have recently been going though varous logs to see what i am attraced to and what i dont like. I am not one to read loads of writing, maybe abit of info and some captions for the pictures, but the images are what i need. The pictures though, what do you photo, boring wip/pip, or finished units/models. What do the people of warseer want to see in our projct logs!?

Andy

ForgottenLore
04-10-2011, 23:51
Can't speak for anyone else, but the project logs are all by themselves in a separate section down toward the bottom of the list.

Warseer is too big and active a forum for me to look through everything, I just check out new posts in the LotR, 40K and GW general section and have collapsed everything else so I don't even really see it.

If each section had its own forum for project logs, Fantasy logs, 40K logs, LotR logs I think they would get a lot more traffic.

Ditto for rules development, but that is probably a topic for another thread.

Solun Decius
05-10-2011, 00:24
There are two questions:
1) What makes a project log good?
2) What generates traffic to a project log?

I like to see finished stuff, not just WIP or conversions but actual fully painted stuff. WIP is necessary to keep the updates regular but finished things should be a fair portion. Regular updates aren't even that important in a good thread. I often wait to comment on threads until something is finished or at least further along, even though I already have nice things to say about it.

For the second question the answer lies in this being a community and people returning like with like. Do onto others etc...
So to generate traffic post on other people's threads. It helps to have links to yours in your signature.
If you generate traffic AND your log is good then you'll get comments and subscribers and with subscribers you'll get more regular comments but you'll have to keep participating in the community to get others participating in your thread. Now you also start wanting to update your thread more regularly to keep traffic up but at the same time you may be diluting your thread with too much WIP. Or not, some people love WIP. In certain threads I can't get enough WIP but in others I ignore posts until something's finished.

Very difficult questions with individual answers. I've often thought about this myself and I always find logs that completely contradict my thoughts on the matter.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Schmapdi
05-10-2011, 01:12
I would say:
1) Good quality pics
2) Semi-frequent updates, but not too many.
3) Keep it focused - I don't follow mixed project logs unless you're a top-notch painter.
4) Reply to people that post. Even if it's a quick "thanks"
5) Give it a catchy, descriptive name - and put a link to it in your sig.

New Cult King
05-10-2011, 03:45
I would say:
1) Good quality pics
2) Semi-frequent updates, but not too many.
3) Keep it focused - I don't follow mixed project logs unless you're a top-notch painter.
4) Reply to people that post. Even if it's a quick "thanks"
5) Give it a catchy, descriptive name - and put a link to it in your sig.

That's pretty much what I would suggest too. Lots of people like lots of pics :)

scarletsquig
05-10-2011, 03:46
Good, large, well-photographed pictures of well-painted models.

herbtarkel
05-10-2011, 06:09
Good, large, well-photographed pictures of well-painted models.

That's what I look for. The stuff has to wow me to keep my interest. Average stuff just doesn't get a second chance. By no means am I saying that I'm a great painter or anything. Just like I won't waste my time on crummy writers, I only want to read good books!

Darsc Zacal
05-10-2011, 07:33
All the previous posts here have useful ideas on how to keep people interested in your plog. However from reading your original post and looking at your low post count I think that you might be having problems in attracting viewers to your plog in the first place.

I know for myself that I don't have the time to go through every single plog in the hopes I'll stumble across one that'll interest me. Although sometimes I do check out the New Posts tab to do just that. The majority of plogs I follow are those of posters whom I've gotten to know through their posts in various forums I frequent here on Warseer.

I think that by being a bit more active in the main forums here, you can raise your profile. Once more people get to know you and see that they share similar interests and opinions with you, you might find your viewership begin to expand.

Good luck!

EmperorNorton
05-10-2011, 09:27
Pictures are important.
If I see a new log and there aren't any pictures, just text describing what one might see there one day, I probably won't check that log again.
It's the same for logs where the pictures are posted as attachments. Yes, that one click is too much effort. You want me to look at and comment on your stuff, upload it properly.

Progress is important.
A log should document that a project is progressing. WIPs are fine as far as I'm concerned, because one can learn from them. But things should get finished.

Courtesy is important.
If somebody comments on your log, post a reply. If somebody poses a question, try your best to answer. And if your regular visitors have a log of their own, pay those a visit, too.

And now you should all check out my logs to point out to me how little I adhere to my own guidelines...

Grimmeth
05-10-2011, 09:35
I quite like a well structured index post on page one - if it's edited regularly and kept up to date as to what pages I can see painted units, WiP etc it's much easier to navigate around the PLog.

Sicarius the 2nd
05-10-2011, 13:10
Thanks for your input guys, looks like I may have to restart/restructure my salamander log when I return home! NEED big pictures from the start!
Andy

Easy E
05-10-2011, 15:24
I'm going to tell you the elephant in the room.

Unless your log has something extraordinary in it, no one cares. Essentially, you won't get much traffic unless you can paint at Eavy Metal or better, sculpt as good or better than a professional GW sculptor, or convert/scratchbuild as good or better than professional GW designers, or are as funny and witty as a professional comedy writer. If you can't do that, the community won't give you much attention.

Sad but true. Wargamers are a bunch of elitists. Me included. You can only look at the same Space Marine tank so many times before it becomes repetitive.

The only way you can get around this, is be a good member of the community, by going out and find other logs with low traffic and post things up there. People will return the favor and check out your logs in return.

Jo-Jo
05-10-2011, 16:23
Uniqueness. Just remember that VERY well painted count as unique to me to!

ForgottenLore
05-10-2011, 18:15
I quite like a well structured index post on page one - if it's edited regularly and kept up to date as to what pages I can see painted units, WiP etc it's much easier to navigate around the PLog.
For myself I only ever look at the latest posts in a thread. Updated first posts will be missed entirely.

that said, it is probably still a good idea, but if you do that make sure you index by post number, not page number. On many forums you can adjust the number of posts that appear on a page so the page count will not be accurate for everyone. for instance, the necron rumor summary thread

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5824702#post5824702

is on page 22.

Other advice, keep entries short and focused.

Take the time to edit your pictures so they show what you want them to. I can't tell you how many pics of miniatures I've seen that have a mini in the middle, surrounded by a 6" margin of background.

Make sure your photos are clear and in focus. If I can barely identify what the miniature is supposed to be I won't be commenting.

If you post a project that you have already finished but have WIP shots documenting how you did it, put up an establishing shot of the finished work first so we know what it is supposed to be, then put up the WIP shots in the order the work was done.

de Selby
14-10-2011, 17:07
I think easy E has a fair point, but it's not quite as bleak as that. I think it helps if what you're doing has something at least a bit unusual that will interest people. About 50% of replies to my current log are people saying 'Cool snow bases bro' or words to that effect, which is fine, because I'm not some kind of hobby genius. You just have to be realistic about what proportion of people who see your stuff are going to feel the need to respond, and keep working away. A log is still a great way to keep track of your stuff and improve, even if you post update after update and nobody replies.

spetswalshe
14-10-2011, 17:44
I think easy E has a fair point, but it's not quite as bleak as that. I think it helps if what you're doing has something at least a bit unusual that will interest people.

This. If you aren't top-tier of your local club in the painting or converting stakes, then you need to be unique or inspired to make up for it. Equally, if your painting is GW-quality but you just replicate the standard colour schemes, then I for one will have no interest in what you do. If it's a big log then an index page is great. Photos are the most important thing, but I like a bit of written background fluff, as long as you put it in spoilers so that it's unobtrusive (and it's not too long; I won't devote time to reading something of length if I've got no guarantee of how good it'll be).

Ultimately what attracts people is a very personal thing - I love seeing plastic kitbashes (because I'm not hot on GS myself and it's a form of inspiration for me), and I will read anything with 'Mordheim' in the title. On the other hand, if your log consists entirely of Space Marines or scratchbuilts, then no matter how good I'm just not going to follow it. I'm not interested in non-GW models, unless they avoid the standard deformed-woman/generic SpaceGun look (which not many do). I love a good Necromunda log, but it's so much easier to check out the Fantasy forum than it is to trawl through the numerous sci-fi ones for something that interests me.

The first thing to remember, though, would be that you are doing the project log for yourself, not for the attention of others. It sounds a bit trite (what is putting photos on the internet if not a way of getting attention for your work?) but logs have always been a good way of motivating yourself and reviewing your own progress, even if no one replies.

mrtn
14-10-2011, 19:10
I agree with Solun Decius and EmperorNorton. Both have nice logs, btw, even if Norton should get treatment for his buying habits. ;)

Harry
15-10-2011, 10:37
Good question.
I have always been surprised by the success of my log.
I am not a great painter by the standards of many on this forum.
It is absolutely not all about being a great painter.
But I must have done something right to attract the replies I have.

If I look at this helpful list:


I would say:
1) Good quality pics
2) Semi-frequent updates, but not too many.
3) Keep it focused - I don't follow mixed project logs unless you're a top-notch painter.
4) Reply to people that post. Even if it's a quick "thanks"
5) Give it a catchy, descriptive name - and put a link to it in your sig.
1) I have used big pictures from the start. (The quality has improved as I got better at taking pictures. Good pictures is huge ... it is what most people look at.
Also I have always gone to the trouble of clearing up my painting table and taking pictures against a plain back drop.
I visited your post and even though I can see you have sorted the big picture thing your minis are lost against the backdrop of the painting table.
2)I was painting like a mad man when I started so I made very frequent updates. (I was also involved in the Tale of painters with several armies so had a lot going on for a couple of years on my plog) I was showing things as WIP one week and finished a couple of weeks later.... this helped ... if you visit the logs regularly and keep seeing the same logs getting traffic you check them out to see what all the fuss is about.
3)My log couldn't be more general and varied so I am not sure this is a factor.
4)I have replied to every single post that has ever been made on my plog. Even if it was just to ay thanks for the comment. I have answered every question. When people have taken the time to make a long post i have taken the time to give a full and complete answer.
5)My title does not give much away ... but I know I have checked logs out based on the title to see what it was all about. I guess if you call it "More bog standard Ultramarines straight out of the box" you will not attract much passing traffic. :D

Here are some other factors I think have helped.

6)When I have had the time. Every time I posted on my log I posted on the top ten logs in the forum. Whether they we old or new, rated high or not, getting lots of posts or not. I just spread the love.

7)I also used to try and check out the logs of people who were posting regularly on my log (if they had a link in their sig) Just to return the favour as a thanks for the support.

I'm glad I did ... I found some great logs and great members of the community.

8)I think people comment on things that attract comment ... I think three things attract comments ... great painting (This is not the case with my stuff. Great ideas ... (sometimes) ... great hobby projects. I think this is part of my success.
If the painting is great people will post to say well done. If the ideas are great people will post to say what a great idea ... If you get involved with a great hobby project people want to chat about it and take an interest in how it develops and come back again and again to see how it is progressing

My advice .... Do something bonkers.

9)Be a teacher ... There are some great logs I enjoy where guys take the time to explain how they achieved their results. Often in simple ways. People like Jamie Olivers cooking shows ... not because he is the best cook but because he de-mistifies the whole cooking process and makes it seem like you can achieve the same results. If I come up with a simple way of doing something I have shared it. If I come up with a great result I tell people how I did it. Because this is something I have always enjoyed and valued on other people logs.

10)Be a learner ... ask questions. Seek advice from the community. People will answer you questions. (look at this thread) Be keen to learn from the community ... they will be keen to teach. Be ready to take the advice and show how it has impacted on your painting ... this way people will really feel they are engaged in the project and having a positive impact.

Finally

Have fun. I have loved all the interaction with the community, I have made friends through my log. I have always had a laugh and engaged in banter with people posting. If when you visit somewhere you have a good time ... you want to go back again.

All the best,
Harry

bert n ernie
15-10-2011, 12:58
Just a very quick reply (might write more later) but if there isn't at least two pics of near fully painted units in the first post I'll probably pass.

Just saying. Despite the fact that my log doesn't have this. Doh!

snake-eyez
20-10-2011, 07:09
To sum it up simply, this was a good terrain project log to follow;

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285904

ihavetoomuchminis
20-10-2011, 12:14
I would say:
1) Good quality pics
2) Semi-frequent updates, but not too many.
3) Keep it focused - I don't follow mixed project logs unless you're a top-notch painter.
4) Reply to people that post. Even if it's a quick "thanks"
5) Give it a catchy, descriptive name - and put a link to it in your sig.

I agree with it.


Good question.
I have always been surprised by the success of my log.
I am not a great painter by the standards of many on this forum.
It is absolutely not all about being a great painter.
But I must have done something right to attract the replies I have.

If I look at this helpful list:


1) I have used big pictures from the start. (The quality has improved as I got better at taking pictures. Good pictures is huge ... it is what most people look at.
Also I have always gone to the trouble of clearing up my painting table and taking pictures against a plain back drop.
I visited your post and even though I can see you have sorted the big picture thing your minis are lost against the backdrop of the painting table.
2)I was painting like a mad man when I started so I made very frequent updates. (I was also involved in the Tale of painters with several armies so had a lot going on for a couple of years on my plog) I was showing things as WIP one week and finished a couple of weeks later.... this helped ... if you visit the logs regularly and keep seeing the same logs getting traffic you check them out to see what all the fuss is about.
3)My log couldn't be more general and varied so I am not sure this is a factor.
4)I have replied to every single post that has ever been made on my plog. Even if it was just to ay thanks for the comment. I have answered every question. When people have taken the time to make a long post i have taken the time to give a full and complete answer.
5)My title does not give much away ... but I know I have checked logs out based on the title to see what it was all about. I guess if you call it "More bog standard Ultramarines straight out of the box" you will not attract much passing traffic. :D

Here are some other factors I think have helped.

6)When I have had the time. Every time I posted on my log I posted on the top ten logs in the forum. Whether they we old or new, rated high or not, getting lots of posts or not. I just spread the love.

7)I also used to try and check out the logs of people who were posting regularly on my log (if they had a link in their sig) Just to return the favour as a thanks for the support.

I'm glad I did ... I found some great logs and great members of the community.

8)I think people comment on things that attract comment ... I think three things attract comments ... great painting (This is not the case with my stuff. Great ideas ... (sometimes) ... great hobby projects. I think this is part of my success.
If the painting is great people will post to say well done. If the ideas are great people will post to say what a great idea ... If you get involved with a great hobby project people want to chat about it and take an interest in how it develops and come back again and again to see how it is progressing

My advice .... Do something bonkers.

9)Be a teacher ... There are some great logs I enjoy where guys take the time to explain how they achieved their results. Often in simple ways. People like Jamie Olivers cooking shows ... not because he is the best cook but because he de-mistifies the whole cooking process and makes it seem like you can achieve the same results. If I come up with a simple way of doing something I have shared it. If I come up with a great result I tell people how I did it. Because this is something I have always enjoyed and valued on other people logs.

10)Be a learner ... ask questions. Seek advice from the community. People will answer you questions. (look at this thread) Be keen to learn from the community ... they will be keen to teach. Be ready to take the advice and show how it has impacted on your painting ... this way people will really feel they are engaged in the project and having a positive impact.

Finally

Have fun. I have loved all the interaction with the community, I have made friends through my log. I have always had a laugh and engaged in banter with people posting. If when you visit somewhere you have a good time ... you want to go back again.

All the best,
Harry

I even agree more with it.



I'm going to tell you the elephant in the room.

Unless your log has something extraordinary in it, no one cares. Essentially, you won't get much traffic unless you can paint at Eavy Metal or better, sculpt as good or better than a professional GW sculptor, or convert/scratchbuild as good or better than professional GW designers, or are as funny and witty as a professional comedy writer. If you can't do that, the community won't give you much attention.

Sad but true. Wargamers are a bunch of elitists. Me included. You can only look at the same Space Marine tank so many times before it becomes repetitive.

The only way you can get around this, is be a good member of the community, by going out and find other logs with low traffic and post things up there. People will return the favor and check out your logs in return.

I don't agree with all. I don't think the attention has anything to do with extraordinariness (invented word?). I have a problem when visiting logs. I usually visit those wich are qualified with 5 points..... and most of them are disappointing in terms of quality. I expect to see what you've described as elitism, and i rarely can see it. So no...quality isn't a factor :(

Hrw-Amen
20-10-2011, 16:07
Well I have quite a few and I am not a good painter. I like conversions.

I do like to only post finished stuff though mostly.

The main reason I make project logs is that I quite like looking at them. I don't really care much for huge write ups although a little detail is nice. What I am looking for is interesting ideas. (I post mine as I ssume others are looking for the same?)

If I see lots of WIP shots or just standard models I am unlikely to go back no matter how well they are painted.

If I see an interesting idea that is OK painted but a good conversion I will probably take a few more looks and maybe comment.

I feel that some good encouragement is always best and although constructive critisism can be good, getting your work slagged off is never fun. If I have nothing good or useful to say then I simply don't comment.

What I don't tend to look at are all the bandwagon ones that start up just after a release, they tend to be quite boring really and show lack of imagination as a rule. At least that is what it seems to me.

EmperorNorton
20-10-2011, 17:10
I agree with Solun Decius and EmperorNorton. Both have nice logs, btw, even if Norton should get treatment for his buying habits. ;)

Hey! :mad:
I resemble that remark! :eek:

MalusCalibur
20-10-2011, 17:44
My personal pet hates regarding project logs are empty first posts and thumbnails/attachments.

If you're going to start a project log, always have something to show in the opening post, not just a text summary of what you plan to do. I won't read paragraphs of explanatory text or background without something to pigue my interest.

Never use thumbnails or attachments for pictures. There's no reason to do it and would put me off looking at them - it might only be a couple of clicks per picture but when there's 6-8 of them in a single post it presents far more effort than is needed.