View Full Version : Venom blade and aggy question

05-10-2011, 18:37
If im honest why is aggy better than venom blade. Venom blade is cheaper(5points) and better with 2plus poision whilst aggy is 20points and only 4 plus poision correct me if im wrong but it has just occured to me:shifty:

05-10-2011, 18:45
The agonizer ignores armour saves. 50% wounds against all enemies (before invulnerable saves, which both weapons have to deal with) has a significant value.

Someone else can show you the math, but while the venom blade is nice against 6+ or even 5+ armour saves, it gets less valuable as armour saves get better, even with the 2+ wound.

Lord Damocles
05-10-2011, 18:52
Plus the Venom Blade stacks less effectively with Combat Drugs (re-roll to wound mainly).

The Venom Blade is the weapon of choice against GEQs, but against ememies with a higher toughness and/or better save (cf: Marines), the Agoniser is more efficient.

The Agoniser isn't poisoned, by the way.

05-10-2011, 18:54
Personally I'm a fan of both because I believe they fill different roles. Yes the Venom blade is cheap but not ignoring armour can be quite important. I find the "aggy" overkill against gaurd but against Terminators or Death guard with both 3+ armour and FNP, I'd want to be sure. I might also favour the aggy against monsterous creatues since things like Wraithlords don't have a Inv save.

I see the Venom blade as a good way or massacring the chaff while the Aggy will get through the armour on things that matter. Only being 4+ poison is a pain though

Dorn's Arrow
05-10-2011, 19:23
It's 4+ to wound at all times, NOT 4+ poison.

05-10-2011, 20:01
Oh I see. Did not know about ignore armour saves. I suppose, against heavy armies aggy and for bad armour saves venom blade.

Question: Is aggy poision or not?

Ace Rimmer
05-10-2011, 20:07
As posted above, Agoniser's are not poisoned weapons, they are power weapon's that always wound on a 4+, meaning no re-roll's for S > T (not that many people have a T low enough for that to happen).

05-10-2011, 20:12
More, if it was a poisoned weapon, the Lhamean would actually be pretty damned good.

05-10-2011, 20:14
But Lhamean does it says deadly toxins blah blah 2 plus poisioned, just checked lol

Ace Rimmer
05-10-2011, 20:18
a Lhamean makes hers and the archon's poisoned weapons become poisoned (2+), but the aggy isn't a poisoned weapon, so it's still 4+.

05-10-2011, 20:22
I dont know why everyone says Llhamen bad when they are good with their poisined weapon. For instance you can equip any weapon on Archon that is cheap and will be upgraded to 2 plus poision which is cheaper and good. If you have huskblade-soultrap .... NO!. lol

Lord Damocles
05-10-2011, 20:25
For instance you can equip any weapon on Archon that is cheap and will be upgraded to 2 plus poision which is cheaper and good. If you have huskblade-soultrap .... NO!. lol
The Lhamean only upgrades poisoned weapons on the Archon to 2+.

So Venom Blades (redundant) and Splinter Pistols.

05-10-2011, 20:32
if all venom blades rended like with the Duke, it would be worth it (but they would be more expensive, maybe 10 pts?, 15?)

05-10-2011, 20:36
I get your point, useless!!! unless your going for long range....

05-10-2011, 21:18
if all venom blades rended like with the Duke, it would be worth it.

Dude, they wound anything with T on 2+, and reroll missed to-wound rolls against T<= 3 (or 4 via furious charge). That's quite worth 5 points - and in the case of the Lhamean, she comes with Kabalite stats, venom blade and 2+ poisoned pistol for 10 points. That's dirt cheap.

05-10-2011, 21:30
Thats what I mean but just cant explain, when I saw court of archon LLHAMEN!!!LOL

05-10-2011, 21:38
Long Range? 12"? The pistol is the only poisoned ranged weapon the Archon can get.

06-10-2011, 01:18
I generally favour the agoniser. Ignoring armour is a big deal. If your archon is running around with Incubi there is probably a case for leaving it, after all there are a lot of power weapon attacks there already. That said, the ability to always wound on a 4+ does help with those high toughness targets that also boast a respectable armour save, although generally I think these are better shot at if possible.

Regarding the Lhamaen, I think she is under-appreciated. The hand weapon/pistol combo gives her 3 attacks on the charge that wound on 2's. This is only marginally worse than an Ur-Ghul against GEQ and about the same against MEQ. Add in the splinter pistol shot before charging, however, and she actually outperforms the Ur-Ghul against both. That said she does lack FNP as standard, and the Ur-Ghul can damage vehicles when charging thanks to furious charge, so its not a clear cut distinction. Either way she is reasonable for the price I feel.

06-10-2011, 01:53
didn't agonisers have a chance to hurt vehicles in the old codex?

Nurgling Chieftain
06-10-2011, 02:28
Yeah, but it was only a glance on a 6. I never did anything significant.

06-10-2011, 02:42
rather use their grenades

06-10-2011, 19:06
If you had to pick an expanded unit from court of archon which would it be llhamen , urghul etc?

Nurgling Chieftain
06-10-2011, 19:23
Oh, Lhamaean, definitely. Point for point they are brutal. I wouldn't hesistate to replace most of my wyches with lhamaeans.

07-10-2011, 17:39
Same, but the bad thing is there unit comp.
I am suprised no-one has said Ur-Ghuls...