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macbeth
14-04-2006, 09:21
I was not sure about where to put this, but after all, it's a kind of tactic...

Anyway, while reading my rulebook, I found a small sentence in the appendix that puzzled me. It said that normally it's a disaster when you fail a charge, but that sometimes it could be useful. As such, it is forbidden to declare a charge when it's obvious that you cannot.

So here comes my question : How on earth can it be interesting to miss a charge? How could it be that it is favourable to charge and fail rather than simply walk ? I've been thinking about it, I've looked into books to see if there was some obscure unit or special character who would fit the description, but I found nothing.

So, is this situation possible?

skuller
14-04-2006, 09:32
As such, it is forbidden to declare a charge when it's obvious that you cannot.

So here comes my question : How on earth can it be interesting to miss a charge? How could it be that it is favourable to charge and fail rather than simply walk ? I've been thinking about it, I've looked into books to see if there was some obscure unit or special character who would fit the description, but I found nothing.

So, is this situation possible?


is not forbidden per se to declare a charge at any given point, you just declare it and make or fail and just move half the intendend distance.
When is favorable to fail a charge maybe when you have a unit of spearman or pikemen and you fail to reach with your charge at least u know that youree going to fight with the whole rank special rules

:0) mk.II
14-04-2006, 09:48
Duh!

Declare a stupidly long charge at a Warp Lightning cannon across the table. Odds are it will go off the table edge because it has to flee from charges. :D

McMullet
14-04-2006, 11:16
One that came up in this forum was declaring a charge that you know will fail, but the failed charge allows the unit to move forward before other charges are moved. Thus, if one of your units is blocking another of your units from charging, you declare a charge that will fail from the blocking unit, it moves forward a bit, and the other unit now has a clear path.

skuller
14-04-2006, 12:10
One that came up in this forum was declaring a charge that you know will fail, but the failed charge allows the unit to move forward before other charges are moved. Thus, if one of your units is blocking another of your units from charging, you declare a charge that will fail from the blocking unit, it moves forward a bit, and the other unit now has a clear path.
not sure about that, I thouth the rules work this way first you declare all your charges that hae a valid target ie can and have line of sight and then you start moving all your chargers. So if one of youre units is bvlocking line of sight to another you declare all your legal charges and proceed to move them according.

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-04-2006, 12:12
No. You move all your charges in the order you declared them in, whatever they succed or not. So it can make a huge difference actually.

And then there is the WLC of course. And skuller it's against the rules to declare a charge that will 'obviously' fail.

DeathlessDraich
14-04-2006, 12:29
Hi

McMullet and MkII: Unfortunately both your suggestions are regarded as bad sportsmanship even though they might be technically legal. Both issues have been extensively discussed in the rules forum and most player do not use them.

On the original question of a favourable failed charge:
1) This is a tactic employed by most Tomb King players - Declare a charge which looks as if it might succeed and then if it fails use magic to charge. If the charge succeeds, it will be a bonus. Therefore near miss-charges are never a hindrance and can always be declared.
2) The Fast Cavalry failed charge against the faster unit which blocks the slower units - for almost the same reasons. If it reaches the target, then it is a succesful charge; if it doesnt and fail, then it blocks off charges and if a charge is declared against it (by slower units), it will flee and rally immediately, enabling other units to flank the failed chargers!

Both tactics are not the answer to your question, Macbeth but the closest I can think of.

Mad Makz
14-04-2006, 22:59
Essentially, there aren't MANY, but there are some, such as the aforementioned warplightning cannon and thedeclaring a charge with a unit the would otherwise be blocking another units charge when it is obviously out of range to get it to move in the move charges phase rather than the remaining moves phase. Occassionally this would be beneficial to a player, and there may well be more specific instances in a given game where it would be VERY useful. As it's impossible to account for all these the appendix just is covering very clearly that it is against the intention of the rules to try and use the Move Charges phase to move units that couldn't reasonably make a charge - or to force any sort of charge reaction upon an opposing unit (Fear, Terror, Must flee because it is a Warplightning Cannon) on a unit which you obviously could not actually charge.

MarcoPollo
14-04-2006, 23:34
The charging the WLC cannon from a long distance is similar to overguessing with cannons IMHO. My friend(sometimes a friend) plays empire and he was chronic abuser of overguessing with cannons. Fortunately, he is also a SAD player and I decided that what was good for the goose was good for the gander and I chronically overguessed my charge range with some puny warhounds. Well, he whined and moaned for an hour about the illegality of this move. It was bad sportsmanship and all that, until I pointed out his hipocrissy. That didn't go over well either.

Now he is better at not abusing the rules so much.

Kordos
15-04-2006, 07:21
On the original question of a favourable failed charge:
1) This is a tactic employed by most Tomb King players - Declare a charge which looks as if it might succeed and then if it fails use magic to charge. If the charge succeeds, it will be a bonus. Therefore near miss-charges are never a hindrance and can always be declared.

Yup I do that alot with my tomb kings and its very hand cause sometimes it's hard to tell how far away two units are

Mad Makz
15-04-2006, 07:27
Yup I do that alot with my tomb kings and its very hand cause sometimes it's hard to tell how far away two units are

Yes, failing a charge isn't much of a hindrance to tomb kings because of the magic phase, but I wouldn't exactly call it a tactic. :)

I certainly know it's not a tactic for my Chariots, because if they fail a charge they can't shoot (and I like them to shoot if I don't get the magical charge off, sure it's only 3 or 4 shots hitting on 5s at strength 3, but it's the principal!)

Kordos
15-04-2006, 07:45
lol yeah not really a tactic more wishful thinking

macbeth
16-04-2006, 14:39
Well, I had not thought about psychology, but it's true. Charging with a terror causing monster can make the target flee if it fails it terror test, regardless of the success of the charge...

Thanks anyway, I've at last understood the interest of failing a charge!

Crazy Harborc
16-04-2006, 19:02
Maybe every game I have watched or played was done wrong but.......A charge is declared, reaction of the charged is in part dependent on the charging being able to be completed. Never have seen a unit flee from a charge that was to short on distance (when measured) to succeed.

I have seen games where the charged unit fled because the general/player wanted it out of the way.

DeathlessDraich
17-04-2006, 12:22
Maybe every game I have watched or played was done wrong but.......A charge is declared, reaction of the charged is in part dependent on the charging being able to be completed. Never have seen a unit flee from a charge that was to short on distance (when measured) to succeed.

I have seen games where the charged unit fled because the general/player wanted it out of the way.

The sequence stipulated in the rulebook is
1) Declare Charge
2) Charge Reaction
3) Measure distance
4) Fear Test