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Kahadras
07-10-2011, 12:47
Archmage + extra level, Talisman of Preservation = 305

Dragon Mage + extra level = 385

19 Lothern Sea Guard + FC = 267
20 Lothern Sea Guard + FC = 280

10 Sword Masters + FC = 180
5 Ellyrian Reavers + bows = 105
5 Dragon Princes + FC = 200
Chariot = 85
Chariot = 85

Bolt thrower = 100

The Archmage goes in the Sea Guard. The two Sea Guard units and the Bolt thrower provide some firepower for the army while the Chariots and Dragon Princes provide mobility. At the moment the list is made up of what I own or can get my hands on a short notice. Comments and sugestions would be welcome though as I haven't used High Elves in 8th edition yet.

Kahadras

W.J.J.O.
07-10-2011, 13:15
If you really want to take Sea Guard, take on big unit of 37 with full command: 506 points well spent, that is only 6 points over the minimum that must be spent on Core while playing with 2k armies. Or take 40 Spearmen and some archers. LSG and Archers are not going to kill many models with S3 bows, so the really aren't worth their price.

Take Folariath's Robe for the Archmage, it - literally - protects him from anything, except from magical attacks and Magic. Much better than a 4+ ward.

Your Sword Master unit will die before it even gets to the combat. Increase the units size somehow, or they will be shot down in a single turn. Maybe you should drop one Tiranoc Chariot and get more Sword Masters?

Morax
07-10-2011, 14:11
If you really want to take Sea Guard, take on big unit of 37 with full command: 506 points well spent, that is only 6 points over the minimum that must be spent on Core while playing with 2k armies. Or take 40 Spearmen and some archers. LSG and Archers are not going to kill many models with S3 bows, so the really aren't worth their price.

Take Folariath's Robe for the Archmage, it - literally - protects him from anything, except from magical attacks and Magic. Much better than a 4+ ward.

Your Sword Master unit will die before it even gets to the combat. Increase the units size somehow, or they will be shot down in a single turn. Maybe you should drop one Tiranoc Chariot and get more Sword Masters?

+1. I like the LSG as a core for high elves as it seems rather fluffy and can be effective when they are properly buffed. WJJO is absolutely correct in saying that you will want them in one unit instead of 2, much more effective that way.

Forlariath's robe is indeed the defensive equipment of choice for a high elf mage. The dragon mage will also need defensive gear as the dragon he is riding on is best in close combat. The talisman of preservation would do however I would also suggest that failing that defensive gear he should be toting the silver wand or the seer staff. The additional spell or being able to choose your spells in the lore of fire can go a long way in your battle plan. Doom and darkness on the level 4 and burning head on the dragon mage is a nice combo. Fulminating flame cage is a great spell for rooting those annoying steadfast to infinity units. Getting these when you want them can go a long way.

your swordmasters will indeed die quickly as they are the only heavy hitting threat you have. I would drop not one, but both chariots in favor of more of them. 170 points would double the size of the unit and formed up 7x3 with the archmage in the unit they will put a hurting on things. Give the archmage the lore of life and they will be durable enough to reach combat in good order. You also keep mobility in the army with the dragon princes/mage. Both of which can make hard hitting flankers.

I am not a fan of the bolt thrower in a high elf list but some people swear by them. I'd give it a go and see how you like it and what it does for you and make up your mind from there.

Kahadras
07-10-2011, 18:03
Cheers for the advice so far.

I did have a plan with the two units of Sea Guard. The one which was acting as the bunker for the Archmage was going to be deployed long and thin to provide maximum fire support and avoid to many casualties from templates. A direct hit from a template and a miscast or two would see the big unit quickly decimated.

My decision to go with the straight ward save rather than the Robe was the idea that it would give me some extra protection against miscasts but as both magic items cost the same (IIRC) I'll probably experiment with both.

I'll probably drop the Sword Masters altogther and funnel the points into something else (I'm not sure what). I might take a magic item or two extra and put the rest of the points into another Bolt thrower. I was thinking of the Silver wand for my Archmage to improve his chances of getting the spells he wants from whichever lore I go for (probably Shadow) and probably a defencive item for the Dragon Mage to keep him alive when he hits combat.

Kahadras

xise
08-10-2011, 06:22
Archmage + extra level, Talisman of Preservation = 305

Dragon Mage + extra level = 385

19 Lothern Sea Guard + FC = 267
20 Lothern Sea Guard + FC = 280

10 Sword Masters + FC = 180
5 Ellyrian Reavers + bows = 105
5 Dragon Princes + FC = 200
Chariot = 85
Chariot = 85

Bolt thrower = 100

The Archmage goes in the Sea Guard. The two Sea Guard units and the Bolt thrower provide some firepower for the army while the Chariots and Dragon Princes provide mobility. At the moment the list is made up of what I own or can get my hands on a short notice. Comments and sugestions would be welcome though as I haven't used High Elves in 8th edition yet.

Kahadras

I see big problems with your list when you're up against a deathstar.

Even if you are planning on just avoiding engaging a deathstar and killing his other vps, I think you need something in there to at least tarpit the deathstar imho, and I'm not sure you have it. You do have some redirects though and that's a start.

Maybe consider adding some white lions? Their stubborn can be invaluable.

Kahadras
08-10-2011, 14:30
Against the deathstar I'd probably have to go down the 'magic it to death' route using Pit of Shades, Purple Sun or the like to whittle it down. I don't really think I can put down a unit that could match a deathstar with what I have.

Kahadras

Kaiser1983
08-10-2011, 15:43
I think the list is good but I would swap the LSG for Spears and Archers. LSG I have found are a waste of valuable points especially when it comes to HE

Kaiser1983
08-10-2011, 15:45
also save your self some more points and get rid of the FC in the Dragon Princes. Your spending 50 extra points for no magical standard or magical item for you champion. You could get an eagle with that or use it else where.

Kahadras
08-10-2011, 17:04
also save your self some more points and get rid of the FC in the Dragon Princes. Your spending 50 extra points for no magical standard or magical item for you champion. You could get an eagle with that or use it else where.

I was concidering adding a banner and small magic item to the Dragon Princes. I have a few points spare and after droping the Swordmasters I could afford it. I was thinking about the Flaming banner to help me deal with any regenerating units.

Kahadras

thesheriff
09-10-2011, 09:46
I was concidering adding a banner and small magic item to the Dragon Princes. I have a few points spare and after droping the Swordmasters I could afford it. I was thinking about the Flaming banner to help me deal with any regenerating units.

Kahadras
The Issue with giving small cavalry units banners is that as soon as they flee, the model with the banner dies. This isnt such a big deal in an infantry unit (as you might only lose 1 model in a unit of 40). But in cavalry, you auto lose 20% of your models. This severly hampers your fighting effecivness post-flee.

thesheriff

Kahadras
09-10-2011, 15:08
Fair point. Well if I ditch the Sword Masters and the standard bearer from the Dragon Princes that leaves me with 210 points to spend on the army. Anybody have any recommendations?

Kahadras

thesheriff
10-10-2011, 19:06
Fair point. Well if I ditch the Sword Masters and the standard bearer from the Dragon Princes that leaves me with 210 points to spend on the army. Anybody have any recommendations?

14 Swordsmasters.

Morax
11-10-2011, 14:14
14 Swordsmasters.

+1. Swordmasters are your unit with the highest damage output most of the time. The also need no buffs to improve that output which is huge. Thier weaknesses of low T and low armor saves are an army wide problem so should already have some sort of fix in the army. There is a reason they are used so frequently. Personally I prefer units of 21 for 3 ranks of 7. This formation gives them a bit more staying power and the ability to soak a bit more damage. Also if you are using magical buffs to bolster the army wide T3 problem then you are only buffing one unit of 21 instead of trying to buff 2 units of 7/14. The swordmasters however don't really need command elements. This changes if you need to give the champion a magical item (not a bad place for the skiensliver) or you need an extra banner or place for a magical banner (not the best place for a banner of sorcery but not the worst either).

thesheriff
11-10-2011, 18:22
+1. Swordmasters are your unit with the highest damage output most of the time. The also need no buffs to improve that output which is huge. Thier weaknesses of low T and low armor saves are an army wide problem so should already have some sort of fix in the army. There is a reason they are used so frequently. Personally I prefer units of 21 for 3 ranks of 7. This formation gives them a bit more staying power and the ability to soak a bit more damage. Also if you are using magical buffs to bolster the army wide T3 problem then you are only buffing one unit of 21 instead of trying to buff 2 units of 7/14. The swordmasters however don't really need command elements. This changes if you need to give the champion a magical item (not a bad place for the skiensliver) or you need an extra banner or place for a magical banner (not the best place for a banner of sorcery but not the worst either).

Units of 21, with the extra rank, are less effective IMO. Sheriff explain;

*7x3 gives a roughly 2.5 width from front to back (60mm) . Therefore, templates against them are idiot proof. One of the greatest strengths of taking 1-2 ranks is screwing with Mortars, face on teardrops (looking at you sallys) and stonethrowers. And a plethroa of others. Widening them does not always increase there durability by 1/3rd. Against most metas, quite the opposite.
*Bigger units look more threatening. So, more fire are directed at them. This could be seen as good on one hand. But, thats what White lions are for. Taking it "like a champ". T3, 5+ units that clock 15pts each need to look insignificant. Otherwise, they get raped.
*I would rather have 3 unist of 14 than 2 unist of 21. More attacks man! More flexibility. Thats what counts in 8th (that, and overpowerd magic, big units and irrationality).

Pyriel
11-10-2011, 18:32
i see big problems with your dragon mage.
i dont think it can ever work. i have tried dragon mages so much, and the only thing that works is a davu-like approach:think of wave serpents in 40k: get a cheap-ass unupgraded unit(say, 5 dire avegers) as a mere excuse to get the powerful transport, and only ever realy use the transport.

an *actual mage* riding a dragon cannot and will not be properly protected. i dont think *using the obligatory mage* can work.
want dragon mage?get a sun dragon.you also get a cheap lvl 1 mage riding him as an excuse(not an actual caster) for the dragon to have a dispel scroll. now THAT, while slighty overcosted, is definitely useful.