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dementian
08-10-2011, 09:10
Hey guys, I am a new player playing a Skaven army and had a battle against my friends WoC army

We battled at 750 and I had considerable difficulty dealing with his Chaos Knights 1+ armor save. At the time I didn't realize that if he were to roll a 1 for his armor save he would fail it so that will help alleviate the issue of nigh invincible opponent.

So I am curious how other Skaven players deal with high armor saves. My magic was not effective (Scorch and warp lightning and my doomrocket too...) this battle and unfortunately I messed up and my one Skavenslave group ended up blowing up my plaguewind mortar (who failed his earlier shot at them) And my WLC only taking out like 1 Warrior and 1 Knight. Most of his groups had the Mark of Slaanesh so I was never able to get anything panicking.

I had a group of gutter runners with slings and poisoned attacks that can get off some poisoned hits for instant wounds but I was wondering what other methods people are using to deal with Chaos Knights and Warriors with high armor saves as Skaven.

Cheers,
Dementian, Clan Pestis

Akkaryn
08-10-2011, 09:41
Although I've never played warriors with my Skaven. I did have the same problem with dragon princes.

The best answer I come up with was either take them out of the game with slaves. (Although at low points value this isn't a viable option) Or use Plague spells. Lowing their toughness combined with poisoned attacks generally means they take enough hits to fail more than enough saves.

I find using a doomrocket on them to be a waste. That is much better used for mass troops that don't get saves from it.

If you can angle a slave unit so that your Warp Lightning Cannon can hit them in the flank (And thus hit every model) If you can get a decent strength hit you can take the majority of the unit out in one swoop. Of course you are just as likely to blow yourself up.

Rosstifer
08-10-2011, 10:07
Hellpit causes me problems if its kept away from my unit with the flaming banner. Eats Knights for Breakfast. Dreaded 13th spell is AMAZING against Chaos Warriors, for when you get to that point level. Jezzails might be able to punch through that armour at lower point games.

SVKBaki
08-10-2011, 10:54
as others said warp lightning cannon is the best answer, plague spells (all of them ignore AS), poison wind globadiers, poison wind mortar is possible, maybe jezzails can be effective (S6 which will reduce their AS to 4+ which is manageable), gatling can be effective as well, but better to stick with plague, poison wind and warp lightning

kurisawa
08-10-2011, 11:07
Maybe the solution is to stick them in a combat against deeply-ranked units, beating them with CR rather than actually killing them?

dementian
08-10-2011, 16:35
Hey guys thanks for the answers, most of these things things were things I figured would work pretty well but didn't pan out.

My WLC only killed 1 knight off the bat and 1 warrior later. I just dont seem to get the rolls I need to freaking hit anything with it hehe.

At low point costs I would need to field a plague priest to get plague spells, if I was doing this should I pick up a group of plague monks to put into the army as well, with the low point costs I am playing at currently I don't feel like I can really bring enough of my Killy-things into the battle.

And my bunkers for my leaders end up being REALLY weak. I was fielding 2 x 40 slaves and I think I want to boost that even more. A BSB is something I want to also try to fit in but 750 points makes it hard to put all this junk in.

Thanks for the help guys.

BaSe
08-10-2011, 16:36
Just hold them up with a big unit of slaves and fire the cannon at them. Simples....

Adasi
08-10-2011, 22:15
The problem might be that you're playing against Chaos Knights at 750pt games!

Seriously! The only use of games at this points level is to learn the rules and your oppononet really shouldn't be using 1+ chaos knights at this level.

Just wait till you get to higher levels (like 1500) and start throwing Doomwheels at him!

Rosstifer
08-10-2011, 22:16
At 2000pts you can take 2 Hell Pit Abominations. Just sayin'.

dementian
09-10-2011, 05:16
The WoC player is only playing with his WoC Battalion so I am not gonna complain about what he is fielding. Just learning the game and what the important targets I should be hitting with my gutter runners at this point are. If I had fired at the Knights with my 7 gutter runners I could probably get some poison procs.

SkawtheFalconer
09-10-2011, 10:29
A unit of 8-10 Jezzails will see off a small unit of Knights in no time flat. Or at the very least majorly reduce their effectiveness.

Praznagar
09-10-2011, 12:25
Censer bearers can also be quite effective, knights hate losing 1/3 of their front rank before getting to strike! Though when they do strike there won't be many censer bearers left...

PeG
10-10-2011, 10:54
If you are not limited by the number of models you bring you can always bring really big blocks of troops. Even WoC will have trouble killing enough to break steadfast and as long as he is only using the battalion only the marauders will actually have more then one rank.

I dont play skaven so I am not sure about base sizes but I guess that horde clan rats with spears would do on average slightly less then one wound / round. The number of dead rats will drop fast if you can get their numbers down a bit. Even a single wound from a WLC is significant for that unit.

dementian
11-10-2011, 00:35
Just knowing that he will still take a wound if he rolls a 1 even with a 1+ armor save will be a huge help.

kylek2235
11-10-2011, 01:11
Just knowing that he will still take a wound if he rolls a 1 even with a 1+ armor save will be a huge help.

Yep, now horde those little vermin and pokes them in the eyes till they dies of it! Shouldn't be too hard

popisdead
13-10-2011, 00:10
I've always found the best counter to high save Knights is combat res and it comes down to cheap steadfast. How many Rats can you buy in Steadfast for the cost of his Chaos Knight unit?

I've watched every type of Knight bounce off my Gors this edition. Granted Gors are pretty good at killing things and can be S5 with lots of attack and Hatred, it tends to be the turn the Knight player flubs his rolls that they break and run.

dementian
13-10-2011, 02:05
Ah I think we were playing that Mark of Slaanesh gave immunity to break tests too but just looked it up and woohoo he can still break!

Malorian
13-10-2011, 02:46
Ah I think we were playing that Mark of Slaanesh gave immunity to break tests too but just looked it up and woohoo he can still break!

:wtf:

So you played them as knights that can't fail their armor save and can't break?

No wonder you had problems with them... :rolleyes:

Please tell me the WoC player is just new and not cheating... cheating is suppose to be the job of the skaven ;):p

dementian
13-10-2011, 02:51
Oh we are most definitely new. He hasn't even had a look at the rulebook I have only read through the small IoB rulebook once so I am the basis of a lot of the rules but pretty much every turn we are browsing for how to deal with what just happened. Not that his Knights were going to break considering they only had to beat a static combat res of 3.

EDIT: Like I said we are new so I thought panic tests were what was caused at the end of combat resolution.

Also I think I have this figured out but if a unit only suffers a panic test for losing 25% of models in shooting/magic situations not while in CC and just that the wounds that are caused will be added in for combat resolution?

Tarian
13-10-2011, 03:04
Or for things breaking w/i a certain range, getting charged by terror, etc. That said, with a firmer grasp on the rules, you'll do a lot better.

dementian
13-10-2011, 03:53
Heh looks like I am kind of hijacking my own thread. So if a unit panics or breaks then all units within 6 inches must take a panic test as well. But if the new unit fails its panic test it doesn't cause other units within 6 inches of it to have to take a panic test right?