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eldarlordx
14-04-2006, 18:05
What do you think is the best army for cityfight and why?
personally I think eldar awesome snipers good close combat elites.

23rd elysian
14-04-2006, 18:13
IG with camoline cloaks for ultimate cityfight goodness. (wouldnt play against them unless cloaks were modelled otherwise its a bit cheesy)

Kjell
14-04-2006, 18:18
Night Lords are supposedly pretty good for cityfights, too. Getting +1 to your Cover save and having greater than usual access to Raptors could very well come in handy. I'm not sure if pure Night Lords or LatD with Night Lords allies would be "best", though.

russian
14-04-2006, 18:42
wytch cult, as there is less shooting and their safer in combat most of the time there wont be much shotting in their direct at all,

also SoB as the acsess to so many flamer weapons makes a mockery of cover especially against hordes

pablofiasco
14-04-2006, 19:42
after looking it over, i would imagine a pure Deathworld vetern list would be fairly nasty,

reason: lots of flamers, heavy flamers,
in addition to the ambush rules that many of the units can take advantage of (if agreed to before hand of course)

plus some rock hard assualt units (compared to normal gaurd) and some nifty sniper tricks

plus the shear amount of mortors you can take, let me tell you i have had mortors win games in current ed. cityfight

lordbeefy
14-04-2006, 19:46
IG can be really adaptable...the old cityfight rules allowed them to split their squads into 2 x 5 man units, one with the heavy weapon, one with the special....it made for some very handy firebase units covering advancing units.

The sheer amount of special weapons the IG can field can also be devastating. With vet squads packing 3 melta guns or similar, and the IG's access to grenade launchers adding to the bonus of cover saves bestowing the gaurd with semi-reasonable saving throws, you can really surprise some opponents.

damz451
14-04-2006, 20:15
deathwing of course, there designed for urban combat

RampagingRavener
14-04-2006, 20:25
I might be biased, but I'm gonna plump for Tyranids. They won't be slowed much by difficult terrain since they have the "move through cover" ability, all those buildings just help block LoS to the synapse creatures, its a haven for Lictors with all those buildings, and Biovores can squat happily on top of a building with little risk of getting shot at.

I'm looking forward to Cities of Death. :evilgrin:

Gaebriel
14-04-2006, 20:28
Witch Hunters shouldn't fare bad with lots of Flamers, and Heavy Flamers. As well as their main disadvantage - scarce longe range firepower doesn't come to bear.

x-esiv-4c
14-04-2006, 20:30
Deathguard!
Hey...Nurgles-rot...come on.

RampagingRavener
14-04-2006, 20:43
Nurgle actually might be pretty good. T5 and a 3+ save means that they can move though killing feilds and surive quite a bit of fire, less reliance on vehicles means that theres less chances of plans being thrown to pot due to a broken axle, and plenty of close-range plasma, melta and flamer makes for efficiantly pushing people out of dug in positions. And nurgles rot. ;)

Tanith Ghost
14-04-2006, 20:59
I've seen Kroot doo quite well in cityfight-the city is just a concrete jungle after all.

Deathworld guard can be absolutely punishing in cities.
As an avid reader of 'The Punisher' I also like how assasins can work in cityfight.

Rypher
14-04-2006, 21:06
Pah. Eldar anyone?
This might stop many people in their tracks though. No more starcannon army of doom. (Well, the cheesy ones)
Try the swordwind, mine particularly, with all units rushing forward to get into range and then assault. One hides and then strikes.

*musings*maybe banshees will make it into combat without dying???*musings*

Heer
14-04-2006, 22:31
Space Marines FTW, they'll own anything, anywhere!

Seriously though, I'll go for IG because of what others have said.

kris.sherriff
14-04-2006, 23:00
My Elysians rocked in city fight, My morters and Heavy bolters pined units and dinied areas while my vets and platoons hit hard with special weapon/ demo charger death.
Ah. Happier times.
Kris

marv335
14-04-2006, 23:02
a scout army can be quite powerful in cityfight. the ability to move through cover can be a real bonus. this coupled with infiltrate can make for a nasty army.

kris.sherriff
14-04-2006, 23:05
a scout army can be quite powerful in cityfight. the ability to move through cover can be a real bonus. thes coupled with infiltrate can make for a nasty army.

The Elysian 73rd would still have had your eyes out though:p

marv335
14-04-2006, 23:09
i've smacked them up so bad, they wished they hadn't been smacked up so bad.
that whole army is blind due to me having their eyes so badly ;)

lee
14-04-2006, 23:12
storm trooper army works great

kris.sherriff
14-04-2006, 23:13
Its ok they all just rememberd that they are 'a leaf on the wind' and that eyes are not required to fly a vulture gun ship up your scout bikers ass:evilgrin:

18 days and I will be off this rock and back up there to administer the kicking all of GW Dundee deserve :p

Wraithbored
14-04-2006, 23:15
MY best bet would still be on Tyranids! Massed gaunts screened by terrain? Infiltrating Lictors AND Raveners not to mention carnifexes stomping safely forward and biovores cutting off routes with spore mines? Gargoyles moving from building to building? Nids are a HORROR to face in the confined spaces of a city.

Also Eldar with CTM's they can dart from buidling to building hitting with impunity!

And IG with infiltrators, snipers, nice big pie plates and let's not forget elyssians.

At least that's how I'd rank em up

Strikerkc
14-04-2006, 23:28
storm trooper army works great

How's that? Their guns get down-graded to las-guns (AP means very lttle in city fight since every one has goog cover saves), and their paying extra for protection that means much less under city fight rules (again with the prolific amount of quality cover saves). Their eassy access to transports is almost a hinderance (city ruble = death to vehicles). And their a realativly poor army under normal circumstances to begin with :(.

Krusk
14-04-2006, 23:34
Doesn't some of that apply to Marines too though? The Bolters get naffed some on AP usefulness, and the cover makes the armor save less valuable.

emperorattack
14-04-2006, 23:38
Imperial Guard because they can use a million advantages that the other races don't need (4+ cover, enemy has to make terrain checks, gun down enemy when they attack because terrain holds them up etc.) and they have deurable tanks like the demolisher meant specifically for cityfight terrain

Master Jeridian
14-04-2006, 23:45
How's that? Their guns get down-graded to las-guns

Has that really ever affected your game? 99% of the time your opponent has either power armour or equivalent, Tau armour or cover. This is a null point IMO since Hellguns are just Lasguns with a better name.


and their paying extra for protection that means much less under city fight rules

True, though with the saturation of flamers that people expect (and probably not happen) you still get an Armour save. 4+ is also valuable in combats, which may be more prevalent in Cityfight.


Their eassy access to transports is almost a hinderance

Access to transports does not mean mandatory transports. Vehicles, especially transports where nerfed in 4th Ed anyway, why should Cityfight be any different.
I'd never put Storm Troopers in transports- you have Infiltrate and Deep Strike as far better movement options.


And their a realativly poor army under normal circumstances to begin with .

We'll have to disagree on this one, though if Storm Troopers have proven rubbish in your normal games I can understand why your sceptical of them in Cityfight.

Other good things about them include frag and krak grenades. You may have to storm a building to claim it, frags are useful then. Of course, with Guard this will rarely happen but still.

With lots of places to hide, and vehicles being forced to trundle down cramped streets never underestimate the power of Str 6 grenades on side or rear armour. This is of course a last ditch effort (as plasma/meltaguns and other units should probably have dealt with the threat), but most people won't expect it.

Targeters, the ability to pre-measure to all units within LOS of the Storm Troopers. For an army that relies on shooting- this is invaluable. It is quite possible to judge ranges for all your army based on what your Storm Troopers can reach.

Strikerkc
14-04-2006, 23:45
Doesn't some of that apply to Marines too though? The Bolters get naffed some on AP usefulness, and the cover makes the armor save less valuable.

But their still strength 4, able to easily wound any basic infantry and just as numerous as the storm troopers hell guns would be. And the while the addition of cover saves makes the marines into miniature terminators (3+/5+) from all the anti marine weapons, the storm troopers will not gain much from a 5+ cover save in the grand scheme of things.


Access to transports does not mean mandatory transports. Vehicles, especially transports where nerfed in 4th Ed anyway, why should Cityfight be any different.

Under normal circumstances it would allow the army to take a lot of cheap and effective medium tanks (chimeras with a shooting payload are almost necessary to help off set a storm trooper army's lack of heavy weapons)


We'll have to disagree on this one, though if Storm Troopers have proven rubbish in your normal games I can understand why your sceptical of them in Cityfight.

Storm troopers added to another army can be very handy. I use them in my Imperial guard as small sized drop trooping tank hunters. But as an army on their own they just don't cut it when compared to an army that has the option of fielding a lot of them (IG, GK, SOB). They all have basic infantry units that are either much better at doing the same things as storm troopers, or are more effective as basic units.


Targeters, the ability to pre-measure to all units within LOS of the Storm Troopers. For an army that relies on shooting- this is invaluable. ...

In city fight, targeters are fairly useless. If you've committed a squad to being able to draw LOS to an enemy, you need to be certain before you move them if they will be able to fire or not. And the narrow corridors will mean you'll rarely have more than one enemy as a target, so what does it matter if your storm troopers can check range before they fire?


It is quite possible to judge ranges for all your army based on what your Storm Troopers can reach.

But that would not be an all storm trooper army. That would be a standard guard army that is making use of a small number of storm troopers. Not an army depending entirely on them as the back bone for their force. If you want to compare a storm trooper army to all other armies, don't use examples from non storm trooper armies.

All I'm mainly saying is that storm troopers become about as effective in city fight as their vastly cheaper little brothers in the imperial guard.

russian
15-04-2006, 00:19
hell hounds are proberbly the most devestating tank in city fight followed closely by an immolator

russian
15-04-2006, 00:19
storm trooper armys are pointless might aswell spend more on plabs cus the effect is the same with all the terains and buidings

Strikerkc
15-04-2006, 00:32
... might aswell spend more on plabs cus the effect is the same with all the terains and buidings

what did you mean by "plabs"?

RdDragon5
15-04-2006, 00:45
wytch cult, as there is less shooting and their safer in combat most of the time there wont be much shotting in their direct at all

I'm going to have to agree with this one. While I don't play wytches, anything that can move 12", fleet of foot, then assault 6" into close combat where they accell is never a bad thing in my books. Not to forget that because these transports are skimmers you don't have to go around building, but just over them.

Emresh
15-04-2006, 00:49
Hmmm... Everyone seems to be forgetting the Orks. ;)

Cover saves to make up for light armor, T4, lots of terrain to keep them safe until they can get into close combat and good fighting ability once they do reach the enemy, Burnas :evilgrin: , lobbas, hordes of troops to swarm enclosed spaces and take the inevitable casualties without stopping, and of course the specialists like storm boyz and kommandos, plus plenty of grots to get them through the difficult terrain (unless this has changed since the last time I read thear codex...) Also, lest we forget thear Mob Up rules, this could easilly make for a situation in which broken ork boyz just end up reinforcing any hard points the orks might have in the surrounding terrain. Orks, seem to have and gain quite a few advantages in this type of battle.

Bregalad
15-04-2006, 01:29
Tau have a fair chance, too.

1.) Pathfinders and Fire Warriors have lots of cover and good fire power/marker light power. Marker light hits can decrease enemy cover saves.
2.) All suits can hop over difficult or unpassable terrain. Might even land on it (dangerous terrain save :( )
3.) All vehicles are anti-grav and ignore difficult or unpassable terrain, they can even hover over it and shot/deploy.
4.) They have smart missile systems and seeker missiles that don't need LOS.

Edit: And just think of a loong free main road with 9 broadsides at the end.

starlight
15-04-2006, 01:58
Ordered by my experience - your experience may be different.

1) Orks - templates, Mob-up, huge numbers of Assault weapons, Grotz, devastating if used well
2) Sisters of Battle - templates, significant short/medium range firepower
3) DEWC - mobility, CC masters
4) Tyranids - a well chosen bug army can be devastating

All are designed for (or simply very good at) short range firefights or close combat.

Worthy of note - Guard - if configured properly can be devastating, but *regular* IG forces generally do poorly.

Puffin Magician
15-04-2006, 02:18
Bregalad beat me to Tau, which I agree on many points [Jet Pack moves, Smart Missiles, Markerlights, Skimmers], but I guess the Wraithguard-heavy craftworld of Iyanden would do alright also.

Big ol' squads of T5/Sv3+/Ld10, toting 12" guns of death, led by Warlocks using Destructor [or Enhance]. The advantages of Death Guard combined with the mobility of Wave Serpents and absolute annihilative power of the Wraithcannon.

Chem-Dog
15-04-2006, 02:26
IG can rule a cityfight, their numbers can swing a fight.

Doctrines can make the army a tough nut to crack- Camelioline (which doesn't need to be capes) And Light Infantry can give you a distinct boost.

Oh and don't forget those two special weapons support squads loaded out with demmo charges :evilgrin:

kanluwen
15-04-2006, 03:16
IG with camoline cloaks for ultimate cityfight goodness. (wouldnt play against them unless cloaks were modelled otherwise its a bit cheesy)


This is kind of off-topic, I want to comment on the Cameoline doctrine:
It's not Cameoline cloaks. It's Cameoline material. It even says in the Codex, Carapace armor and Cameoline are perfectly legal combinations as it can be reasoned as heavy armor with stealth properties.

But, on topic I feel that IG can be incredibly devastating in cityfights. Deciding well-placed firebases inside of buildings and mobile firefights up and down the streets make them fairly mean.

Strikerkc
15-04-2006, 04:15
Edit: And just think of a loong free main road with 9 broadsides at the end.

Personaly I'd be more afraid of 9 sitting inside a closed off courtyard. 36 SMS shots is going to do quite a number on most infantry squads.:eek:

BuckFlashback
15-04-2006, 04:41
I think any army could be properly geared up for cityfight, but I'm gonna give my support to my favorite Chaos Legions: Alpha Legion and Night Lords. Especially Night Lords, with the cheap Stealth adept skill they're gonna have wonderful cover saves to protect them against low AP and against flamers they're still gonna have their power armor. Alpha Legion on the other hand are going to have plenty of cover to infiltrate into.

Donnie Darko
15-04-2006, 05:43
Posted in another thread, but i'll reiterate here.

Guard win hand's down for ability to win in a well tuned city fight force.
Camelion Cloaks, Light infantry, salt to taste. The entire army can infiltrate so the enemy starts pinned in their own zone.

Ally with GK or Sisters to make up for combat shortages, and the game is over. Last time I checked no one likes slogging though massed plasma fire, trying to kill 3+ cover save models, and having to assualt st 6 power weapons in cover :P

Sons of Russ
15-04-2006, 06:02
Surprised no one has yet mentioned the Alpha Legion.

They all get to Infiltrate for only +1 pt each, they have IG-equivalent cultists who can Infiltrate AND Move Through Cover, or Infiltrate and Furious Charge, or Infiltrate and (someone fill in the blank, please..:confused: )

Imagine two Infiltrating AND Tank-Hunting Havoc squads maxed out on autocannons deploying on your flank after almost all of your units have already been placed... And a DP with Daemonic Speed....

Should make for some fast and furious games.

starlight
15-04-2006, 06:10
<looks at huge piles of IG and SoB minis>

<thinks about CoD>

<:evilgrin:>

Adept
15-04-2006, 07:47
I'd have to go with Deathwing. The prevalence of LOS blocking terrain gives them the freedom to move while only facing a tiny portion of the enemies firepower, sytematically wiping out portions of the enemy.

starlight
15-04-2006, 07:51
Cityfight is just SpaceHulk in 3D:D. Deathwing would be cool.:evilgrin:

Damn - *another* reason to build the Firedrakes.:mad:

Adept
15-04-2006, 08:09
Cityfight is just SpaceHulk in 3D:D. Deathwing would be cool.:evilgrin:

Damn - *another* reason to build the Firedrakes.:mad:

Yeah, but you don't have all that bothersome study to occupy your time now...

Moonlight
15-04-2006, 08:16
I think that IG would be quite good in cityfight.In the new rules,you can actually destroy buildings,meaning that demolishers and basilisks become extra deadly...You can easily have 2 demolishers plus 2 platoons of light infantry in 1000 pts...Rough Riders would be great as well due to cover saves so our countercharge units gets better...Grab a pile of flamers and you are good to go.

ice
15-04-2006, 08:17
Deathguard!
Hey...Nurgles-rot...come on.

i agree, in city fight a nurgle LT. killed oof my hive Tyrant (it was my nurgle guy:rolleyes:) with his plague sword, and in another game my 6 plague marines killed off a firewarrior squad, and a kroot squad. so i vote for death guard.

starlight
15-04-2006, 08:24
The only thing standing between me and the Firedrakes* is a whackload of cash and a pile of unpainted minis:(.



*The Firedrakes are the Salamanders First Company. I've been planning to use with Deathwing rules to field a version in my successor chapter.:evilgrin:

That would make a knockoff of each of the Ravenwing and Deathwing, two Mech Battle Companies and two Scout Companies. Yeah, it's non-Codex:p sue me.:p

spongebob103
15-04-2006, 08:47
I would say deathwing... 2 ass cannons in each sqaud with a couple of dreads in support... They will have to use their cover wisely though... Also a d.p marine army??? We need a pole people!!!

Tanith Ghost
15-04-2006, 08:52
I'll readily agree to the merits of deathwing(or whichever chapter 1st company you happen to have). The abundant ocver make those 2+ save more durable than ever, and the medium range firepower is atrocious.
The tactic posted by Adept would serve them well, allowing them to wipe out the enemy peicemeal.

KnightofUltramar
15-04-2006, 09:02
eldar with warp spiders. I heard it from a guy at my local GW. the WS can teleport, shoot and then teleport back behind cover.

Master Jeridian
15-04-2006, 17:50
On the discussion of Storm Troopers- where in any of my posts did I insist on using Storm Troopers to the exclusion of all else.

Of course I intended for the Storm Troopers to be one or two units in an IG army, they're Elites after all. In this role they are excellent in Cityfight.

An all Storm Troopers army is for chumps- IG work with a mixture of tanks, cheap basic infantry and expensive elite infantry...and lots of guns.

Strikerkc
15-04-2006, 18:38
On the discussion of Storm Troopers- where in any of my posts did I insist on using Storm Troopers to the exclusion of all else.


Go back and read the posts, I was comenting on the statement that storm trooper armies would do well in city fight, and you came back and tried to corect my statements about all storm trooper armies. How else was I suposed to take that? ;)

GodofWarTx
15-04-2006, 19:09
Lysanderwing should operate alright, especially how i have mine configered. A siege dreadnaught (and maybe a twin, because i like him so much!) burninating anything he sees, scouts sniping or calling down terminators to engage the enemy on my terms. Oh, and a vindicator just to spice things up =D


Come to think of it, a trio of whirlwinds would prove devastating in cityfight, with the minefields potentially seeding off important roads. Nids could well be screwed in that situation if surrounded by tall buildings that count as vertically impassible and they dont have fleshhooks. Having to charge across 3 minefields = not good for the nids.

Master Jeridian
15-04-2006, 19:10
I misunderstanding on both our parts.

I was just responding to your post that Storm Troopers are rubbish in IG armies. I assumed you meant the unit not an army, I was wrong.

Sonofsigmar
15-04-2006, 20:58
I vote for LatD. Indirect defiliers/bassies, hellhounds, and Zombies all rule in city fight. Don't forget the gibbering hordes either they get a +1 to cover save. just keep them away from S6 Flamers. Infiltrating traitors or allied CSMs can provide covering fire as well as a demonic gateway. I would say LatD with nightlord or alpha legion support.

SoS

Scythe
15-04-2006, 22:04
Come to think of it, a trio of whirlwinds would prove devastating in cityfight, with the minefields potentially seeding off important roads. Nids could well be screwed in that situation if surrounded by tall buildings that count as vertically impassible and they dont have fleshhooks. Having to charge across 3 minefields = not good for the nids.

Buildings usually don't count as vertically impassible (cliffs usually do). Flesh Hooks are handy to get to higher levels of buildings faster.

However, the point that 3 whirlwinds are quite nasty in cityfight stands. Simular, a IG army with 3 Griffons with Inferno Shells from IA3 would be downright evil in cityfight; back them up with some mortars, and the enemy is very lucky if he can even reach your line squads.

Kjell
15-04-2006, 22:13
So, when reading all of these replies... Is there actually an army that does not do well in cityfight? :p

No one has mentioned the Necrons or non-Alpha Legion/Night Lords CSM yet, though. Maybe they benefit in the least obvious ways?

Brother Valnrys
15-04-2006, 22:58
Anything that is good at close combat and can assault quickly should work, tyranids, the right eldar army, anything like that is gonna make a mockery of any shooty army like space marines with the right tactics.....*sigh* I'll still try to force my black templar into an all or nothing close range combat/fire fight with lots of causalities, it's just not warhammer 40k for me if you haven't already packed away 3/5 of your army by the middle of the game.

Da Reddaneks
16-04-2006, 00:06
well, this is an interesting question actually. And since i look at all things from an ork point of view, i would have to answer it as "what is the best ork unit for city fight?" Well, acutally off the top of my head i am thinking it would be, once again, scarboyz. They can have frag grenades for charging, will only cost two points more than a stupid stickbomma (the second most useless ork unit in the game BTW) and are much more effective in combat.

eldarlordx2
16-04-2006, 00:47
what about tau heavy on suits the ability to jump forward shoot then jump backwards far enough to avoid a next turn assault gotta be good in cityfight stealthsuits would also work well in cityfight with those cover saves

Strikerkc
16-04-2006, 03:58
what about tau heavy on suits the ability to jump forward shoot then jump backwards far enough to avoid a next turn assault gotta be good in cityfight stealthsuits would also work well in cityfight with those cover saves

Your going to be roling a lot of dice to see if the suits are outright killed by the terain. Just think, if you have 12 things with jump packs, the averages dictate that you'll lose 3-4 of them on your first turn to the "landing in difficult terrain" rule. Not a good way to start your game.

I see tau with devil fishes working well, but suits will have limited use.

GodofWarTx
16-04-2006, 04:29
Buildings usually don't count as vertically impassible (cliffs usually do). Flesh Hooks are handy to get to higher levels of buildings faster.

However, the point that 3 whirlwinds are quite nasty in cityfight stands. Simular, a IG army with 3 Griffons with Inferno Shells from IA3 would be downright evil in cityfight; back them up with some mortars, and the enemy is very lucky if he can even reach your line squads.


for the most part, you are right, but believe it or not, GW themselves in battle reports have used vertically impassible buildings with some of their biiiiig buildings they have with no obvious doors or anything. I think in the IG vs. Nid battle report involving the deathwatch when the new nids came out they had buildings like that.

Agreed on that with the IG. Three griffons PLUS a command squads mortar segment would be nuts.

About armies that WOULDNT do well: armoured companies configured for normal play. Talk about problems. I also bet transport-heavy armies might have trouble negotiating the buildings and limited streets. I dont have a lot of faith in my own gunline Tau performing well in cityfight, no matter how many SMS i try to cram in.

hardcastle
16-04-2006, 04:31
hell hounds are proberbly the most devestating tank in city fight followed closely by an immolator

have you even played city fight?

Hellhound ususally will hit 8-10 models when normall shot, and even when it doesnt roll a "hit" u still roll for each guy.

In City fight you roll a 4+ to hit and if u miss you get nothing. and if you do roll a HIT you hit d6 guys... WOW!!! so devastating...........


My vote goes for Orks and Nids for best army. Anything that brings you closer to these armies cant be good.

1) Nids
2) Orks
3) Eldar

starlight
16-04-2006, 04:36
I assumed that they were playing that the newer HH rules overrode the older Cityfight rules or that they may have been playing in a Urban environment without using the actual Cityfight rules. We'll have to wait to see how the new CoD rules deal with this.:)

spongebob103
16-04-2006, 05:36
I am going to do something similar to librarium onlines Vote war for city fight. I will post guidelines, look for a new thread. Any input would be appreciated...

Scythe
16-04-2006, 10:01
So, when reading all of these replies... Is there actually an army that does not do well in cityfight? :p

No one has mentioned the Necrons or non-Alpha Legion/Night Lords CSM yet, though. Maybe they benefit in the least obvious ways?

The interesting thing about cityfight is that it favours a lot units normally not so effective or often taken, and most army at least have 1 unit type of this. Even Necrons have these units (Flayed Ones, Scarabs, Wraiths all preform better under cityfight for example). Still, I think the armies with the most problems would be anything mechanised or tank heavy (for obvious reasons), Necrons (cover all over the place for the enemy, slow advance, ineffective destroyers), Tau / IG (normally rely on long ranged shooting). Tough of course you could also make a point that power armoured troops benefit way less from cover as other races do.

In the end, there are not many losers in cityfight. However looking at the armies with the least disadvantages, I would say the winners would be Tyranids and Orks (not that much ranged firepower, great benefits from cover, great in close combat).