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scubasteve04
10-10-2011, 18:01
Have a game with against Orcs and Goblins coming up. I am relatively new to the game, and my opponent is pretty experienced. I have also yet to face Orcs and Goblins yet (I have only ever really fought DE, WoC and Dwarves) so I am a little worried. What sort of tactics should Empire use against a competitive Orcs and Goblins army?

Here is my list too:


2500pts
Arch Lector, GW, AoMI, VHS, Holy Relic
Captain, BSB, Full Plate, Enchanted Shield, Dawnstone, Biting Blade
Warrior Priest, Heavy Armor, Shield
Warrior Priest, Heavy Armor, Shield
49 Halberdiers, Full Command
49 Halberdiers, Full Command
38 Greatswords, Full Command
10 Knights, Full Command, Flaming Banner
10 Pistoliers, Musi, Outrider with Repeater Pistol
Mortar
Mortar
Mortar
Cannon
Cannon
Cannon

Oogie boogie boss
10-10-2011, 18:19
It all depends what sort of army he goes for. Very generally (and i'm speaking as an OnG player), i'd advise letting him come to you, using your artillery to whittle down his infantry blocks, try and tar-pit what gets to your lines with your Halbadiers, then counter attack with your Greatswords and Knights. I'd try to use your Pistoliers to either attack his war machines (if he takes any) or to draw his hard hitting units (such as Boar Boys, Trolls, etc) out of position. Or even to draw out his fanatics.
I'd put the Warrior Priests in the Halberdiers for some combat kills, as well as the BSB.
The key thing to remember is to prioritise and concentrate your fire.
Pick the biigest threat/key unit in his army and shoot it till it's dead, fleeing or combat ineffective. Things to focus on will be Black Orcs, Trolls, Savage Orcs, Wyvern mounted general, Giant, Mangler Squigs and Chariots. You should get at least 2, probably three turns of shooting, so make sure to really focus that fire power.
Another thing to bear in mind is that big units of NG, Orc boys and Common Gobbos will stay around for ages unless you take away their ranks, so remember to position your Knights carefully to get a flank charge. If everything goes to plan, you should be able to roll up his line once you've pinned him with your block units.
Good luck (but not too much, cos green iz da best). :p

Oogie boogie boss
10-10-2011, 18:21
Oooh, also, i'd consider ditching a Warrior priest for a Mage with Lore of Fire, to take out, or at least weaken, any Trolls, or to just get some more ranged kills.

Von Wibble
10-10-2011, 18:23
From a list perspective I'm surprised you have no detachments - they are great at disrupting ranks, providing fire support, and providing redirectors to ensure any really horrible units face you on your terms not his. Also I think 3 great cannons is too many - 2 is about right imo, and the pistoliers are better as 2 units rather than 1.

Generally, stay back and let him come to you. Try to take out his general and/or BSB as quickly as you can (focus all attascks you can in combat at them) because once they are gone he is fairly likely to break even with steadfast. But bear in mind he will look to do the same to you, and your characters may have decent armour, but they aren't that tough.

Specific things to watch out for

Fanatics - a unit of huntsmen is the simplest counter but a 5 man free company detachment is a good cheap alternative.

Their war machines - use your cannons to take these out as first priority.

Trolls -flaming banner is a good idea (but that knight unit needs to be a little bigger so it can take a casualty or 2 and still disrupt ranks later on).

Mangler squigs - shoot before they get anywhere near your lines! Handgunners/crossbows are your best bet but you don't have any sadly...

Other than that just treat them like any other army - and most importantly enjoy the game!

Von Wibble
10-10-2011, 18:24
Oooh, also, i'd consider ditching a Warrior priest for a Mage with Lore of Fire, to take out, or at least weaken, any Trolls, or to just get some more ranged kills.

Plus give him the rod of power to really put the kibosh on his magic.

scubasteve04
10-10-2011, 18:33
I should have been more specific about the list. I am not going to explain why I have the units that I have, and I know that it is not 100% optimized the way it could be, but the list works for me as an all-comers list and is fun to play as well. The list is there for perspective on tactics alone. As far as everyone is concerned, the list is set in stone.

metalloveman
10-10-2011, 23:33
Well since greenskins have so much variety your going to have to be more specific. I will say that if you fight grimgor shoot every cannon and mortar shot at him that you can, because once in combat he will destroy any of your units. also use your pistoliers to hunt his warmachines(you want ranged superiority) and harass/shoot and boar boys or black orcs he has and if push comes to shove don't be afraid to cannon his rock lobbas or doom divers.

List looks pretty solid. do split the pistols up though

Malorian
11-10-2011, 16:53
For those that want to know, the game went like this:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320457


Even though I shouldn't be telling you this, here are some tips:

1. Don't aim mortars at night goblins. They may be big and tempting but you really aren't hurting the army. Better to concentrate on the offensive units.

2. Kill the BSB and general at all costs. Once the general dies the army generally falls apart. Suicide missions aren't suicide if they make you win the game.

3. Don't hold your units back. If you stay back then I can march right up to you, but if you move up then you can flee and regroup and meanwhile I've moves 4 inches rather than 8. You can get another turn of shooting this way.

4. Bog down what you don't want to deal with. Remember that you don't need to beat all of my army, you only need to score more points then me. Bogging down your opponent's key units is a great way to get an edge. For example mortars can be used to move up and block a unit and waste a turn, and so can cheap heros. It might seem like a waste but it will save you in the long run.

5. Know when to go defensive. Putting greatswords in horde formation means they kill faster but they also die faster. If their goal is to not be wiped out then get them into ranks early. You need to decide right from deployment if you think you can win or if you are going to hold out.

castlesmadeofsand
11-10-2011, 17:20
having read that you were new to the game and were taking 6 pieces of artillery and spamming lector/wps, when i got to the bottom of this thread and saw that you played malorian i laughed so hard! sorry.

SilasOfTheLambs
11-10-2011, 18:30
Take a war altar. Give him the ws10 sword and the speculum (and, if there's room the glittering scales). Now he will never die, and you can stick him 8 inches deep in the most powerful enemy combat unit and it will sit there forever. This gives your frail, wimpy state troops a large advantage over the rest of the army.

You have too many war machines. Keep 2 mortars. Put the rest of the points into greatswords. Right now I'm running 2 27-packs and it's working quite well.

10 Pistoliers in one unit is silly... given their six inch effective range, the back row will hardly ever be able to hit anything. I'd split them in two, or better yet, ditch them completely and take outriders instead. Outriders shoot better (helpful against orcs, whose armor is routinely awful) and move just as fast, and the fact that they can't do both in the same turn really isn't much of a problem most of the time.

Best of luck.

Edit: Also it's important to take small disposable units so that they can stand on fanatics or mangla squigs. Pop goes the squigzel.

Malorian
11-10-2011, 18:40
Take a war altar. Give him the ws10 sword and the speculum (and, if there's room the glittering scales). Now he will never die, and you can stick him 8 inches deep in the most powerful enemy combat unit and it will sit there forever. This gives your frail, wimpy state troops a large advantage over the rest of the army.

I was actually hoping he would take a war alter.

Greenskin elite units have enough high strength attacks that you simply refuse the challenge (if issued) and then direct all attacks at the war alter. The now ex-unbreakable AL then runs away.

Only the steam tank has a chance to hold up an elite greenskin unit. (Man I miss the Waaaghcleaver :()

SilasOfTheLambs
11-10-2011, 21:21
I was actually hoping he would take a war alter.

Greenskin elite units have enough high strength attacks that you simply refuse the challenge (if issued) and then direct all attacks at the war alter. The now ex-unbreakable AL then runs away.

Only the steam tank has a chance to hold up an elite greenskin unit. (Man I miss the Waaaghcleaver :()

I've had this problem, and I eventually solved it with the can't-touch-this combo noted above. You're swinging at ws10, so hitting on 5's, or 6's if you chose to target the guy on top. The altar also comes with a -1 to hit spell in a pinch. It's nearly impossible to kill it in two combat rounds unless it fails a lot of ward saves, and then after two combat rounds I have several shots at healing it all the way back up.

Admittedly this is primarily an anti-WoC combo, but it's had good success against ogres, greenskins, and dwarfs (although high WS on dwarfs made it a little hairy in that case). Of course it's not perfect, but it's a higher-percentage chance of success than going head-to-head against those damn frenzied savage big'uns of yours -.-

Malorian
12-10-2011, 00:30
Note that the AL and the WA can be attacked seperately.