PDA

View Full Version : Redshirt steered me away from DE, revamp?



Gadicitus
03-06-2005, 09:51
Went to GW a few days ago to start a new army and decided on either Dark Eldar or Guard - I was chatting to one of the staff and they were adamant that the entire Eldar and Dark Eldar line was being revamped into a single codex. Obviously I've never heard of this and in the end decided on Guard anyway.

I'm wondering if there was any truth in what this guy was saying?

Tiberius Frost
03-06-2005, 10:00
This has been a rumour for some time now. I've never heard it officially confirmed, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happened. The list is also supposed to include rules for using Harlequins in all types of Eldar armies, and also rules for exodites, though I wouldn't hold your breath on the last ones.

DE aren't really a very good army choice atm, since they don't really have any models anymore. I believe GW stopped selling them.

TomKamakazi
03-06-2005, 10:06
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the development team at some games day say that they were shying away from combined mega-dexs like the Chaos one?

If that is true then your Red Shirt is full of it, or just speculating.

Sgt John Keel
03-06-2005, 10:27
This has been a rumour for some time now. I've never heard it officially confirmed, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happened.[...]

No. Because it has been officially denied.

/Adrian

Lord Balor
03-06-2005, 10:27
From what i've heard from unofficial sources (So just speculation) is that all eldar will be incorperated into a single codex. It will be akin to the trait system of the Space marines, a straight line where you pick your eldar and can borrow from the lists to the left and right of it.
So my guess is that it will look like:

Dark Eldar-Pirates-Eldar-Craftsworld-Harliquin

So if your main is Eldar, you can borrow from the crafsworld and Pirate lists. It seems highly unlikely and doubtful, but it seemed like a great idea when i first heard it.

sigur
03-06-2005, 10:43
Aren't redshirts the people who rarely have as much or more clue of release lines as we do?

Pertinax
03-06-2005, 10:53
Dark Eldar as a range have been moved from shop supported to Direct Order supported. A few of the main things will remain in shops. Everything else will go to Direct Sales only. This move happened about 6 months ago.

The redshirt was probably thinking that. Its an availability/sales thing.

geoffkemp
03-06-2005, 11:09
I`ve heardthat the Eldar codex(s) are being or will be developed in tandem to give them a more cohesive feel. I think some people have interpeted this as "one codex".

Gadicitus
03-06-2005, 11:55
Ah. I getcha. So lots of rumours but little more than castles in the sky at the moment? I guess we won't know for a while, regardless (given the 'nid and BT releases over the next 6-9 months)

Darkzeer
03-06-2005, 12:06
I think the redshirt was really doing you a favour and trying to persuade you to play a better army

t-tauri
03-06-2005, 12:29
I think the redshirt was really doing you a favour and trying to persuade you to play a better army
Decent army. Horrible minis.

It's likely the redshirt was doing it from a taste/aesthetics and availability point. There's no point saddling yourself with a horrible army you can only get mail order when new and better figures will come out, even if it's two-three years down the line.

Sai-Lauren
03-06-2005, 12:31
Aren't redshirts the people who rarely have as much or more clue of release lines as we do?
They usually have less.

Right, dark eldar. It is believed that the entire eldar race is being fleshed out in one go - Craftworld, Dark, Exodites and Harlequins (possibly also Crone World, but there's no definite information either way).

Dark Eldar models are currently missing in action from stores, and have been gone for about 18 months IIRC. It's been a long running topic of conversation as to whether they'll come back as is, get a revamp, or whether Cormorragh will be eaten by the Tyrannids. :eyebrows:

However, when it comes to the codices, I believe the plans are that there will be one for Craftworld eldar (presumably with craftworld variant lists to replace the Craftworld eldar mini-dex) and one for Dark Eldar (if they come back) - there will not be one big Eldar codex. Whether the others get a codex to themselves is unknown.


I think the redshirt was really doing you a favour and trying to persuade you to play a better army
Well, dark eldar are tough to get right, but utterly lethal once you've worked out how to use them properly.

Delicious Soy
03-06-2005, 12:52
From what I heard (from here a while ago) apparently Exodites and Harliequins are seriously up in the air. It seems the Development team are having 'trouble' finding a place for them. What this means I have no idea but I have a clue to help them: Codex Daemonhunters. Look at that then write the Harlie codex. All exodites need is an option in the CE codex for dragon knights, and the Autarch, then you can make an exodite list.

x-esiv-4c
03-06-2005, 13:08
Aren't redshirts the people who rarely have as much or more clue of release lines as we do?

Most of the time they know less....

Gadicitus
03-06-2005, 13:08
I know how hideous the miniatures are - surprisingly there was infact the full range of plastics (although no metal) miniatures in my store. Admittedly it was one box of each behind the counter, but was there nonetheless.

If I _had_ chosen them, I would have probably been swamped with conversions anyhow. Swapping the Reaver Jetbikes cowl for the Harlequin one, using a variety of Dark Elf and Eldar miniatures with suitable colorschemes and conversions. It seemed like a great idea and one which would be fairly rare - but I decided that the guard were going to be more fun in the short term.

BaronDG
03-06-2005, 13:34
With some luck the eldar codices will be as related as the imperial ones, giving you a decent variety of mix'n match choices while still retaining their own flavours...

alterion
03-06-2005, 13:36
i would not believe anything a redshirt says.. ever..

Mojaco
03-06-2005, 15:45
Aren't redshirts the people who rarely have as much or more clue of release lines as we do?
Being a redshirt, I take offence in that!

New Codex: Demiurg, 2009. There, you broke me, happy now?

self biased
03-06-2005, 15:57
own goal. you really should try harder next time.

Mahu
03-06-2005, 15:58
Pete Haines at Gamesday Atlanta said that the Eldar and the Dark Eldar will not be in the same codex.

He mentioned that they will probably do Dark Eldar like they are doing Wood Elves, get to them last but totally revamp the whole minature range.

Punker
03-06-2005, 16:13
Sometimes I think this should be changed from the "Rumours" forum to the "Speculate wildly and try and sound like you know something others don't" forum, lol.

What's wrong with the DE minis anyway? I've got over 5,000 points of them and I still like them. They've taken a back seat to my marines and Witch Hunters as they're newer armies but I played them on the weekend and they still look pretty good (If only I'd been as good a painter then as I am now though).

Sure the newer models of any race look better as GW refines its casting and moulding techniques, but the general look is pretty cool I think. The most broken part of them IMHO is the fluff I think.

I guess that the problem with opinions, there's always a contradictory one.

Mahu
03-06-2005, 16:31
I like the majority of Dark Eldar Minatures as well, the problem with me though is that I compare them to much with the gorgous Dark Elf minatures.

Imbroglio
03-06-2005, 16:35
*sigh*

Two things have been confirmed by the development team to the best of my knowledge. 1st, 'Eldar' as a concept is going to be worked on as one big concept. This is to ensure continuity, and too link things up. Exactly the same thing happened with SM, hence the reason they can drop in a chapter codex whenever they feel like it more or less.

2nd, and most importantly, Dark Eldar are not being dropped as an army, they are not being dropped as a race, they are not being dropped as a range of models. Why would they have put them in the 4th Edition rule book!

This comes up regularly, take it with a pinch of salt, and I'd quite happily see this locked and sunk to be never mentioned again...

Regards,

-- Imbroglio

Darkzeer
03-06-2005, 16:57
(I used to play DE when they first came out)

The DE need new minis and a whole new army list.
The list lacks flexibility in making it effective. You either see whole wych armies or whole warrior armies, all on raiders. Anything else is just gonna die.

The raider model needs a serious revamp so that the damned thing doesn't break and can be safely transported.

t-tauri
03-06-2005, 20:30
2nd, and most importantly, Dark Eldar are not being dropped as an army, they are not being dropped as a race, they are not being dropped as a range of models. Why would they have put them in the 4th Edition rule book!

Why did they put Squats in the second edition rulebook?
Plans change. It'll all come down to sales figures. If Eldar (and any sub-lists) sell well then DE will appear. If they don't the struggle with the accountants will be on.

Imbroglio
04-06-2005, 00:01
Why did they put Squats in the second edition rulebook?
Plans change. It'll all come down to sales figures. If Eldar (and any sub-lists) sell well then DE will appear. If they don't the struggle with the accountants will be on.

GW is a very different company now than when they released 2nd edition 40K. Now it's all about marketing, which means when you release the major priduct of your 3-5 year period - ie a new edition of a game - you make damn sure things like an army it includes happens.

And again, the studio have said that the Dark Eldar are staying in the game.

Regards,

-- Imbroglio

neXus6
04-06-2005, 05:30
I'm another who agrees that the army list is great it just suffers from a very poor model range.
They were a new race and needed to be marketed like the Ogre Kingdoms (as much as I hate them) were rather than just ramming them into the Main Box and hoping they would get a fan base.

As tempting as it is to convert up a Dark Eldar army with Eldar Dark Eldar and Dark Elf bits it would be very time consuming.

The Raider model is leathal as a result I have a small place in my heart for it...and I had a scar on my arm for 6 months. :p

LostTemplar
04-06-2005, 05:55
I am doing it. They do look fairly well.

Master Fulgrim
05-06-2005, 01:28
Well, i dont believe, that there will be one Codex for all. I remember the rumours when Codex: Spacemarines came out. There was also the rumour, that all minidexes would be included. And now? Many SM-players are now waiting for there new Codizes. And while they are waiting, many of them started a new army, wich seems quite good for GW. So they will develope both minis together, but they will touch them in two different Codizes. At this way they have time enough to revamp also their range of minis and they dont lose sales to their own minis. My 0,02$.

Master Fulgrim

Sir_Turalyon
05-06-2005, 09:19
The one codex for all eldar races rumour has been denied already. As we won't see new dex for them any soon, we can assume DE will be playable under old dex for years to come.

As for DE being withdrawn from the shops... it seems to only apply to GW shops; indie shop near me has no problem ordering them, which quite surprised me.

Wintermute
05-06-2005, 10:42
As for DE being withdrawn from the shops... it seems to only apply to GW shops; indie shop near me has no problem ordering them, which quite surprised me.

Some of the DE range has been withdrawn and become mail order only. One of the most recent items to be withdrawn was the DE Wyches. Stores, whether they are GW or indie, can no longer order them.

Gadicitus
05-06-2005, 16:16
Some of the DE range has been withdrawn and become mail order only. One of the most recent items to be withdrawn was the DE Wyches. Stores, whether they are GW or indie, can no longer order them.

And hail mary to that! They are so bloody hideous. Those and the Warp Beasts could've come from the bad-side of the RT-era. Eurgh!
:p

Creamy Goodness
05-06-2005, 17:49
I'm betting that DE will be released mid 4th edition. They'll prolly get to be the adversary for imperial guard or somethingorother.

If done right, not in some 80's hair metal band aesthetic, DE could be really quite keeewl.

Xander-K
05-06-2005, 18:07
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of the development team at some games day say that they were shying away from combined mega-dexs like the Chaos one?

If that is true then your Red Shirt is full of it, or just speculating.
if you have seen the eldar lists, even combined they wouldn't be a mega-dex such as the chaos one.

susu.exp
05-06-2005, 18:14
I'm betting that DE will be released mid 4th edition. They'll prolly get to be the adversary for imperial guard or somethingorother.

If done right, not in some 80's hair metal band aesthetic, DE could be really quite keeewl.

As cool as Squats could´ve been if they hadn´t been done in that Mötorhead biker aesthetic? And what aestetic should they have? My vote goes to Greatful Dead ca. 72 or alternatively mid-90s Skatekids.

Witch Hunter
05-06-2005, 20:41
Pete Haines at Gamesday Atlanta said that the Eldar and the Dark Eldar will not be in the same codex.

He mentioned that they will probably do Dark Eldar like they are doing Wood Elves, get to them last but totally revamp the whole minature range.


Pete Haines wasn't at GD Atlanta IIRC. It was Phil Kelly that you are referring to I believe, but the comment is essentially correct, and he went on to add that neither the Exodites or Harlequins were likely to make the Eldar list at this time, but ALL Eldar were being "Conceptualized" at the same time as already mentioned. After a direct question on the fate of the Harlequins, Phil said he loved the Harlequins, planned a CA article for them in the not-so-distant future, followed by a codex in the far, far distant future.

The Beast
06-06-2005, 14:14
I'm betting that DE will be released mid 4th edition. They'll prolly get to be the adversary for imperial guard or somethingorother.


Hmmm... I wonder who they will be the adversaries to. CSM are adversaries to SM. Well thencould Dark Eldar be adversaries to Eldar? Nah it's too simple. They're probably the zoats major adversary and hunted them to extinction. :evilgrin:

Mahu
06-06-2005, 16:30
Pete Haines wasn't at GD Atlanta IIRC. It was Phil Kelly that you are referring to I believe, but the comment is essentially correct, and he went on to add that neither the Exodites or Harlequins were likely to make the Eldar list at this time, but ALL Eldar were being "Conceptualized" at the same time as already mentioned. After a direct question on the fate of the Harlequins, Phil said he loved the Harlequins, planned a CA article for them in the not-so-distant future, followed by a codex in the far, far distant future.


Yeah it was Phil Kelly, I always mixed his name up at Atlanta. And I remember everything you said.

LO Roxxors
07-06-2005, 03:29
I think the bottom line is, that DE are gonna submerge for a couple of years. Yeah, a great army and concept, but shoddy minis. I doubt they will emerge until at least several months after the Eldar do themselves, but hopefully with some really decent minis for once. Its tempting to think that they might do them as somewhat more 'adult' minis (e.g. daemonettes) just to ring the changes.

Calgar
07-06-2005, 12:17
Yesterday when i walked into my local GW and started to flipp through the DE codex a "blackshirt" came up to me and banged his hand on a DE warrior box and said " Dont bother whit them , their are getting updated"!
So it seems that they are actually gettina a "face lift".

cubbster
07-06-2005, 18:27
The DE are adversaries to every race in 40k (well maybe not necrons and 'nids), as all they do is raid habited planets for slaves. I would like to see the De mounting slave raid on the Tau worlds, that would be a cool scenario!

On another note I can't wait for the harlequin official list to be released. The army is one of my favourites fluff wise, and so interesting in its playing style.

Creamy Goodness
07-06-2005, 20:32
Tau would actually be a good adversary. CC versus shooty.

Darkness
07-06-2005, 20:44
Yesterday when i walked into my local GW and started to flipp through the DE codex a "blackshirt" came up to me and banged his hand on a DE warrior box and said " Dont bother whit them , their are getting updated"!
So it seems that they are actually gettina a "face lift".

It's been known for a while that DE will be redone. However, when it is hasn't been stated yet. What we do know is that Eldar and Dark Eldar will be tackled at the same time, but in individual codices, as has been stressed at all the Games Day Seminars.

In the UK (And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, everywhere but America), the DE minis are still available in-store, so they are around for a while yet, and I can't see them being removed from stores like has been done in the US.

I think I have a hazy date of something like late 2007 for DE/Eldar - just remembered it during this post, one of the GW Head Office guys who I am friends with (Ok, he's a close friend of Head Office and used to work there - but if I say "A manager", no-one will believe it and immediately disregard everything I've written :D) gave me a "hint". This date may be complete rubbish, but I'm sure I was told by him that it would be "around that time", as we worked it out based on how often the new codices are released, and the order in which the latest ones are being released.

TitusAndronicus
08-06-2005, 01:08
I'm betting that DE will be released mid 4th edition. They'll prolly get to be the adversary for imperial guard or somethingorother.

If done right, not in some 80's hair metal band aesthetic, DE could be really quite keeewl.

I'd love to see them redone to a more HR Giegerish, "man in the machine" look, with lots of trailing cables and tubes and wires. Not borg, but drug addicted nutbags who depend on a more biological technology.

And no, they won't combine Eldar and Dark Eldar. It wouldn't make good marketing sense at the very least.

neXus6
08-06-2005, 01:29
I dunno, I mean yeah a lot of the basic troops are rubbish. The best bet would be to work from a lot of the art work in the codex cause that book has some of the best art out of any 40k products.

The very spawn esq picture of the Haemonculus leaning back pointing with his cloak flowing out in the same direction is my favourite piece of 40k art work.

LostTemplar
08-06-2005, 13:07
Its an Archon, I think.

I think, that GW should get rid of the funky helmets. You'd be amazed on how good a Dark Elf Head or a Eldar Guardian helmet look on a simple Dark Eldar Armour. (I know, I've been doing it)

Edit Note: Spelling.

glimli
08-06-2005, 17:02
that is one of the rumours, i hop its not true. the two eldar cultures are very distinct and they dont get on at well, hainvg whyches and banshees in the same army is worng.

however despite their possibly dodgy rumour i would still folow their advice. the de army is very badly supported at the moment and not availabel in ge stores any more. with codex creep they will get left further and further behind untill they are updated. id go with gaurd, theyve got some great minis the list is fairly powerfull and current. also barring some major finanncial disastor for gw they wont be getting canned anytime soon.


gw staff are always a source of odd rumours, sometime they know something and other times their just repeating stuff theyve seen on the net, probably something one portent!