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View Full Version : Thinking about a 2nd army. Help please.



Dirty Mac
16-10-2011, 14:41
Well i am looking to get a 2nd army, I play Dark Elves and i am happy with them they will always be my main army, but for a 2nd choice I am not sure which army to pick. I have already picked the armies i have no real interest in.

So the choices are

Dwarfs, not too sure if i want them, i already do a lot of shooting with DE, and if i wanted Arty, Empire might be better.

Empire they are still only humans with T3 and I am not sure how well they would perform in CC.

Skaven, I am not really interested in horde armies 100+ models in a 1000pt game sees a little over the top.

Lizards , i am looking at these guys and i borrowed some from my mate and i did some play testing with them, but I am not sure yet.
They seem lacking in choices at smaller point games.

Warriors of Chaos: I read the WoC are Boring thread, and although the models look great, it seems like it would be the same game again and again.

Please give me some advice, on the armies I am looking at I am sure that there are things i have missed. If empire can do well in Combat then maybe they would be a good 2nd choice. Thanks in advance.

Lantern
16-10-2011, 16:29
My first army was Bretonnians, and after them, I choose Dwarfs, thinking to myself that a static infantry and ranged army was about as far as I could get from the mobile combat based army I already had. In your case, you might want to look at how you play the Dark Elves (you've already stated you have a lot of shooting).
Looking at what you 'arn't doing', I would suggest either Bretonnians, Ogres or Wood Elves as each plays in a style you are unaccustomed too.
From your own list, I think Empire might suit you best, having enough of everything, that you could take a balanced army before diversifying to a theme. In combat, Empire infantry are tough to shift, with wide access to stubborn, steadfast and unbreakable troops. For punch, their knights are solid, with a 1+ save in most cases and able to be fielded with Grand Masters for psychological immunity.
Ranged, you have cannons, mortars, wizards, hand gunners, steam tanks, engineers etc. Lots of variety should help avoid boredom.

Algovil
16-10-2011, 17:49
I would go for the opposite army:

+Tough units.
Either very cheap of very expensive units.
+Low WS.
+Warmachines
-Crossbows,bows
+Guns
-Monsters
+Monsterous infantery
+Knights
-Magic
etc

Break it down into pieces, but keep an overview of the armies, go with the gut.

I find that OnG would fit the bill, but they always does, as well as Empire.

Regarding your options:

Dwarfs: if you are unsure, ditch them, though I play empire and sometimes find me wanting some dwarfs, even though they are quite the same.

Empire: can not go wrong with these guys, keep in mind that the army will probably consist of lots of t3 units, with low-avarage fighting capability, you rally can not make the elite. Still they do well in combat, Horde up on flagellants, Greatswords and Halberdiers is the common thing to do, you will lose units, but still do damage. You will need warmachines, and/or magic, unbreakable troops for support. Great fun!

Skaven: I can not stand painting that many models, otherwise they seem really fun to play, but I have hard time getting any attachment to the army as a whole, still, probably a good option, if you like something completely different, keeping that OP monster... :P

Lizards: IMO, it would be great fun building a strong list with this army, but there is not much room to expand, and I believe they will get dull, you rely on magic, might be nice. Without the Slann they are not the same, but you can sure make a smaller army.

WoC: Would IMO be great building and painting a list, since I like the models (save marauders) and they are utterly brutal. Still, there is not much room to expand. Honestly, as long as you do not abuse the book, chosenstar etc, WoC could be a good choice, try something else, leave the hordes at home and go MSU style? I always wanted to try a list with lots of Elites and characters, no hellcannon, with Wulfrik in a unit of ambushing marauders, and a few units of Warriors. I would go for a theme, maybe nurgle, while not as competative it would look great!

I say, for a second army, what do you want? I think it is a chance for making a theme list, which plays different, go with a theme you like and go all the way with it, OR, go with an army which can be expanded, like Empire or OnG!

Hiddenhaddock
16-10-2011, 17:52
Ogres. Cheap to get an army up and running (seriously! Couple of Batallions, couple of characters and you're done) and they play very differently to Dark Elves. Lots of middling WS, decent S attacks, and a shockingly resilient army.

BRETELF
16-10-2011, 20:34
If your worried about one demential army's don't choose dwarfs, all they do or do well is shoot war machines. People will dislike you after you buy a dwarfs army :)

BRETELF
16-10-2011, 20:35
Ogres. Cheap to get an army up and running (seriously! Couple of Batallions, couple of characters and you're done) and they play very differently to Dark Elves. Lots of middling WS, decent S attacks, and a shockingly resilient army.

Ogres look like a good idea, very different from dark elves and they just got a cool update, I here no cheese complaints from ogres!

Sh4d0w
16-10-2011, 21:57
Take advice from a dark elf player who just turned back for his second shot at dwarves. They are insanely more different than dark elves. Don't listen to BRETELF he has no idea what he's talking about, as long as you don't go a gunline but have a mixture of shooting and combat, dwarves can actually be really fun, they are also a little more of a challenge than dark elves.

@BRETELF judging by your name i can tell that you play bretonnians. You do realise that Bretonnians are almost the most one dimensional army out? You literally pray to lady first turn then march up ready for the charge. Yet you claim to be more versatile than dwarves. hahahaha

dwarfhold13
16-10-2011, 22:56
Since Dwarfs are coming out with a new book sometime soon.. hopefully! You may want to wait on em, even though I don't think they will change too much.
I own: Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Empire, Lizardmen, Night Goblins, and now Savage Orks.
There are ways you can write lists to sort of play the same from army to army, but every army is pretty different still. My only gripe with Lizardmen now is that the list seems to write itself, and you see very similar armies at tournaments. Slann, Temple Guard, Skink cohort hordes with Kroxigor, and ancient stegs for thunderstomp.
Empire can be fun still, and also can be written to be pretty cheesy with artillery spam.
I recently used dwarfs at my last major tourney and I can honestly say, it's the most fun I've had playing in a while. They are very easy to use because you don't have to keep up with a magic phase, and just lay down the smack. I didn't really go with a shooty list as most of it can be kinda faulty, but here is how I went, model wise:
Rune Lord with anvil
Thane
Thane BSB
40 GW warriors
10 Thunderers
10 Thunderers
35 Hammerers
20 Miners
Grudge Thrower
Cannon
Organ Gun

I'm always deciding on what to use because I like a model or not, so I may not be the best person to ask, but I did want to give my experience.

Dirty Mac
16-10-2011, 23:17
Hey guys Thanks for all the information. I think i will take a closer look at The Empire.
Ogres look good, but we have 2 guys in our circle that have started them, and the guy play every Sunday has High Elves and has started to collect Orcs. One guy i met has basically all of them, so he might lend me his empire if i ask nicely.

Thanks for all the help.

oldWitheredCorpse
17-10-2011, 08:30
Hey, Tomb Kings are pretty cool as well! They're a challenge to play, though.

Oogie boogie boss
17-10-2011, 11:09
I reckon OnG would be a good option. They've got some tough, hard-hitting units, a good mix of magic, combat and shooting, very different style, both models and gaming-wise from DE and most importantly, they have a huge variance in units.

Dirty Mac
17-10-2011, 11:19
Orcs would have been good, but my friend is buying them. i have known the guy for 15 years, one day we will swap armies for fun, so i will get to use them. and in the world of Humans vs Orcs, I have always like humans. Vampire counts and Tomb kings don't really appeal to me that much.

Oogie boogie boss
17-10-2011, 11:35
So, you don't want Dwarves, OnG, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, any other Elf army, Lizardmen, WoC, Skaven or Empire.
That doesn't leave a lot. I'm not going to suggest Ogres, as i have a thing about that army being too much of a 'power gamer' force, though i'm sure many will disagree.
How about Beastmen? Still different from DE, tough, good unit choice, good selection of monsters and some 'randomness', and personally i like the models. Often underrated as well.

Dirty Mac
17-10-2011, 11:52
Hey guys Thanks for all the information. I think i will take a closer look at The Empire.
Ogres look good, but we have 2 guys in our circle that have started them, and the guy play every Sunday has High Elves and has started to collect Orcs. One guy i met has basically all of them, so he might lend me his empire if i ask nicely.

Thanks for all the help.

Sorry you must have missed it, I said that I will take a closer look at The Empire.

Oogie boogie boss
17-10-2011, 12:08
Ah, my bad. Empire would be a good army as well, and another one i would say is underrated. Lot's of people think that Empire is a 'Jack-of-all-trades' kinda army, but i think it can be one of the strongest of armies out there for good generals due to it's versatility. There's nothing wacky about them, but they have strength in all areas: Movement, Magic, Shooting, Combat.
Definately a viable alternative.
It would be nice to see some more Beast armies though. :D

Dirty Mac
17-10-2011, 15:38
Yeah i am thinking that too, Mortars and Cannons, A bit of a regimented feel to it.
a bit like the Kings army from the 1400's or some such.

dwarfhold13
18-10-2011, 02:41
my only gripe about empire is that it will get expensive quick.. but then again.. units of 40 special troops in any army gets expensive.
beautiful armies when they are done though!

Rogue
18-10-2011, 19:13
my only gripe about empire is that it will get expensive quick.. but then again.. units of 40 special troops in any army gets expensive.
beautiful armies when they are done though!

That only depends upon the tolerance with other manufacturers in the rest of the group. If no one would care, I would take a look at the historical manufacturers instead of GW. They are on average one third to one half of what you would pay for similar GW models.

@OP: Dwarves have depth, however you need to think outside of the box to make them very dangerous. They do have strengths in core troops, good characters still, home made magic items, and magic defense; in addition to shooting. Their major weekness is lack of cav, magic offense, and some manuverability issues. However calvary is not what it used to be, and who really cares if you get the charge now a days since Dwarves will be hitting last anyways with a full compliment. My two cents.

dimetri1
19-10-2011, 01:41
Have you thought about Daemons?

Dirty Mac
19-10-2011, 03:20
I saw my friends Chaos Warriors army and they look awesome. I fought a 1500pt battle against Dwarf yesterday with my Dark Elves, and my only real casualty was the hydra.
He conceded at the bottom of turn 3. I have been doing some thinking and I decided that if i wanted a diverse army that has everything ( except arty) and is strong in a lot of phases and can have a variety of different lists then I am already using them.

It's not that much of a worry for me that WoC don't really shoot. Maybe i could run a themed list or something with them, try to make them fluffy or something for a change. I just think they look awesome.

dwarfhold13
19-10-2011, 05:02
I like the look of WoC just didn't want to start a new army from something I didn't own yet.. plus I had the idea of doing the all mounted Khorn army and now small units of cav are just about pointless with a few exceptions, so that nixed that idea :(

Dirty Mac
19-10-2011, 07:30
I still haven't fielded my Dark elf cold ones yet, Maybe when i get that 3000pt game going I'll run a block of 10 or 12.