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View Full Version : What Lores to use with HE?



agurus1
18-10-2011, 21:35
So I'm planning on running teclis and 2 level 2 mages and wondering what lores I should stick on them. I'm thinking Life for Teclis, Shadow for one of the level 2's (with an item that allows him to chose spells), and death for the last one. thoughts?

Morax
18-10-2011, 21:44
Don't run 2 level 2's with teclis. One will undoubtably be wasted points as Teclis will eat the greater majority of power dice you have available in any one phase. A level 2 shadow mage with the seer staff is a good back up to a lore of life teclis. Take enfeebiling foe and either pit of shades or withering. Okkams is just a little too hard to cast at an 18+ for a level 2 in my book and with the withering you are often wounding on 2's with spearmen anyway.

Guardian of the Shrine
18-10-2011, 23:03
I have been running an archmage with the lore of metal and 2 level 2's with shadow and life and a mage knight with beasts.
Metal allows my army to deal with 2+ save units, the buffs and hexs increase the survivability of the units and should increase their number of kills, and the sixth spell is good for dealing with any horde/deathstar as it can be used on any army without a loss of effectiveness as it does not rely on a particular stat.
But if you are facing an army with lower armour saves then it will be less effective, but even against Orcs and Goblins I have still found it to be very useful.
Life and shadow are mainly used for the buffs and hexs rather than the damage potential as the damage spells are not going to be reliably cast by a level 2.
With the low casting values across the lores most spells could potentialy be cast on a single dice, increasing the chances of getting a few spells through.
Beasts is there mainly to use wyssan's wildform on my swordmaster and prince unit.

agurus1
19-10-2011, 00:25
so no High Magic I take it?

@ Morax, I was under the impression that Death Spells would add dice to the current pool , and add the moonstaff, and banner of sorcery thats already +2D3 to my casting pool. Plan is to cast with teclis and level two, leaving death for last and hoping to generate some extra dice by sniping unit champs, banners, or heros.

Francis
19-10-2011, 06:58
so no High Magic I take it?

High Magic is a excellent lore with low casting values and I always try to fit a mage with it in my lists. It is a great defensive lore with Shield of Saphery and Drain magic as well as a decent offensive lore with Fury of Khaine (for small units) and flames of the phoenix (horde killer at low casting value). Do I need to mention what Vaul's Unmaking does to a Pendant DE character? :D

agurus1
19-10-2011, 07:39
ok so hero wise for 2500, what load out would you all recommend? I'm using teclis as a lord, and I want at least one noble as a BSB.

laseriv13
19-10-2011, 11:10
Thanks..for..the..info.

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Guardian of the Shrine
19-10-2011, 14:01
The standard BSB builds are normaly great weapon, armour of caledor and the dawnstone (for armies with lots of low stength attacks) or the guardian pheonix (if there are lots of high strength attacks). I think it is better to have the AoC and DS combo for strength 5 and below and AoC and the GP for strength 7 and above, at strength 6 there is no difference both are 2x 5+ saves. Another common one is to give him the banner of the world dragon and puit him in a pheonix guard (about 25, with full command and the banner of sorcery) bunker with Teclis to prevent them being affect by magic. This leaves the BSB exposed as the best he can have then is a 5+ save, but the aim is to not get the unit in combat and the champion is there to deal with challenges. (I think, have never played with this unit).
I currently am running mine with a great weapon, armour of silvered steel (AoC on Prince) and the ironcurse icon in a unit of 40 spearmen (8x5). But giving him the AoC frees up 20 pts for what ever you fancy. Don't give him the Other trickster's shard as the unit would have to re-roll all the saves from the ironcurse icon, which is counter productive.

For a level 2 I would give them the annulian crystal (I played a game of storm of magic and because of this item I had more dispel dice than he had power dice) and can really affect the way your opponent uses his power dice as the pools become more balanced. The Jewel of the Dusk is useful if you are taking a second level 2 but the annulain crystal is more effective and if you take the banner of sorcery then you wont miss it unless there is some bad rolling.

At 2,500 pts I would just take Teclis, the battle standard and one level 2.

Francis
19-10-2011, 17:05
At 2,500 pts I would just take Teclis, the battle standard and one level 2.

Agreed. If you insist on taking Teclis then the only other mage you bring should be a lvl 2. I would use High magic on him and add Annulian Crystal since that will effectively lock down your oponent's magic phase.

popisdead
19-10-2011, 22:08
You should really be thinking about lores when you are building your list. So much of 8th ed is hex/augment you will want to keep those in mind while choosing which units to take.

You should also consider things you will fight and how to deal with them. Do you have something flaming to deal with 1-2 HPAs?

Another option is looking at what lores to take when you are fighting certain armies. Lore of Metal is good vs Warrior heavy WoC armies and not as good vs Beastmen.

Mercules
19-10-2011, 23:03
Shadow, just far to good with HE.

Lord Shadowheart
20-10-2011, 00:03
Lore of light is my favoured Lore for H. elves. A lot of people I play have silly amounts of war machines or weapon teams, big version of pha's protection helps big time. Then theres buffing the entire army to ws10 and combining with pha's, a lot of stuff hitting me on 6's. Theres always the double the armies movement too, for that 2nd turn charge :)

Guardian of the Shrine
20-10-2011, 00:09
I would give Teclis shadow rather than life. It is a better all round lore with good hexes and damage out put. On the level 2 I would give metal or life ,depending on what armies you are facing, as the lower casting values mean that a level 2 should be able to cast all the spells in the lore, apart from dwellers, on 3 dice quite easily.

Arthanor
20-10-2011, 14:13
Also, doesn't Teclis ignore his first miscast every magic phase? It makes it possible to throw lots of dice without at any spells, whereas the otter mage would probably be happy to ignore potential miscasts on a 2+.

Guardian of the Shrine
20-10-2011, 14:44
He does. I would not give Throne of vines to the level 2 as I find Throne of vines is only really useful when the caster has access to at least 4/5 spells from the lore as it is harder for your opponent to know what spell to dispel and makes the most of the boosts given by Throne of vines. Also with Teclis in the army the level 2 is not going to have many dice to play with which would be better used used on 2 other spells rather than throne of vines as your opponent can just let the Throne of vines through and dispell the second spell which is the one you want to get through.

Morax
20-10-2011, 19:56
so no High Magic I take it?

@ Morax, I was under the impression that Death Spells would add dice to the current pool , and add the moonstaff, and banner of sorcery thats already +2D3 to my casting pool. Plan is to cast with teclis and level two, leaving death for last and hoping to generate some extra dice by sniping unit champs, banners, or heros.

Yes death spells add dice to the pool and yeah you will have 2d6+2d3 for power dice off the get go. You will however want to throw 4 dice at just about any spell Teclis casts as you have an solid chance at doubles on 4 dice. That eats up power dice quickly as with only casting 2 spells would eat 8. The other reason for not taking that 3rd caster is that after you cast one IR spell with Teclis you are now behind the 8 ball as your opponent will most likely have more dispel dice then you have powerdice. You either at this point keep casting with Teclis or have to throw even more dice at spells to get through the dispel attempts. On a side note, only purple sun has a decent chance of producing ample ammounts of additional power dice in the lore of death.


I would give Teclis shadow rather than life. It is a better all round lore with good hexes and damage out put. On the level 2 I would give metal or life ,depending on what armies you are facing, as the lower casting values mean that a level 2 should be able to cast all the spells in the lore, apart from dwellers, on 3 dice quite easily.

Shadow is a nice lore to pair with high elves but life is equally nice and has a better catch all spell in dwellers. Nothing likes taking a test or die spell in the face and who better to cast that then the man that IR's on crack?

I put shadow on the level 2 to pair with Teclis. Throw a hex or two before Teclis gets to work and your opponent will be faced with more hard choices. Does he save the dice to try to stop Teclis in the event that he doesn't IR or does he go for the hexes and Teclis be damned? If he goes for the first route you can drop 6 dice on a Teclis spell and get the one you really need off, nothing says ouch like dwellers below on a unit already effected by enfeebiling foe. If he goes with the second route, Teclis can pair back on the dice he throws at each spell to get more of them off as Teclis can get almost every spell in the lore of life off on 3 dice and your opponent has already used up his defense. Win/win for the high elves.

GenerationTerrorist
20-10-2011, 22:42
I'll throw in some love for High Magic. I still regularly use it on my Lvl2 with Seerstaff.
Life and Shadow are my two main Lores, though.

agurus1
20-10-2011, 23:56
Ok so life on teclis and shadow on level 2. Should I go for a Killy noble then instead of the extra Mage? Or maybe use those points for two small units of sword masters?

Oh and for the shadow, mindrazor is an obvious choice, show I take enfeeblement as the other spell?

Guardian of the Shrine
22-10-2011, 00:02
I would take swordmasters instead of the extra noble as your battle standard can be kitted out to to be very offensive.
I would give your level 2 miasma (sig spell)as it is able to reduce the number of hits a unit takes potentially in multiple phases and by casting flesh to stone on the unit facing the unit you would cast enfeebling on has the same effect and Teclis is more likely to get FtS off than the L2 casting enfeebling .
Also it can be cast on a single dice as it effectivly a 3+ to cast by adding the wizard level to it, which is handy as your level 2 is not going to have many dice to play with as you will want Teclis to be casting the majority of his spells each turn.

Francis
22-10-2011, 09:35
Take the swordmasters since you will always need more boots on the ground and a killy HE noble isn't really that killy.

cabowers
23-10-2011, 20:25
Just as a point with Teclis, because he chooses which lore he will use at the start of the game means you don't have to choose it until you see what army you facing.

Your opponent has Chaos Warriors - lore of metal please

What that is an undead/demon army - lore of light thank you

Your army appears to have lots of things that can fly - Heavens my good sir

And so on and so on.

Morax
25-10-2011, 15:52
Ok so life on teclis and shadow on level 2. Should I go for a Killy noble then instead of the extra Mage? Or maybe use those points for two small units of sword masters?

Oh and for the shadow, mindrazor is an obvious choice, show I take enfeeblement as the other spell?

The units of sword masters will out preform a noble every time.

I wouldn't take mindrazor as a lock so quickly if i were you. Casting on such a high casting value can suck up dice quickly particularly when you are using your level 2. You would need a 16 to get your spell off, an average of 5 dice to get that. Granted you can almost garentee 12 per phase but 5 is still quite hefty for one spell.
-The withering can make a large impact on a unit allowing units like spearmen and archers to wound on 2's. Sure he will still get saves but just by forcing him to take more of them you will see a large damage increase.
-Enfeebling can make a unit extremely hard to kill. Chaos warriors at str 1 wounding elves on 6's makes any pointy-ear laugh. This also pairs nicely with a well timed dwellers from teclis. Nothing like watching a chosen star taking 40 str1 tests and there being only 6 of them left.
-Miasma is IMO the best hex in the game. One casting can make a foot unit M1 changing a battleplan completely. Hitting elves on 5's also makes them extra drurable as with one casting a unit can be droped to ws2.
-Pit of Shades is one of the only ways the elves have of dealing with super hard to kill targets like a warsphinx or a steam tank. Combined with miasma however and it becomes a horribly effective damage spell against just about everything. Chosenstars, Kiaros, regenerating graveguard, Gutstars, even the unkillable DE lord feels the burn when miasma'd to lower his initiative and then pitted.

The lore of shadow is one of the most versitile lores in the game. I wouldn't treat any spell in there as a garenteed lock. Look at your army list, identify its shortcommings, compensate accordingly.

Dark Reaper
25-10-2011, 18:24
How exactly does the DE lord suffer from miasma and then pit? He is initiative 8.

Morax
25-10-2011, 21:51
Hmm going from memory thought he was lower, my mistake. Him aside then.