PDA

View Full Version : Question about a Terrorgeist's deathshriek



PurpleSun
22-10-2011, 16:44
Is the deathshriek only usable on the Vampire Count's turn, or can it be used on its opponent's turn also? It just says that it is a special attack used during the shooting phase, and that it can be used in hand-to-hand.

If I am not mistaken, if you want to use your breath weapon in close combat on your opponent's turn, you can do it.

Could this be extrapolated to say that the Terrorgeist gets to use his deathshriek during his opponent's shooting phase, even if the Terrorgeist is not in close combat?

Edit: Just looked in the BRB on breath weapons, and it says that the model can use its breath weapon during its shooting phase, not the shooting phase, as it says with the deathshreik.

theunwantedbeing
22-10-2011, 17:07
I'm going to say no, you can't shoot in the other guys shooting phase.

Gazak Blacktoof
22-10-2011, 17:08
As a rule of thumb the only times you can attack during your opponent's turn are to stand and shoot and in close combat. Anything else has to have a specific allowance in order to allow you to do so as it isn't part of the general rules.

I would certainly say, only during the owning player's shooting phase.

Korraz
22-10-2011, 19:14
You can only shoot during your shooting phase.
Don't try to Rules Lawyer. Rules Lawyering makes little Manfred cry.

PurpleSun
23-10-2011, 00:08
You can only shoot during your shooting phase.
Don't try to Rules Lawyer. Rules Lawyering makes little Manfred cry.

I'm not trying to rules lawyer, I do not play Vampire Counts, but I play against them. The Deathshriek is nasty, I am just trying to understand its limitations.

Athlan na Dyr
23-10-2011, 00:38
Its a shooting attack with the added bonus that it can be fired after marching, charging or when engaged in Close Combat. As with any other shooting attack, it cannot be fired in the opponents turn (with the exception for stand and shoot, and I'm not 100% sure a terrorgheist can stand and shoot....)

So, in answer to your question, only in the controlling player's turn.

Yrrdead
23-10-2011, 01:37
I wouldn't classify it as a shooting attack. Rather a special attack that occurs during the owner's shooting phase.

Athlan na Dyr does bring up the SnS issue which is rather valid not just for the Terrorgheist but also for the hero Banshee. Though this seems to be more of an error in editing but it is what it is. As currently written neither of these models may make a stand and shoot reaction.

PurpleSun
23-10-2011, 01:58
I wouldn't classify it as a shooting attack. Rather a special attack that occurs during the owner's shooting phase.

Athlan na Dyr does bring up the SnS issue which is rather valid not just for the Terrorgheist but also for the hero Banshee. Though this seems to be more of an error in editing but it is what it is. As currently written neither of these models may make a stand and shoot reaction.

BRB Page 17 "Obviously, a Stand and Shoot reaction can only be declared if the unit has missile weapons of some kind."

I don't think a breath weapon or a deathshriek counts as a missile weapon, so they should not be able to SnS unless it specifically makes an exception saying they can, like the Wood Elf book does for the Treeman's strangleroot attack.

eron12
23-10-2011, 03:01
BRB Page 17 "Obviously, a Stand and Shoot reaction can only be declared if the unit has missile weapons of some kind."

I don't think a breath weapon or a deathshriek counts as a missile weapon, so they should not be able to SnS unless it specifically makes an exception saying they can, like the Wood Elf book does for the Treeman's strangleroot attack.

That's why it's an error in editing, because the Tomb Banshee (unit champion) can make a stand and shoot, but as currently written the Tomb Banshee (hero) cannot.

Zoolander
23-10-2011, 17:10
That's why it's an error in editing, because the Tomb Banshee (unit champion) can make a stand and shoot, but as currently written the Tomb Banshee (hero) cannot.

The tomb banshee Hero is just like the unit champion and CAN stand and shoot. I would assume (not having read anything about the terrorgheist) that his shriek works similarly to the banshee's, and that he can stand and shoot too, but I'd have to read it first to make sure. This is just speculation.

Nedar
24-10-2011, 19:27
Actually, the Hero banshee is NOT "just like" the champion banshee. Each has one is it's own entity, each one has it's own wording on it's shriek. The only they have in common are the actual names...though for all intensive purposes they are two different model's with two different abilities. Oddly, of all three shrieking units: only the Banshee champion can stand and shoot.

In fact, the champion banshee can shriek w/o LoS while the Hero can not...she must see her target.

As such: the Banshee(hero) and Terrorgeist have similar shout rules. Neither can Stand and Shoot, both require LoS, both can be used after moving, marching, or charging.

The main question is if you can use Inspiring Presence against the attack. The Tomb Banshee (champion) shriek specifically states you are able while the new shrieks do not (of course the champion rule was written under 7th). I'm guessing yes since GW want's generals' leadership to count for absolutely everything these days.

Feefait
25-10-2011, 00:17
Is a terrogheists shots randomized if shifting into combat? Ex ghouls + gheist v. A unit of clanrats. If the gheist shoots can he hit the ghouls as well? Not sure if its 'hits distributed as per shooting' or not.

Nedar
25-10-2011, 00:21
No, he selects a target. The only thing is that, unlike most shooting attacks, he CAN fire in combat. But only a unit he's fighting. You don't randomize in the combat, just shoot at targeted unit in combat with you.

RanaldLoec
25-10-2011, 00:23
Is a terrogheists shots randomized if shifting into combat? Ex ghouls + gheist v. A unit of clanrats. If the gheist shoots can he hit the ghouls as well? Not sure if its 'hits distributed as per shooting' or not.

Do the rules for hellshriek say yoy can shoot into a combat your not part of?

If they don't then no you can't I believe you can only hellshriek in combat vs a unit that is engaged with the unit, character or monster that has hellshriek.

I may be wrong.

Lex
25-10-2011, 15:15
The only thing is that, unlike most shooting attacks, he CAN fire in combat. But only a unit he's fighting.

Actually, the Terrorgheist's rules say that it "may" target the unit it is in combat with. There is no requirement that it do so. It can target anything in range and LoS.

a18no
25-10-2011, 17:36
Actually, the Terrorgheist's rules say that it "may" target the unit it is in combat with. There is no requirement that it do so. It can target anything in range and LoS.

May target the unit you're in close don't mean that you can target unit you are not in close.

Remember: the only thing you have a line of sight when in close is the unit you are in close with.

belgarath97
26-10-2011, 00:12
Actually, the Hero banshee is NOT "just like" the champion banshee. Each has one is it's own entity, each one has it's own wording on it's shriek. The only they have in common are the actual names...though for all intensive purposes they are two different model's with two different abilities. Oddly, of all three shrieking units: only the Banshee champion can stand and shoot.


I am always intense with my purpose. :shifty:

JK:evilgrin:

For all intents and purposes, I agree that as currently written the hero and champion are not the same. I also think that is GW either doing a bad job lining things up, of giving a precursor to the new VC that is rumored to be coming.

As for the shriek, no I would not use the wording to interpret that I can do that in my opponents turn, and frankly wouldn't want to play someone who tried it. Oh I play VC btw.

PS. I couldn't help myself. Please don't be offended.

Lex
26-10-2011, 13:34
Remember: the only thing you have a line of sight when in close is the unit you are in close with.

What page is that? I don't remember seeing that rule.

Zoolander
26-10-2011, 20:06
Actually, the Hero banshee is NOT "just like" the champion banshee. Each has one is it's own entity, each one has it's own wording on it's shriek. The only they have in common are the actual names...though for all intensive purposes they are two different model's with two different abilities. Oddly, of all three shrieking units: only the Banshee champion can stand and shoot.

In fact, the champion banshee can shriek w/o LoS while the Hero can not...she must see her target.

As such: the Banshee(hero) and Terrorgeist have similar shout rules. Neither can Stand and Shoot, both require LoS, both can be used after moving, marching, or charging.

The main question is if you can use Inspiring Presence against the attack. The Tomb Banshee (champion) shriek specifically states you are able while the new shrieks do not (of course the champion rule was written under 7th). I'm guessing yes since GW want's generals' leadership to count for absolutely everything these days.

I'd say they have a LOT more in common than that, but thanks for overeaggerating to prove a point. In fact, after reading the white dwarf, the only thing they have in difference is the 5pt cost difference and the exact wording on the howl. Other than that, they're identical. The banshee howl works the same for inspiring presence. Yes opponents can use it. I'm pretty confident the idea behind the hero wasn't to create some new hero choice with a different set of rules from the rare choice. I'm sure she was created to give players more options with the banshee. I bet the article was simply poorly written. But I could be wrong.

Also, the terrorgheist does not need LOS when he's in combat. It explicitly states he may target any unit in base contact. Hopefully when the VC book comes out this can all be normalized.